POLITICS CORNER

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 62711
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

Ken, if he was a car dealer I'd strip him of his license under Fair Trading regulations.
Good point about Stephenson. See this weeks PE for the mess he is getting into on HS2, could be Grayling material. Speaking of Grayling....

Image
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 14187
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

Stanley wrote: 23 Oct 2020, 02:19 See this weeks PE for the mess he is getting into on HS2...
Talking of HS2, this makes me very angry, and I know Stanley will feel the same after reading the book about the web of interaction between trees in forest soils. Digging up all the soil and trucking it to another site then expecting everything to grow like it did before is absolutely bonkers. Imagine if giant diggers dug up the whole of Barlick and dumped it somewhere else would it ever be Barlick again? Is the world going mad? This is ancient forest, it's been there 10,000 years since the retreat of the Ice Ages. It almost ranks with Rio Tinto blowing up the ancient places of the Aboriginals in Australia.
`HS2: Moving ancient woodland habitat for rail line flawed, ecologists say' LINK

`Moving ancient woodlands cut down to make way for HS2 is a fundamentally flawed idea, leading ecologists say. The company behind the new rapid rail connection between London and the north of England is cutting down trees in the course of the construction. HS2 say the best strategy for the environment is to move the woodland soils to other places. Experts have told the BBC there is no strong evidence this method works and say it is a "smokescreen". HS2 acknowledges the evidence for the plan is "limited"..'.
`Elements of the ancient woodland are being translocated to a field next door. Translocation was originally described as moving a specific plant, animal, or insect for the purposes of conservation. But it has since controversially been used to define moving entire ecosystems that are in the way of human development. First, the ancient woodland - the "donor site" - is analysed and mapped. Then the vast majority of the trees are cut down. The soils are dug up and moved in trucks straight to a nearby "receiver" site..'.

By the way, on the topic of Rio Tinto blowing up the ancient places of the Aboriginals in Australia., they now claim to be reviewing their plans for 170 other sacred sites that they intended mining in the area. And I note this in a Reuters report in August: `Since July 2010, miners have submitted more than 460 applications to disturb or destroy sites of potential cultural significance in the region, according to Western Australia state parliament records. All but one of those applications were approved.'
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 62711
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

You're right Peter and I noted that Merlin Sheldrake was interviewed as part of the BBC coverage of the matter. Unfortunately they didn't give him long enough to explain why it is such a tragedy, perhaps the BBC hasn't read and understood his book about mycorrhizal fungi which are the foundation of the whole of plant life, not just the trees. Get his book, (LINK) read it and be amazed!
I heard a very good interview with the Scottish scientist who is in charge of their Covid response. Quite apart from giving an admirably clear overview of the Scottish response she very strongly made the point that the reason for Nicola Sturgeon's success in managing the response was that people trusted her. She went on to make the point that the Johnson/Cummings effect was much weaker because of the failings in the management of the virus in England (Including the infamous Barnard Castle eye test) and the loss of confidence this has caused.
Incidentally, I heard a clip of Cominic Dummings advocating the strongest possible sanctions against anyone who ignored the restrictions. Quite right! Let's start with him, if the maximum penalty were to be imposed he owes the Exchequer £30,000. (Incidentally this is the same as the unpaid council tax he owes on his second home according to a report in this week's Private Eye.)
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 14187
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

Stanley wrote: 24 Oct 2020, 03:38 the reason for Nicola Sturgeon's success in managing the response was that people trusted her.
This is also said to be the reason Sweden has coped so well against coronavirus without the need for lockdowns - the people trust the government. No chance of that here or in the US!

I didn't know where to post this so popped it in here. In passing, I heard a comment on the radio this morning during a discussion about charities being short of funds due to the virus. Someone said LGBT charities are losing out. Now, why do LGBT people need their own charities? I've nothing against LGBT folk but can't understand why there should be charities specifically dedicated to them. Are they not allowed to use normal charities? :-?
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 5319
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques »

Concern is now growing that if Biden gets into the White House then our oven ready trade deal goes back into the fridge. Very little contact has been made with Biden on international affairs and the likelihood of a quick deal before we leave the EU will not happen. Johnson will be left with no option but to do a U-turn and get something out of the EU. With only the WTO tariffs facing the UK and massive logistical problems of getting goods into Europe the outlook is getting worse by the day. Time to bring back Chris Grayling and Dido Harding then we could have a world beating cock up and someone we could really blame.
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 62711
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

I like the logic Ken! But it's no joking matter. Mind you that's the only way of dealing with circumstances as bad as we face at the moment. I'm not sure what qualifies as good or bad news at the moment. There appears to be all party recognition that Dido has managed yet another disaster. One Tory MP called for her to be replaced by a general.... God alone knows what the logic behind that is! My advice, give the money and the problems to the NHS and the Councils. Sack Serco and the US equity houses milking the NHS. Then sit back and keep quiet. I think the results could be surprising!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 5319
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques »

