POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 05 Dec 2019, 07:59

Cyril? He was a horrible man, I once had the misfortune to be in front of him waiting to get in to Piccadilly station car park because there were no parking spaces and he was berating the man on duty.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Sue » 05 Dec 2019, 08:03

Yes but I didn’t know that then I wasn’t a local girl. He was very helpful with one or two issues we had and he resolved them in about 1980. I do know now why he visited the maternity unit at New year, when my eldest was born.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Sue » 05 Dec 2019, 08:13

Stanley wrote:
05 Dec 2019, 03:12
Good man Nigel. I hadn't noticed but now you have drawn it to my attention I'm sure you're right. As for it being used to smear Corbyn, that's about par for the course.Surprises me they haven't told him he needs a shave.
I spent a lot of time in Rochdale as you all know and yes, I always fretted at the fact that it is regarded today as part of GMC. Same for Stockport of course.
All I want now is to 'get the election done!' bugger Brexit, vote on the real issues. I am still rock solid Labour, no need to waste time canvassing me!
If the Tories win this one it proves two things above all to me, that the right wing media hold the power and we have too many ignorant voters who haven't read the history and take no notice of the real issues.
I agree about voting on the important issues. Brexit will be done , and we will still have the other issues. But no! Everything will be perfect, money everywhere, they all say so. But won't resolve climate , policies are needed NOW, and action.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 05 Dec 2019, 08:29

Exactly right Sue.
I've just been listening to Sajid Javez attacking Labour instead of addressing the difficult questions he was being asked. The way these politicians avoid the questions that are embarrassing is disgraceful. He was dead on party line, if he wasn't it would be the end of his career and he knows it, Baroness Warsi was right when she voiced that.
Obvious now what the strategy is for the next six days, turn every question to an attack on Corbyn and avoid coming clean about dodgy timetables, brilliant oven ready deals and the possibility of No Deal at the end of 2020.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 05 Dec 2019, 19:28

Review of Colne Hustings 3rd Dec 2019

One of the subjects that kept cropping up in the Colne hustings was that of housing. Bearing in mind that 52% of Pendle's housing is terraced housing often approaching 100 years old and that demolition and replacement would take up a far bigger footprint Pendle Council is faced with an impossible problem.
Attempting to put some order to the discussions ,although not in the order in which they appeared, this is my logical sequence as I see them.
Cut backs to grants to Lancashire County Council and Pendle restricted their involvement in housing renewal.
Empty property renewal is not seen as profitable for the private landlord so it is left to the council to take action, see above.
Planning laws gave an unprecedented advantage to the developer by placing the cost of appeals, win or lose, on the council.
Although the council preferred brown field development the developers would always chose green field. The profit margin and desirability being greater for green field sites.
The cost of most new builds is financially outside the range of most first time buyers. Similarly, older downsizers would be faced with increased costs and would often have to move away from the area they know.
The estimated demand for affordable houses is 40% of all new builds and set against average property price the profit margin would be non existent if not negative.

Not included in the discussions but available from the various Pendle Council websites here are some of the facts behind the above problems.
From the Pendle Core plan, the council of the day gave a delivery target of 3330 from 2014 to 2030, nominally 298 per year but taking into account previous underperformance = 560 per year.
The population growth of Pendle starting 2001 has been.
2001 = 89,248, 2011 = 89,452. 2018 (estimate) = 91,405.
Also it is estimated that between 2016 and 2041 the population of Pendle will decrease by 1.3%
Doing a bit of maths on this last estimate
Population in 2016 = 90917, population in 2041 = 89,735 .
Total increase over 40 years (89735 - 89248) = +487 people.
but if taken as a linear reduction so that in 2030 the end of the housing programme = +811 people.
This boils down to building 3330 dwellings to accommodate an extra 811 people.

I would suggest that Pendle Council reviews its house building policy or something containing breweries may spring to mind.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 05 Dec 2019, 20:51

