POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 30 May 2018, 03:41

Or even are we attacking him at all? The government departments are so understaffed that they are all well behind on their work.... Everything takes longer than it should....... See my post on HMRC in Public Service cuts.
Grenfell is throwing up more and more criticisms..... Fire doors that weren't efficient, response times on the day being terrible. Expect more as the enquiry digs deeper.
Meanwhile Italy gets everyone's attention. You all know the story so I am not going to repeat it. What interests me is that expert commentators are all saying the same thing, apart from internal faults in Italy like debt being so high, the root of the problem is that after the Greek problem the EU has done nothing effective to address the major flaw, the fact that the Euro Project was started before the political infrastructure was in place to make it viable. There are real fears that Italy could be a major problem. The markets have reacted immediately.
Ruth Davison the Scottish leader of the Tories is in the news again offering advice to T May.... There is more than a hint of a leadership bid here!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 30 May 2018, 07:03

Back to Roman Abramovich, It sounds a bit incredible that we can delay his ongoing visa application because of our own bureaucratic incompetence. He is one of the world's richest men, an adviser to President Putin, and a former governor of Chukotka. This is pure politics with possibly America pulling the strings. Being Jewish he has obtained a visa via Israel to come to the UK using the the agreed protocol. Our response is 'but he can't do any business'. This looks very much like a vendetta action.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 31 May 2018, 03:05

Sorry P but I have very little interest in his woes.... The Scottish government announcing that they were ending 'Period Poverty' by giving free sanitary products to all low income families is far more interesting. Sensible and practical policy that can do nothing but good at a ridiculously low cost. Well done!
I see that Grayling is blaming the time table cock-up which is creating havoc with commuters and extends even to the Northern Powerhouse. Typical, blame someone else. But hang on a minute who was it that managed the systems that have failed?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 31 May 2018, 07:00

Stanley this isn't about Abramovich per se, but about the start of a new cold war being launched by the West on Russia. The Ukraine have jumped on the band wagon by reporting that one of the anti Putin journalists has been murdered by Putin's henchmen. To prove their point the 'Victim' held a press conference the following day! Link.. How much fake news do you want? Read any recent history events in Russia and you will see the Oligarchs with their private armies are at the root of Putin's troubles. These men are dangerous and set out to upset the political equilibrium for their own ends and profit. Eventually we may even get to know what really happened to the Skripals.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 01 Jun 2018, 03:45

I think you know that I understand all that P. Sorry for not expressing myself more clearly. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about things that I have no influence over. My personal opinion is that all these matters, think 'Cold War', 'War on terror' etc., are intended to to foster a climate of fear in the general population and allow policies to be pursued that otherwise would seem ridiculous. Of course this could be entirely the wrong attitude and I accept that but it's my best shot! The biggest 'false news' is the items in plain sight. Think Brexit, Austerity and the 2008 credit crunch..... Who benefited from those? Certainly not the mass of the population. Sorry if my priorities are wrong......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 01 Jun 2018, 11:58

Stanley I think you are underestimating yourself. We may not be in a position to pull any strings ourselves but by putting our views forward people may start thinking about it and hopefully discussing it. At the end of all this the result could be that we are totally wrong but then we have learnt something. My latest concerns are Trump's attitude towards Iran and Russia. Both big energy suppliers to the World in both oil and gas. Actions which cause uncertainty to the market will push up the prices. The big oil companies will make a bomb. Oil prices will influence other domestic prices upwards and if by magic the GDP will increase as a result giving rise to the claim that we must be doing better. And we all know that according to current mythology if GDP increases your wages must have increased so why do you need any more money to offset inflation. At least if we let the politicians know that we know what's going on they may change tack.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 01 Jun 2018, 15:34

plaques wrote:
01 Jun 2018, 11:58
We may not be in a position to pull any strings ourselves but by putting our views forward people may start thinking about it and hopefully discussing it.
That's right, Plaques. And it's like the argument on voting - people say `My vote isn't enough to make a difference' but in reality it's the only thing that can make a difference. If we want things changing we have to say so whether it's through the vote or by the written word. Where I stayed in Cornwall last week I was in walking distance of the birth place of activist and chartist leader William Lovett (1800-1877). Lovett He was against using violence or the threat of violence to bring about political change but did his utmost in other ways, like promoting his slogan `No vote, no musket' - if the government expects men to fight for the country then it should give them the vote.