It may be my imagination but it always seems as if once the London mafia gets involved with any project be it roads, rail, bridges or stadiums the costs go through the roof with inevitable demands for extra money for unforeseen problems. By comparison awarding the project to a local northern firm or organisation invariably comes in on time and within budget. Grand plans instigated by central politicians who only have a vague idea about what they are asking for is a road to disaster. Unscrupulous firms will give them exactly what they ask for knowing its a load of rubbish but once started allows them to milk the ignorance to the maximum. Perhaps Serco's track and trace is today's obvious example.
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 11552
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker »

I picked up that the dissent in the Tory party has spread to the Chair of the 1922 committee. :smile: From an opposition point of view it's quite comforting when the bloke that does the hiring and firing is critical of his own lot. :extrawink:
Ian
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 14187
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

This was triggered primarily by Ms Patel's `lefty lawyers' comment. Someone should warn her that it's not a good idea to upset lawyers...
`Boris Johnson and Priti Patel 'should apologise for lawyer attacks'' LINK
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 62711
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

Ian, Johnson won't even attend a meeting with his own backbenchers! Remember him 'promising' to do better to the Liaison Committee?
As for Johnson and Patel getting into trouble for referring to 'Lefty' lawyers. It's all p[art of what T May started, the 'hostile environment'. Exactly Patel's style, she switches into 'hang em and flog em' mode far too easily for my liking. I do seem to remember her advocating the death penalty in an unguarded moment.
Did you notice in this weeks Boy's Own knee jerk reaction involving the SBS that 19 stowaways became economic migrants, illegal immigrants and possible terrorists. When eyebrows were raised and questions asked about weapons it was revealed that they were in possession of 'sharp objects'. Helicopters, attack boats and heavily armed 'Elite Troops' had the situation under control in 9 minutes. (!?) Cue press conference and full on adulation of 'Our Boys'.
Am I the only person in the world who smells a rat? Government under attack over stupid school meals decision, cue smokescreen of a 'terrorist incident' nipped in the bud by our brave boys. Does this come from the fertile mind of the same person who advised on not spending money to feed hungry kids?
(BTW. Message from Stanley to the government, yes I know you're funding the benefits system but you know how much you have saved by austerity. Someone is paying for it somewhere. Make sure it isn't the children. Be seen to be feeding them. Simples!!)
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 5319
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques »

Stanley I share your scepticism about the stowaway story. the numbers seem to vary from story to story but 7 is more often quoted. It would seem that having stowaways on oil tankers is a common occurrence probably dealt with by slipping them ashore when they unload. No fuss, no inquiries, no black marks against the captain or shipping line. QED. But now the background scenery has changed, illegal immigrants have moved up on the smokescreen agenda. Gather the stowaways up and present them for your brownie points is probably now seen as a good move. Of course the stowaways were somewhat aggrieved by this change of plan and started acting a bit bolshe. Time to call in the cavalry with more brownie points all round. I wonder if there will be any follow up reporting? I doubt it.
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 14187
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

Oh come on Plaques and Stanley, you're getting like the social media conspiracy fanatics! A bunch of stowaways wanted to find their way to Britain, when they found they weren't going to be able to get off they committed piracy and threatened the crew, who quite naturally requested assistance from police etc. We were obliged to provide such assistance and gave it. End of story. Naturally it's in the newspapers for a day but then forgotten. :smile:

The latest news in depth on Trump's financial situation...
` All the president’s debts: to whom Donald Trump owes money: Debts of more than $1bn are tied to the Covid-struck commercial real estate market' LINK
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 62711
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

"Oh come on Plaques and Stanley, you're getting like the social media conspiracy fanatics! "
No Peter Ken and I are sceptical realists and examine every headline. This is not a 'conspiracy theory' and you know it. I'm surprised you accuse us of that. I suggest that you be a bit more sceptical when reading headlines like these. It pays to interrogate them.
I am not speaking for Ken but what I am doing is looking at a balance of probabilities. I suspect you are right and the stowaways got stroppy when the plan changed. Quite right for the captain to tell his crew to go to the citadel and lock down while he contacted the authorities. I don't know who he called but it wasn't the SBS or the Home Office, more likely the Border Agency or the police. That's where this went wrong, someone referred the matter to higher authority and whoever that was went overboard and used a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Remember that In Patel we are dealing with a woman who has considered using nets to foul immigrant boat's propellers, employed an ex SBS man to advise on stopping boats getting off French beaches and seriously looked at leasing redundant ferries and after filling them with migrants parking them far away.
What seems to be forgotten is that these people are not terrorists, illegal migrants or 'economic' migrants. They are legitimate asylum seekers until we can prove otherwise. Therefore they should be welcomed, supported, processed quickly and then disposed of as the law indicates after their status has been established.
We simply haven't got the resources to deal with them properly because of neglect and under investment over many years. Even Patel argues that the service is not fit for purpose. It is in circumstances like this that the 9 minute wonder operation by the SBS was seen as a good thing, cue immediate press conferences. (Those press conferences in themselves should tell you something. Why were the PM and the Home Secretary going on national news to comment on a non-event involving a small number of migrants?)
It's smoke and mirrors Peter! The only people this benefits is Johnson and Patel it convinces them that they have power and are in control. I'll leave you to judge if that's right.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 5319
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques »

Part of my scepticism was that it was Mat Hancock the Health Minister who did the announcing. Surely this was Prety Patel's job? Was this to deflect attention away from what may look like collusion if she had done the announcing. Science tells us that things that appear simple on the surface are quite often a lot more complicated when you start delving into them. Politics is no different.
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 14187
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

I think we differ in our estimation of the ability, competence and intelligence of our politicians. Where you see cunning wheezes I see mistakes, bungling, over-reaction, dithering. But it's good we have different views, it prevents us from living in echo chambers! :good:

Only six sleeps to the US Presidential election! The Americast radio programmes are in overdrive. The BBC's John Sopel and Anthony Zurcher are on the spot. It's fascinating hearing Zurcher in the last programme saying `In the morning I'm with Biden in [name a state] and in the afternoon with Trump in [name another state]'. They're getting strong feelings that Biden is likely to win; he's got Trump on the back foot. The postal voting is far in excess of previous elections and the feeling is that many who voted for Trump last time have been cured by 4 years of the man and his stupidity. Let's hope they're right! :smile:
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 11552
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker »

It's likely to be a very high turnout, more than half of the number who voted last time have already cast their ballots. Interesting to note that comments regarding Trumps appointment of his favoured Republican bent Supreme Court Judge could have an impact if the result ended up in the Court? The comment was as if this was already a given. The bench is weighted almost 2/1 in favour of the Republicans and the problem is the appointments to that office are for life. In fairness it should have been a Democrat to maintain a more even balance but of course Trump isn't fair is he?
Ian
User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 4867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps »

Stanley wrote: 28 Oct 2020, 04:02 I suggest that you be a bit more sceptical when reading headlines like these.
Indeed. The Mail is reporting that these stowaways/ refugees were actually discovered days ago, and in accordance with the law, an attempt was made to land them in the nearest country which was France. Landing was wisely refused. It's hard to imagine that the group could remain hidden, fed and watered for such a time without some collusion from the crew.
plaques wrote: 28 Oct 2020, 08:20 these people are not terrorists, illegal migrants or 'economic' migrants. They are legitimate asylum seekers until we can prove otherwise.
How do you know that?
Born to be mild. . .
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 5319
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques »

Tripps wrote: 28 Oct 2020, 11:30 plaques wrote: ↑28 Oct 2020, 09:20
these people are not terrorists, illegal migrants or 'economic' migrants. They are legitimate asylum seekers until we can prove otherwise.
How do you know that?
Not me. It was part of Stanley's post. As far as I know they were stowaways that morphed into hijackers according to some of the papers. Perhaps Prety Patel Home Secretary will give us a full report sometime?
User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 4867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps »

Yes - of course, it's Stanley's. . Can't explain how that happened. The two quotes came from the same source - or at least I thought they did. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 62711
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

Simple David. read what I said again; "...until we can prove otherwise. Like any other suspect they are all innocent until we prove them guilty. We can't start from the premise that they are criminals or have no asylum status. We have to investigate and then make a rational decision.
Unfortunately, Priti Patel seems to have reinforced T May's 'hostile environment'.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 4867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps »

I read what you wrote. You're naive. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 62711
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

Yes David, you're right. It is naïve in this day and age to expect the government to adhere to the basic principles of justice.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 14187
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

Have a look at the fifth graphic down in this article. I was tempted to post a copy of it in the Mystery Objects thread and ask `What's the object on the right of this photo?' Have a listen to what he has to say - but have a sick bag close at hand! :laugh5:
`US Election 2020: Trump slams lockdowns, Biden accuses him of insulting victims' LINK

Joking aside there is good news in that article...
`The US Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that voting officials in Pennsylvania and North Carolina, two key battleground states, could accept postal ballots for several days after the general election in an outcome that cheered Democrats. In the North Carolina case, the justices allowed lower court decisions to stand that permitted the state board of elections to extend the deadline for accepting ballots to nine days after the vote. The highest US court also declined to decide before election day whether Pennsylvania election officials can continue receiving votes for three days after the vote.'

It's good because Trump wanted to ban any extensions. Also it was followed by this: `The court's new justice, Amy Coney Barrett, did not take part in either case.' Perhaps she's not going to force her Republican views on the Court?
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 4867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps »

Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the Party, and has had the whip withdrawn.

Let battle commence. . . . :smile:
Born to be mild. . .
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 62711
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

And he still can't grasp the fact that he failed. A long time ago I thought he could grow into the job, I was totally wrong. He and his supporters have completely disillusioned me.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Post Reply

Return to “Current Affairs & Comment”