Plaques - It might be some kind of thinking about over-crowding and/or under occupation. Is the 3330 New Dwellings a Net amount or uplift on existing? It is possible there will be more households of 3persons or less, and less of 4persons or more, so this would give a need for more dwellings for fewer persons. The other housings stock that is Housing Pendle I have said before is becoming life-expired , there are/were grants for estate renewal , it is possible if you sacrifice some of the ground level greenspace and playspace for the estates (which in Colne are in the main a few flats no more than two storeys high, or semi-detached houses or link detached bungalows), then you can fit more dwelling units in. There are new private builds going ahead - they seem rather small compared to what I would like, as in Burnley isnt there one main preferred partner with a bit of Gleesons and Keepmoat? If you watch homes under the hammer Pendle (Colne) had some end of terrace space supposedly left over from a proposed grade separated roadway that never happened, some small private developers have acquired and a mix of 2 and 3 bed houses are going up in penny numbers, likewise some refurbishments of the terraced stone housing at around £20k, Doc style, is happening- the developer profit is coming from the rental income rather than on-sales. Colne at present does not have a university level educational facility so there is little need for single person flat dwellings in new block build, but some mill conversions are happening , as well as bigger homes in the likes of Salterforth (ex Slientnight land), which are a bit daft as there is little effective popular public transport. Should the Skipton-Colne section of railway re-open then there would be expectation of more housing in Earby and Colne to make use of it, certainly links to Leeds would be easier (if not cheaper). Whats the expected age profile of that predicted population ?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 05 Dec 2019, 21:32

Whyperion wrote:
05 Dec 2019, 20:51
Plaques - It might be some kind of thinking about over-crowding and/or under occupation. Is the 3330 New Dwellings a Net amount or uplift on existing?
These are additional new dwellings. Any future demolition of old houses are added to the total quantity. The Core plan is a massive document 280+ pages which covers nearly everything you have mentioned.
Housing in Pendle.JPG
profile The Profile is an update on some quantities. The one thing I didn't mention in my ramblings is that Pendle's population is getting older, The birth rate is falling behind the retirement rate, Manufacturing is on the decline while the service industry is taking up some of the slack but collectively they are going south as they say.
The figures I have quoted are those of the Pendle Council. The housing numbers were based on what someone projected the population to be in future years. They didn't say that these were speculative builds other than that if the proposed industrial estates were ever built they may be needed for any incoming workforce. Aspiration based on aspiration.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 06 Dec 2019, 03:16

All far too complicated for this tired old brain P! Sounds like a Planning Department doing some blue sky thinking based on dodgy estimates to justify their existence!
I am avoiding as much 'news' as possible. It is all conjecture about hypotheticals in search of a headline.
Roll on next Thursday and some certainty one way or another. We shall then know if there is a God.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Sue » 06 Dec 2019, 07:20

Stanley, I have not watched a single programme or debate on the TV. There is enough of it on the news to know the lies and half truths and unreal scenarios they are all talking about
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 06 Dec 2019, 08:16

Exactly. You echo my thoughts. Mind you I am tempted by Johnson v Corbyn tonight but can't say for sure that I will stay the course if I do!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 06 Dec 2019, 10:28

As I write this, Corbyn has been giving a speech about another Tory document and Starmer is tweeting extracts. It all revolves around how Boris claims is deal will or won't affect N. Ireland. Laura Kuennsberg says it isn't really secret or surprising and much of it has already been admitted by Tory ministers, it's only Bojo who as usual is continuing to say the wrong thing! :smile:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 06 Dec 2019, 11:52

Its easy to forget that in 1913 Ireland was at the point of civil war, only WW1 intervening and taking home rule off the table saved the day. Ever since we have had riots and 'troubles' that led to the Good Friday agreement. Its not impossible to think that Boris's plan for a border in the middle of the sea won't spark it all off again.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 06 Dec 2019, 22:25

Just finished watching the leadership debate on BBC1. Summarized in one word, Painful.
Not really happy in the way Nick Robinson allowed Johnson to drift away from the question he was asked and letting him to divert before finishing the sentence to pose an unrelated question on Corbyn. Usually it was the same one time and time again on a point that had already been covered. When faced with a question he couldn't or wouldn't answer out came the fallback position 'Get Brexit Done' or my 'fantastic deal' The whole show was bluff and bluster.
Corbyn answered all the questions in a direct manner but without any passion relying on logic to win the day which in today's world of sound bites and headlines doesn't appear to work. It isn't part of his nature to attack individuals or quote things out of context which again on the surface looks like a weakness. In general he fended off Boris's diversionary tactics with civilized answers but again they needed some thought to get behind what he was saying.

On the whole I don't think the session would alter established views and boiled down to a question of which one would you trust?