There was a very long, detailed article in small font about Trump in The Times on Saturday. It was an analysis of what drives him and how he will behave in politics. It all comes down to the last paragraph which says that Trump has one aim - to be seen to be the one who wins the deal, to the extent that he will abandon an agreement so that he can then be seen to rescue it. He'll even set up deals so he can knock them down. And the biggest thing for him at the moment is to destroy anything Obama set up.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 02 Jun 2018, 02:48

Of course you are both right...... That Times article is right on the button as well, Trump is at heart a racist and hates Obama, he is trying to erase all evidence of his legacy but in the end the historians will make the assessment and I'm afraid Mr Trump will be seen for what he is, a bull in a china shop. Trouble is of course we have them in spades here in the present government and look where they are taking us.....
Have a look at THIS tongue in cheek report on Jacob Rees Mogg....
I can't resist it..... Grayling once more demonstrates his grasp of political management (or lack of it). The railway timetable scandal gets worse and there are calls for him to accept responsibility and resign.... Fat chance! Am I being unfair or does this man really leave a trail of destruction behind him in his ministerial career?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 02 Jun 2018, 08:53

I like the Moggle article but, sadly, I think the information in it will enhance the hero-worship of his supporters. It's everything they'd like to be.

David Milliband on `Today' this morning said he didn't rule out returning to politics. He's another of the increasing band of people willing to speak sense on Brexit. If he were the Labour leader we'd have a much better idea of where they stand with their views on Brexit. He got lots of cheers from the live audience at the Hay Festival for his comments on Brexit being our biggest crisis since 1945 and he was vocal on the fact that Brexit is distracting the government from dealing with the very issues that caused many people to vote Leave.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 03 Jun 2018, 03:04

It's very easy to talk common sense on Brexit as we all know but we have a government that has lost the plot and can't see how ridiculous their policies are. Trouble is that instead of making it a cross party decision they are going it alone on the grounds they are our elected government and have a mandate.... Could there be something wrong with the system?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 03 Jun 2018, 08:18

Just started on a book 'On the Psychology of Military Incompetence'. (Norman Dixon).
Basically outlining that most of our 'Great' military failures were down to , Pride, Incompetence and self interest. At every point those in charge would ensure the orders they gave, if any, were incomprehensible or that they could pass the blame to someone else when failure occurred. Does this sound familiar?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 03 Jun 2018, 09:24

George Soros is one Remainer who at least is willing to say we need a second referendum rather than bottling out and only supporting a Soft Brexit. He supports Gina Miller's Best for Britain campaign. It's no surprise that both of them have been faced with a lot of abuse, Miller for not being white, caucasian and male, Soros for being a Jew, and both for being anti-Brexit. Soros has been frequently wrongly accused of having been a Nazi too.

All this abuse seems to have gone into overdrive since the EU Referendum and Trump's elevation to POTUS. We see more anger in everyday life too. On our way back from Cornwall we stopped at the services on the A30. On returning to our car we heard shouting and noticed it was young woman in a parked car. At first it sounded as if she was being attacked but then we saw she was shouting into her phone. She was tearing a strip off someone and seemed to have totally lost control. Her shouting was more like screaming and it was full of effing and blinding. I've rarely seen anyone in such a lather. If there had been a security man around I'd have asked him to visit the car, partly to stop everyone else (kids included) having to hear her screams and foul language but also to point out she wasn't fit to drive that car when she was in such a state. It's this sort of person who seems to feel, since the Referendum, that they have the upper hand and are now allowed to behave as badly as they wish.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 03 Jun 2018, 13:08

Tizer wrote:
03 Jun 2018, 09:24
It's this sort of person who seems to feel, since the Referendum, that they have the upper hand and are now allowed to behave as badly as they wish.
Really? Personally I don't see the connection.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 04 Jun 2018, 03:31

"Really? Personally I don't see the connection." I can Tiz. It's the same mind-set that rails against the EU and all its works and blames everything they don't agree with on being in the EU. Distinguished mainly by being totally self-centred..... Remind you of anyone?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 04 Jun 2018, 11:45

