CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 16 Dec 2016, 10:02

Our discussion about the availability or otherwise of data is in other folk's minds too, it seems. This report today on the possible effects of Trumps ascendancy makes interesting reading:
`Former Nasa chief scientist says access to federal data is critical' LINK
"Limiting access to federal research would do an "enormous disservice" to the US and the world according to former Nasa chief scientist. Dr Waleed Abdalati told the BBC the that continued access to data is in "everyone's best interest". Many US scientists are rushing to copy information onto servers outside the control of the federal government. They are afraid the Trump administration will curb access to climate and other research. The President-elect has blown hot and cold on the issue of climate change, having previously tweeted about global warming being a hoax. On Wednesday, one of his advisers compared scientists who support the mainstream view on global warming to flat-Earthers."...

"...researchers are taking a more pessimistic view on the question of data access and are encouraging colleagues and students to make copies. Prof Robert Paterson, from the University of Texas, Austin, says that he learned this the hard way under the administration of George W Bush, another president cool on climate. "Within a month of coming into office the EPA website went down for three weeks and when it went back up stuff wasn't available anymore," Prof Paterson told BBC News. "If history repeats itself with another administration that is basically a naysayer to climate change science, I would say it would be prudent for folks to do what they can to keep as much as they can on mirror sites."

"Attempts by the Trump transition team at the DoE to obtain a list of all those employees who had worked on climate change have provoked anger as well as fear. "I was horrified by the report with regard to Department of Energy scientists being named. We must stand up to that and I have said so. We are all DoE scientists in that regard," said Dr Kevin Trenberth who has been a lead author for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is a senior scientist at the US National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR). "That is a pretty chilling action by an incoming administration - the rhetoric suggests that revenge is a valid response to people who disagree with you," said Prof Robert Paterson."

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 17 Dec 2016, 05:47

"That is a pretty chilling action by an incoming administration - the rhetoric suggests that revenge is a valid response to people who disagree with you," said Prof Robert Paterson."
That's the key I think and it should be noted that as Trump's team grows and they get more active statements will come from them which are their interpretation of what Trump thinks. Many of the new men and women are inexperienced in administration and slightly to the right of Genghis Khan and simplistic concepts like revenge will be common. They will not necessarily reflect Trump who is a pragmatist and could possibly adjust his view. Much depends on how well he controls them. He is driving too many separate teams at the moment as the question of his business interests has not been resolved. I think the advice on mirror sites is excellent!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 21 Dec 2016, 10:31

A good last minute move by Obama. Trump will try to overturn it but he'll face legal challenges.
`Obama bans oil drilling 'permanently' in millions of acres of ocean' LINK
Outgoing US President Barack Obama has permanently banned offshore oil and gas drilling in the "vast majority" of US-owned northern waters. Mr Obama designated areas in the Arctic and Atlantic oceans as "indefinitely off limits" to future leasing. The move is widely seen as an attempt to protect the region before Mr Obama leaves office in January. Supporters of president-elect Donald Trump could find it difficult to reverse the decision. Canada also committed to a similar measure in its own Arctic waters, in a joint announcement with Washington. The White House said the decision was for "a strong, sustainable and viable Arctic economy and ecosystem." It cited native cultural needs, wildlife concerns, and the "vulnerability" of the region to oil spills as some of the reasons for the ban.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 22 Dec 2016, 05:33

The pollution from the Exxon Valdez oil spill which occurred in Prince William Sound, Alaska, on Good Friday, March 24, 1989 has still not completely dissipated. Perhaps Trump has never heard of it.... Well done President Obama!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 24 Dec 2016, 07:09

See THIS report in the Irish Times of the Arctic equivalent of a heat wave. I wonder what Donald Trump thinks about this.....
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 24 Dec 2016, 09:59

Trump would tell you it's all lies...

The BBC web site reports: Dr Thorsten Markus, chief of NASA's Cryospheric Sciences Laboratory, said the heatwave was "very, very unusual". "The eerie thing is that we saw something quite similar (temperatures at the North Pole of about 0C in December) almost exactly a year ago," he told BBC News. The freeze and thaw conditions are already making it difficult for reindeer to find food - as the moss they feed on is covered by hard ice, rather than soft, penetrable snow.

But I was relieved to see his final words: Asked if the conditions on Christmas Eve were likely to affect Santa's all-important journey, Dr Markus said he was confident that his sled would cope with the conditions. He added: "Santa is most likely overdressed though. Maybe in the future we'll see him in a light jacket or plastic mac."

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 03 Jan 2017, 10:05

`David Hempleman-Adams urges climate change action after Arctic voyage' LINK
"The adventurer Sir David Hempleman-Adams has called on politicians to "grasp the nettle" on climate change. The 60-year-old set off from Bristol in June to circumnavigate the Arctic polar region by boat, a trip traditionally taking about three years. His team managed it in four months and one day which confirmed, he said, his "worst fears" about disappearing ice....Packed ice previously would have slowed progress on the 13,500 nautical mile trip. But Sir David - from Box in Wiltshire - said after encountering little ice in the Laptev Sea north of Siberia, the yacht reached the Northwest Passage, where they found almost none for 1,800 miles (2,897km). "I think we're all a bunch of ostriches, and what we're doing is handing it to the next generation to sort out," she said. He compared the loss of ice to the cutting down of the Brazilian rainforests and said the Arctic had reached a "tipping point", which could lead to major flooding and famines."