So at the end of the day its down to you the voter.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 07 Dec 2019, 03:15

I watched half of the debate and agree with you P. Johnson was in full bluster and divert mode attacking Corbyn personally as part of every answer sometimes on entirely different grounds. I agree about Ireland and Johnson skated over that one by saying the deal is fantastic, denying the treasury document and accusing Corbyn of sympathising with the IRA. Completely ignoring the fact that what Corbyn did was talk to the IRA on the grounds that only political agreement would end the troubles, exactly what Blair did in the negotiations that led to the Good Friday agreement. He completely ignored the fact that all Northern Ireland (And the Republic of course) is dead against his agreement and the customs restrictions, they want to remain.
You are right about calm logic being out of fashion, Johnson is a continuous act of bluster, slogans and incoherent unfinished sentences. Corbyn tried to give correct unembellished answers and restricted his attacks on the Tories to citing their failed policies since 2010.
I still believe that this is all a prelude to the real agenda; a failed trade negotiation due to Tory red lines, No Deal at the end of 2020, a shift to Trumpian trade terms and the continuation of the project to divert even more income to the top 1% and dragging us back to the good old days of the 19the century laisser faire. In this scenario, the poor and underprivileged are expendable. (Look at the people financing the Tories and this campaign.)
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 07 Dec 2019, 11:34

We didn't watch it. These `debates' are so full of lies and misinformation they do more bad than good, they give the protagonists more air time to promote their misinformation and their impossible promises. It'll all crystallise out next Friday (the 13th!) The sooner the better, let's get it over with - and I'm talking about the election, not Brexit.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 08 Dec 2019, 03:14

I had to overcame the same feelings Tiz in order to watch half an hour of it. Johnson is incoherent, sign of a chaotic mind I reckon! Saves him having to work at understanding the subject. Classic avoidance technique.
Later... My 'avoidance techniques' related to political news haven't been entirely successful.
One thing that strikes me about the arguments against the Tories that are being used is that I have heard nobody address the problem of the Elephant in the Room, the fact that chief amongst the terrible consequences of Tory politics is the referendum itself, the product of a weak PM trying to mollify the more rabid of his backbenchers. That was the only pressing reason for doing it and it not only failed in its primary objective but plunged the rest of us in the morass we are in now. Brexit is quite obviously a terrible mistake and I fear that unless we can somehow step back from the cliff edge we are in for a bleak economic future and a deserved status as the most politically backward nation in Europe.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 08 Dec 2019, 08:43

I've said before that once out of mainstream politics some of our politicians start to talk sense. In his latest broadcast Sir John Major one of our ex Prime Minsters comes down strongly against leaving the EU and blindly following the tribal politics that is the norm. This is a short clip on You Tube presented by the Telegraph. John Major 1 This extract has been truncated 1 minute to show that they may be considered as a broad church. A longer version 3 minutes explaining the pitfalls and possibly the negative consequences is included in the Mirror video. John Major 2 . Note! this clip may take longer to load since it is embedded in a newspaper article, but definitely worth listening to.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 08 Dec 2019, 10:19

Stanley wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 03:14
Brexit is quite obviously a terrible mistake and I fear that unless we can somehow step back from the cliff edge we are in for a bleak economic future and a deserved status as the most politically backward nation in Europe.
I agree with that and with John Major in the video. Unfortunately the majority of the voters are going to vote for either a party that has a deal and will take us out, or one that won't revoke Article 50 but will get a deal then abdicate responsibility for the decision and say to the public `I don't know what to do, you tell me'. So voting for either party is likely to see us out of the EU. To quote someone else, it's time to take back control.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 09 Dec 2019, 04:01

I agree with you P. Even Blair sounds attractive now!
Another thing that strikes me (and seems to be avoided by all parties apart from lip service) is the fact that we have got to a stage where every branch of the armed forces is crippled to the point where they are barely effective. Trump keeps going on about the percentage of GDP spent and the parties response is that they are spending the 2% or whatever the figure is. The real question is how it's being spent (or frittered away). For years, defence spending has been a disgrace, outsourcing has done nothing but damage, we can't even guarantee married quarters fit to live in!
Nobody mentions the proportion of naval ships tied up at the quay because of lack of maintenance and in some cases flawed design that cannot be rectified. I even heard a whisper the other day that the second aircraft carrier is not being worked on and rumours it was to be finished by the US.
Due to a variety of reasons, a major one being outsourcing recruitment and subsequent failure to get anywhere near the numbers required, the army is struggling to maintain efficiency, let alone improve.
The RAF is a shell. The only planes that are active are out-dated and there are so many questions about new ones and non delivery. Then there is the question of who holds the controls of the operating systems. I could go on but we are a laughing stock in inner military circles all over the world.
As for the 'Independent nuclear deterrent', it's a joke. It can never be used, is controlled by the US who hold all the codes and patrol efficiency has deteriorated to the point where is can't even be discussed, it's so bad.
So how long can the canard of "Punching above our weight" be supported. How long can we credibly be a member of the UN Security Council? Is the ship of state holed below the waterline?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 09 Dec 2019, 09:22

Boris just popped up on LBC - probably as a reaction to Jeremy's reluctance to do so. He made a total fool of himself. Said HS2 would cost "North of £100 million" when he had previously said £88 million. Do we need a six weeks campaign in the age of instant communication?