Its the old problem of cause and effect. In general we appear to be going through a phase where 'in your face' intimidation is the accepted norm. Think Jeremy Kyle show, News paper headlines, so and so gets SMASHED over some minor difference of opinion. Facial tattoos. Road rage, approach junctions at high speed, don't use your indicators. All designed to intimidate. Did the referendum cause this change? No I don't think so. Did it give non-thinkers opportunity to mouth off? Probably yes. Having said all this I still can't understand why some people supposedly of intelligence will twitter some bigoted statement as though they are invisible to the rest of the world.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 05 Jun 2018, 03:04

Perhaps the basic problem is incompetence. People trying to function above their pay grade. (Or late night booze?)
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 06 Jun 2018, 04:03

Many commentators believe that T May's sudden interest in the Heathrow third runway is an attempt to demonstrate that she is in control of the Cabinet. She could be on a sticky wicket as this has been a bone of contention for years, remember Boris saying he would do an Arthur Dent and lie down in front of the bulldozers?
Meanwhile.... Brexit is not only stalled but in danger of being derailed in Parliament as the Lords amendments are debated. Fuel prices are rocketing under the influence of 'Events Dear Boy' and the weak Pound. All the public services are in potential melt-down. Make your own list up! On any assessment this is not an effective government, my question is how much longer can this go on before the situation implodes?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 06 Jun 2018, 07:05

Fuel prices rocketing and the £ sinking isn't this GOOD news? A bit of inflation means that prices are going up to counteract the surge in spending because of higher wage settlements. The drop in the £ will mean that we can export more to places like America and the EU that is providing the £ drops below the new tariff surcharges that are on the cards because of Trump's trade war and the extra WTO tariffs that will come into being on exit from the EU. Result even more inflation. When will all this good news stop?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 07 Jun 2018, 04:15

You are much better at Irony than I am P. Many would see eminent common sense in what you say and that would include a lot of politicians..... I am reminded of the 'Cloakroom analogy' in the 1920s and Mrs T's 'Shopping Basket'. I'm afraid my acid test is to ask myself whether the most deprived in society will see anything to cheer about.
I am confused at the moment, T May says that the Brexiteer's proposals on a modified customs union will be sent to Brussels today. Mr Davies in a press conference yesterday seemed to be under the impression he was in meetings today to finalise the strategy. Are they talking to each other?
Laura Kuenssberg put her finger on it last night. She said that the 'fudge period' was past. Circumstances are going to force the government to make up its mind and go public. We may then be able to judge whether we have any chance at all of an orderly Brexit. On the present evidence I doubt it, we seem to be still in what has become known as 'cake land'. Looking at other current pressures on the EU there is no way they can allow a renegade state to get away with leaving but retaining benefits. They have to operate what T May herself described as a 'hostile policy' when she was at the Home Office and facing the same problem in connection with migrants. What was sauce for the goose may turn out to be sauce for the gander..... Of course, as she is now on the receiving end of this mind set all she can do is describe it as vindictive. Stand by for an eruption of indignation......
Later..... May v. Davies is the big news this morning.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 07 Jun 2018, 10:45

I know I keep repeating myself but I still believe that we'll remain in the EU because we'll find that Brexit is simply not possible without the UK either suffering total collapse or ending up with the prospect of a post-Brexit scenario that is so close to EU membership that it's not worth continuing with the project. The history books will refer to the `lost two years of Brexit fever' and all the damage that it caused for no benefit except proving that representative democracy is better than populist democracy.

We were visited a few days ago by Alan Wedderkopp, a LibDem councillor for Somerset, and it was interesting to find how much of his beliefs match what we write on OGFB. He's 86 years old but bright as a button and has travelled the world. Although he worked in the oil industry he has been deeply concerned about climate change for many years. He regards the present government as the worst he has ever seen in the UK. I don't need to say what his opinion of Trump is! He regards leaving the EU as a terrible decision and agrees that we should have stayed in and worked to make improvements to the way the EU is run. And we were on exactly the same wavelength when he said `You and I can see so many things going wrong - why can't others see this too, especially those in charge of running the country?'