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 04 Jan 2017, 05:02

Unfortunately I tend to agree with him..... It's too late. We will (mostly) survive but at what cost?
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by chinatyke » 05 Jan 2017, 01:36

28C here yesterday and 27C forecast for today. This compares to a normal January average low/high temperature of 8C/14C. It hasn't been <22C during the daytime since before Christmas. We had a warm Winter last year also.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 05 Jan 2017, 04:41

We'd think that was hot in high summer China......
See THIS for a Guardian report on the spat between climate change doubting Republicans and Thomas Karl of the NOAA. He and his co-authors published an inconvenient report saying that the oceans were warming faster than previously thought and were attacked by the House Committee on Science who have now had to back down as the investigation they initiated has vindicated the NOAA and shown that their research was sound and the conclusions correct. Over to you Donald.........
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 05 Jan 2017, 11:35

NOAA, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, has long been highly regarded worldwide for its work and are the very people we should be looking to for guidance on climate change. We seem to have entered an age of celebrating ignorance, not knowledge and experience. The critical point about this news is that it confirms the oceans have been warming TWICE as fast as we thought they had over the last 15 years. No wonder the Arctic ice is melting so fast.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 06 Jan 2017, 04:38

See THIS for a good non alarmist BBC report about the big iceberg about to break away in Antarctica. Most of the headlines compared it to Manhattan Island but nice to see the Swansea researchers sticking to our old favourite, the size of Wales!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 06 Jan 2017, 11:38

I remember a novel 20 or more years ago about a giant iceberg breaking away from Antarctica and floating towards America, finally colliding with Manhattan. Perhaps we should call this one `Trumpberg'. :smile:

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 07 Jan 2017, 04:21

The man from Swansea was saying yesterday that this one is so big that if it doesn't run aground and gets in the open sea it could easily reach a long way into the tropics. He also said that it could survive for well over ten years...... I wonder how much it weighs?
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 19 Jan 2017, 05:53

I've already commented on the Met Office report that 2016 was the warmest year in the UK since 1910. HERE'S the equivalent US report. Global warming? Naaaa....
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 19 Jan 2017, 09:58

Here's the NASA press release with accompanying animation. They should put this on The Trump's smartphone so it plays every time he fires up the phone: LINK

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 20 Jan 2017, 05:09

Good animation and article Tiz. Waste of time telling Trump, he has a closed mind due to the fact he is convinced he is right.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 16 Mar 2017, 10:16

Evidence is growing that the severe air pollution and smog that has affected China recently is linked to the loss of sea ice in the Arctic altering wind circulation patterns. The smog happened even though the Chinese government had taken steps to curb emissions from coal fired power plants.

`China's 'airpocalypse' linked to Arctic sea ice loss' LINK
"The air pollution that lingered over eastern China for nearly a month in 2013 has been linked to the loss of Arctic sea ice the previous autumn. A study says the haze lasted much longer because the melting ice and increased snowfall altered wind circulation patterns. If Arctic ice continues to shrink due to climate change, the scientists say similar events will likely recur. They argue that this could threaten the Beijing Winter Olympics set for 2022."

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 17 Mar 2017, 04:41

And Trump's proposed massive cuts to the US Environment Agency will not do anything to help.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 21 Mar 2017, 06:42

Trump should read THIS and consider how this could possibly be false news. 2016 was the hottest year on record and is described as 'uncharted territory'. There is small consolation prize in that 2017 is not an El Nino year and may possibly be cooler but watch this space.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 21 Mar 2017, 11:08

Global temperatures for Jan 2016
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Global temperatures, 1850 to preesent
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From NOAA/WMO
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tripps » 21 Mar 2017, 12:14

Yes OK, but does it show that we are the cause? Looks like the result of going for a low 'carbon' economy for many years now, is a record high temperature.
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley » 22 Mar 2017, 03:28

That question was asked in an interview yesterday David and the reply was that the consensus of opinion is that our emissions are a major contributory factor. As for the effects of what we have done so far, we can't know what the figures would have been if we had done nothing. My attitude is that like you I don't know for certain but common sense tells me that the less crap we put into the atmosphere the better even if it wasn't affecting the climate. I don't see how that can be argued against.... on the grounds of cleaner air alone it makes sense.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer » 22 Mar 2017, 10:32

Tripps, contrary to popular opinion, scientists have searched for other causes but nothing has been found that comes anywhere near explaining the observed large increases in atmospheric CO2, ocean temperature and global temperature. Other factors make small contributions but even combining them together it still leaves human activity as the only explanation for most of the change. Also, when we look at the problem from the other direction it's obvious that what we are doing would result in the effects we are seeing. We understand Earth systems well enough nowadays to say that if you pump so much CO2 into the atmosphere then you're bound to end up with higher temperatures due to the greenhouse effect - that's simple physics.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion » 23 Mar 2017, 08:45

Tripps, out low carbon output is as much due to loss of the industrial output that caused a substantial amount of it, but this has probably been exceeded by increases in the economies that are growing - some in South America , China and India in the main, and I don't think USA has dropped as far, as quickly, as western europe. There are knock on effects from the past, ( climate heating lags, and then with loss of reflective snow , the heating effects can runaway ), and the continued loss of rainforest bio-diversity for occupation, over-logging, palm plantations, and changes in sea algae from pollution are also impacting total CO2. The question is how far can the effects be reasonably reversed, or if not reversed can they be lived with ( anyone measured Barnoldswick's annual rainfall over the last 20 years ?

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