POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 23 Aug 2018, 04:02

I share your cynicism P. Any ploy available is being used to cover up the duplicity and incompetence which is slowly sucking us into the biggest political cock-up of all time. Eventually there will be a 1945 moment but not in time to prevent the damage. It may not be in my life time either!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 23 Aug 2018, 06:09

I don't normally give links to the Mail but see THIS report which is in the Sun as well and reported by the BBC. If the reports are accurate it's no wonder he has provoked a reaction. Instead of pursuing his initial demands for £20billion of new funding he appears to have lost the plot.
Should we be worried about defence? I leave that up to you lot. [Go and have a look at the state of the navy and in particular the Type 45 frigates.]
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 23 Aug 2018, 09:01

Mogg and Cable on `Today' this morning. Mogg repeating the words `Project Fear' as many times as possible and blaming the EU for everything bad. Cable being reasonable and pointing out the facts. When discussing the plans for stockpiling etc Mogg says it's Project Fear and we shouldn't worry, there won't be any problems because the EU will still want to sell stuff to us and there won't be anything to stop us selling to them. Someone should tell him it's not the intentions of the EU that are the concern, it is the need to plan for trade and regulations not functioning immediately after Brexit. Mogg is well-versed in the art of creating straw man arguments.

By the way, the Policy Editor of The Times, on 18th August, reported that figures from the Institute for Government (IFG) think tank show that the number of the most senior civil service officials in Britain has risen by 10% since preparations to leave the EU began. There are 500 more director-generals, directors and deputy-directors than in 2016. Of the grades just below senior there are an additional 5000 grade 6 and 7 officials (15% rise). The report continues: `Whitehall sources say that the rises are tiny compared with the projections for the staff who will be needed to carry out the functions now overseen by Brussels.' At the same time the numbers of civil service staff in London have been rising while those elsewhere in the UK have been falling.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 23 Aug 2018, 12:16

The government manual revealed today for guidance in the event of a no deal exit from the EU has connotations with the "duck and cover" manual issued to all households in the 80's for the threat of nuclear holocaust. That recommended hiding under a door propped against the wall with a mattress on top, about as much use as a chocolate teapot, this is no different.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 23 Aug 2018, 15:12

Once `the people' find out what Brexit has let them in for the government will be the ones `hiding under a door propped against the wall with a mattress on top'. :laugh5:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 23 Aug 2018, 17:51

With the increase in food banks and the continued austerity aimed especially against the lower orders are we heading towards a holodomor?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 23 Aug 2018, 18:51

You may have a point there Plaques, all the cards are stacking up nicely for a perfect storm incident.

I made a mistake in my earlier post on second thoughts, it was "Protect and Survive", the title designed to instil confidence in the plebs I suppose.

Protect and Survive.pdf
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 24 Aug 2018, 02:56

'Duck and cover'..... Not to be be confused with 'look, duck and vanish'.... the LDV, the forerunner of the Home Guard.
Nice one P!!
Holodomor, now there's a good word. Had to look it up!
I saw the same contrast Tiz between Mogg and Cable. I said a while since that the Brexiteers were staring to sound a bit rattled. I think they are fraying round the edges now because of a faint premonition they may have backed the wrong side. Did you note the advice to anyone wanting to trade with Ireland? "Contact the Irish Government"!
News from the Labour Party this morning that won't be writ large in the right wing media, Labour has a higher income now from member's subs than the Tories have from their rich donors. No wonder they have told Aaron Banks to piss off!
On a 'Protect and Survive' point. Schooled well by my mother I have always had well stocked food cupboards. I shall be paying particular attention to that from now on! It's always a good thing to assume worst case and we may have to adopt siege mentality.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 24 Aug 2018, 06:33

Walking is good for thinking..... I don't think this is off piste because it relates to the possibility of glitches in the supply chain on Brexit. I suspect that the majority of ingredients in fast food is imported. What will the effect of Brexit be on them? Given that we now have a 'just eat' generation who have a JIT attitude to food and no stocks at home what are the chances of them running into problems?
Listening to the current news of reactions in the Westminster Village I can't help getting the impression that a lot of headless chickens are running round. Such is the calibre of our leaders!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 24 Aug 2018, 09:21

Re your comment on members' subs, I also heard them say that the Tories now get more donations from dead members than from live ones! And that reminds me of the fact that ONS stats show that by - I think it was 2025 or thereabouts - another EU Referendum would be a Remain win because of the changed demographics, i.e. many oldie leavers will have...well, left altogether! Mind you, I'm a bit sceptical of that claim because it assumes that future oldies will like the EU more than present oldies. We might find that it's not like that and the younger generations will simply take on the same attitudes and beliefs as the present older generations. But I hope I'm wrong. (Of course, I don't regard the more mature members of OG as being misguided in their views on Brexit! :smile: )

I too had to look up holodomor - thanks, Plaques!