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 08 Jun 2018, 03:39

I hope you are right Tiz.....
As for Alan Wedderkopp and his agreement with us.... I believe the answer is that of course most of the politicians agree with us but everything they say on the subject is modified by self-interest and political considerations, they are not interested in what is best for the country.
Yesterday was a good day for the Brexiteers, they forced T May to back down and they are cock a hoop because they believe that they are prevailing and forcing us into Hard Brexit which is what they want either because they have dreams of empire or because financially the wealthy will make a killing.
Like you, I believe that a combination of Brexit and Austerity is ensuring that the lot of the ordinary people is going to be forced back into the 19th century and this is just what the Tory dinosaurs wanted. Playing fields of Eton and all that crap.....
Increasingly it looks as though our salvation, if it ever happens, could be triggered by the leadership struggle in the Tory Party. If a naked bid for power by any of the usual suspects triggers an election it might just be that this triggers a general revolt against the shambles we are faced with now. God alone knows what EU politicians think when they look at the UK at the moment......
05:25. If you weren't worried enough, see THIS BBC report posted 15 minutes ago about a leaked clandestine recording of Bojo dropping pearls of wisdom after a private dinner..... This man could be a candidate for PM.......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 08 Jun 2018, 08:42

Stanley wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 03:39
If you weren't worried enough, see THIS BBC report posted 15 minutes ago about a leaked clandestine recording of Bojo dropping pearls of wisdom after a private dinner..... This man could be a candidate for PM.......
I imagine there were many instances in the US when people said about Trump `This man could be a candidate for President.......'. And now he is President. We live in a strange world!

With all the fuss and fighting over Brexit there's an issue that doesn't seem to be mentioned. If we want to exit the EU by negotiating a good deal, why are those chosen to lead the Brexit project all people who hate the EU? Surely the logical and sensible approach would be to use people who understand and respect the EU, who can rub along smoothly with the EU negotiators and have their respect, who aren't frightened of `Johnny Foreigner'? But perhaps I'm just naive! :smile:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 09 Jun 2018, 03:18

Or even create the Brexit equivalent of the War Cabinet of 1940..... You and I both advocated that way back......
I see T May was reduced to clichés again in Montreal when the Bojo Effect followed her there. Doesn't she realise that the defences used in PMQs don't work in the real world?
As we near the equivalent of Political Armageddon siren voices are heard telling us to ignore the details, we have to go through a period of pain to reach the broad sunlit uplands of total sovereignty and freedom to trade world wide but the end result will be some sort of Utopia. An equivalent would be to close all the supermarkets and allow private enterprise freedom to establish the corner shops again. Who do they think they are kidding?
Meanwhile, in another part of the forest..... It becomes obvious that the High Street is in dire trouble. House of Fraser is the latest casualty and if they are not safe what happens to the rest of Oxford Street? This is the recent history of High Streets all over the country writ large as it strikes at London. What's the betting on a scramble of political activity on business rates and capping rents? I heard the owner of the HofF building saying that it would make a great hotel and that the 'Hospitality Industry' is the place to be at the moment..... Cue new legislation to allow Filipino migrants preference because we need more servants.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 10 Jun 2018, 05:47

See THIS report in the Montreal Gazette about the chaotic end of the G7 summit.
What's this got to do with UK politics? Remember Harold's dictum, "Events Dear Boy!" and recognise that this has enormous implications for Brexit and the much vaunted 'Special Relationship' with the US. What price amicable trade talks now? Leaving aside the state of internal Tory politics on the 'negotiations' with the EU an alarming number of small black clouds are appearing on the horizon. Tin hats out Lads!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 10 Jun 2018, 07:16

In his opening statements Trump said that Russia should be back in the G8, remember that they were expelled by the West because they annexed the Crimea. Russia according to the West, acted illegally. Whether it was legal or illegal depends on which side you are on. A lot of experts come down on Russia's side. Crimea Putin, beside being fluent in three languages, has a degree in international law. He naturally says it was quite legal. Meanwhile Mrs May is still trying to muster support to keep them out. Eventually she will lose especially if the Skripal saga turns out to be perpetrated by the Ukrainians. Somehow at this G7 summit she has been left out of the main discussions. I wonder whether the Brexit has anything to do with it?

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