I learn today that both my children are likely to be made redundant very quickly if Labour get elected. :sad:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 09 Dec 2019, 09:31

Tripps wrote:
09 Dec 2019, 09:22
I learn today that both my children are likely to be made redundant very quickly if Labour get elected.
Can I ask why Tripps?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 09 Dec 2019, 09:53

Stanley wrote:
09 Dec 2019, 04:01
I agree with you P. Even Blair sounds attractive now!
Yes, which is more than can be said for Corbyn. On the radio this morning they reported a Labour canvasser in what is normally a strong Labour seat saying that five times as many people raised worries about Corbyn as raised them about Brexit. (And for balance see my Johnson pic on the Clean Jokes thread!)

`General Election 2019: NHS boss - Parties 'ducked' big issues' LINK
`Politicians have "ducked" the big issues in health and social care during the election, a leading NHS boss says. At the start of the campaign, NHS Providers chief Chris Hopson urged parties not to make "empty promises" or create "unrealistic expectations". There have since been manifesto pledges of millions more in NHS funding and extra staff from both main parties. But Mr Hopson says they have not offered "credible answers" to the NHS's biggest challenges...."But it's not just about money. Whilst we are pleased that parties are committing to increase staff numbers, it's still not clear how that will actually happen." Mr Hopson said there had also been a "genuine opportunity" for parties to tackle social care. "The offers from the main parties have varied in scope and ambition, but none has developed a compelling worked-through and credibly funded long-term solution." He added: "Once again we see politicians responding to popular support for the NHS, presenting themselves as its advocates and champions, but not really addressing what's needed to sustain the NHS long-term. "Health service staff and leaders will continue to do all they can to provide outstanding care, but they need more support, more realism and more forward-thinking from a political class which has once again talked a good game, but ducked too many of the big tackles"...'

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Sue » 09 Dec 2019, 12:49

Tripps wrote:
09 Dec 2019, 09:22
Boris just popped up on LBC - probably as a reaction to Jeremy's reluctance to do so. He made a total fool of himself. Said HS2 would cost "North of £100 million" when he had previously said £88 million. Do we need a six weeks campaign in the age of instant communication?

I learn today that both my children are likely to be made redundant very quickly if Labour get elected. :sad:
Just like mine were after the VOTE to leave Europe. Luckily both found other jobs, generally safer ones but not as good financially
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 09 Dec 2019, 12:57

Love him or loath him, Jeremy Corbyn will be in the Borough tomorrow. 9.30am Nelson centre by the Library and shuttle.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 09 Dec 2019, 13:05

Tripps wrote:
09 Dec 2019, 09:22
Boris just popped up on LBC - probably as a reaction to Jeremy's reluctance to do so. He made a total fool of himself. Said HS2 would cost "North of £100 million" when he had previously said £88 million. Do we need a six weeks campaign in the age of instant communication?
Probably a typo error. We are actually talking £Billions not millions.Ref:
Once upon a time, the HS2 high-speed railway was meant to cost £34bn in its entirety. In 2012, that became £42bn. Then £56bn was the magic number in 2015. Now we’re up to £88bn and a review panel says further increases are likely. (The Guardian)
Tizer wrote:
09 Dec 2019, 09:53
Yes, which is more than can be said for Corbyn. On the radio this morning they reported a Labour canvasser in what is normally a strong Labour seat saying that five times as many people raised worries about Corbyn as raised them about Brexit. (And for balance see my Johnson pic on the Clean Jokes thread!)
Does this really surprise you Tizer. Blair's new Conservative Labour party are against Corbyn and have tried to oust him twice. The Tories have made it one of the main planks of their campaign, 'Get Corbyn'. The right-wing press have also closed ranks on him with incessant negative propaganda and yet with the exception of some hyperbole spending numbers, of which he is not alone, what he has said is true. On the other hand what do we or anybody else for that matter know in detail about Brexit?
Slight diversion but relevant. Corbyn exposes the NHS trade deal talks with America. the headlines are not whether they are true but how did he get hold of this information. Is this Marxist Commie in league with the Russians? Unfortunately we can't tell you since our dealings with the Russians are secret.

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