Stanley commented on the import of food ingredients after Brexit. This is already becoming more difficult due to the concentration of supplies in one area. When there is bad weather in that area there is no alternative supply. We've already had instances of this happening. So any other problem such as Brexit could make it even worse.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 24 Aug 2018, 09:24

One issue highlighted by the medical fraternity is that all the Insulin used in this country is imported. It comes to us via Europe on a system not unlike the "just in time" component delivery on modern assembly lines. It has a short shelf life apparently, blips in that supply line will have folk dying. Maybe it's already been factored in with the master plan. A cull of the elderly and infirm would reduce the costs to government, relieve some of the pressure on our beleaguered NHS and they could then probably spin it into a positive, happy days. :sad:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 24 Aug 2018, 09:32

It could have been missed in earlier versions of the plan. Although it's commonly referred to as a `drug' I suppose technically it isn't - it's a natural component of the human body and we don't class blood as a drug, for example.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 25 Aug 2018, 04:10

Does anyone take the repeated reassurance that all will be well by the Raabs of this world? In my mind such pronouncements are the kiss of death! I am taking steps to make sure I am prepared as well as possible because I have no confidence in our 'leaders' whatsoever. Name me one policy since 2010 that has worked.......
Where is T May? Has she been locked in a padded cell in the cellar of Number Ten?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 25 Aug 2018, 07:31

Here we go again. Five years after Corbyn made his speech some people have suddenly got an issue with it. Link. Against a background of murderous persecution culminating in Hitler's final solution, the Holocaust, the Jews as a race and religion deserve respect for what they have suffered. But the issue is now Palestine and what the Israeli army and State are doing to the Palestinian people. Illegal occupation of their lands, being herded into a virtual prison environment, bombed and shelled often with electricity, water and sewage being the target, a war crime in normal circumstances. Questioning these actions isn't being anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist its what you would expect from a democratic country.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 25 Aug 2018, 09:22

plaques wrote:
25 Aug 2018, 07:31
Questioning these actions isn't being anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist its what you would expect from a democratic country.
Spot on, Plaques. If we're going to refer to anti-XYZ we need to be more careful and accurate in how we choose the XYZ. I'm anti-Nazi but it doesn't mean I'm anti-German. The prefix `anti' is thrown about willy-nilly now without enough thought on the part of those doing the throwing. Did you hear the railway chaplain on the radio this morning talking about the abuse being suffered by station staff from disgruntled travellers? We seem to have bred a lot of angry people who can't control themselves and have little respect for others.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 26 Aug 2018, 03:34

I totally agree with both of you. And yes, I did hear that chaplain and he was spot on as well, too many 'angry' people, actually even that's flawed, they are actually people who live chaotic lives and never stop to consider the logic of their actions, simply self-obsessed and anything that hinders them is the target of rage.
The anti-Corbyn industry is driven by one thing, blind antagonism by reactionaries to any form of truth about social democracy or justice. Look at the latest killings of children in Yemen and Syria for exactly the same treatment that the Palestinians have to endure daily. Nothing to do with the political and economic factors at play. It's a matter of simple and obvious justice.
There is one more factor as well. Corbyn speaks truth as he sees it, sometimes flawed and I don't always agree with him but he's seen by the Right as 'dangerous' for that reason.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 26 Aug 2018, 10:16

Stanley wrote:
26 Aug 2018, 03:34
too many 'angry' people, actually even that's flawed, they are actually people who live chaotic lives and never stop to consider the logic of their actions, simply self-obsessed and anything that hinders them is the target of rage.
You've watched the Jeremy Kyle show too? :laugh5:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 26 Aug 2018, 10:34

Corbyn is too passive, he's an easy sitting target and needs to get out a bit more and take control instead of letting opponents create his image for him. He's providing a blank canvas and his enemies are painting the picture of him.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 26 Aug 2018, 11:59

He is constantly "out" as you say and contributes to a wide array of events, that never get reported or the massive crowds that he attracts, not all direct Labour Party organised events either. Media would rather take event from his past and report them out of context or spun to misrepresent his character in their ongoing assault. Difficult to counteract that when the majority of the media is outwardly hostile.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 27 Aug 2018, 02:46

As long as the Murdochs, Barclay Brothers and Rothermeres of this world control the media anyone who leads on the left and makes any sort of a fist of it will be attacked.
Have a look at THIS, if the People's Vote campaign can get some traction this looks like a good initiative.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 27 Aug 2018, 07:43

I think we all know that if we crash out of the EU we will hand total control to the Americans. Trump is already threatening sanctions on everybody who disagrees with their ' security' programmes. This applies in equal measure to its allies and even those who have 'special relationships, ie: the UK. Having said all this America was becoming very active in the EU with trade deals in which they could sue countries for lost profits. IMF funded bail outs which brought Greece to its knees. Also NATO which is becoming more of a mercenary army to do American bidding. I would like Corbyn and the Labour Party to make it clear where they stand on these points before we go headlong into a second referendum. Bearing in mind that once out we have no influence whatsoever on the EU.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 27 Aug 2018, 08:11

I agree P and that leaves aside the whole philosophical argument for the wider benefits to mankind of cooperation with other nations instead of taking the Trump route of my country right or wrong and what is essentially economic imperialism. Apart from anything else, Trumpism is doomed to fail because It starts with the assumption that the US is and will remain the greatest economic and moral force in the world. The western assumption of moral authority over the East is long past its sell-by date.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 27 Aug 2018, 09:14

We are signed up to the People's Vote campaign: LINK

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 27 Aug 2018, 09:28

So am I, been watching development for some time. Lots of interest and similar initiatives being shared around some of the political FB sites I frequent.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 28 Aug 2018, 02:51

So have I. Numbers count!
I am puzzled by the fact that T May is going to Africa to drum up trade. My understanding from reading the runes is that Number 10 has clawed back operation of the negotiations from the body set up to do it. That being the case, where are the priorities with less than 8 weeks to go before the final meeting in Brussels which is supposed to set the UK proposals in stone?
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