CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer »

Climate week? It'll increase carbon emissions from all the money being burned! Have a look at all the execs involved:
http://www.climateweek.com/about-us/the-team/
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tripps »

Good heavens. He's on a winner there. How can any organisation possibly refuse to take part? Who pays their wages?
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by catgate »

Just a quick look through the "C.V.s" of the playmates listed indicates that they all have a lot experience in this field. However, it also indicates how ineffective they have been so far, in their environmental activities, if they have to organise yet another "jamboree".
Perhaps their experience simply tells them how to busk their way through life.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion »

Eat Low Carbon (?) , can I no longer burn my toast.

I have not entirely understood why certain bits of africa use scarce wood for night time heating and cooking , while the west merrily imports loads of chinese etc wooden packing cases and pallets that then go to landfill ( or local dumping at your nearest fly-tip site ). Would have thought ( subject to control of possible pests and disease ) that unwanted wood from europe could be donated by the container load to those bits of africa, thus saving their trees and also producing some useful ash and scrap metal for them ). ( Transport costs could be sponsered by commercial entities or from landfill taxes )
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley »

I see that the latest assessments, apart from triggering hose-pipe bans, state that water levels in all resources are lower than they were in 1976. As consumption is higher, this doesn't look promising. Stand-pipes for the Olympics?
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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Stand pipes for the olympic's sounds good to me. I hate all the threats of drought when it never seems to stop raining in this part of the world. Are the north of England a non entity in Great Britain? On the climate change (can't call it global warming anymore since GB had the cold spell) did anyone see Country File on Sunday when it was deemed cows gave off to much gas caused by to much flatulance from both ends (polite am I not) and they were making them carry round a moniter to check this. Tesco have employed an expert to help you reduce your carbon footprint, there were two more government experts advising us to eat chicken kale and steamed potato's as this will also reduce the carbon footprint. In my opinion it's jobs for the boys and a way of making money as no matter what they come up with it won't combat evolution.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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Whippy, they'll probably tell you the pallets are contaminated, either with fire retardants, fungicides and insect repellants, or with the stuff that's been carried on them. Anyway, it would burn a lot of carbon just to transport them to Africa.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion »

well we send container loads of old TVs etc to africa so another few containers on the ship wont be too much marginal increase .

( The somali pirates could also float away on homemade rafts ). So the toxins and pests are ok for UK landfill ?
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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TVs, computers, all sorts of electronics waste goes to Africa, India etc but they also generate and throw away enormous amounts themselves. Have a look at this web page, especially the photos at the bottom:
http://www.alphagalileo.org/ViewItem.as ... ureCode=en
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley »

Have a look at this link for recycling in India and Pakistan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_breaking
When I was in the boiler trade we exported boilers to India in containers. The trade was aided by the fact that shipping rates were so low as many empty containers had to be sent back there. I think this applies to quite a lot of routes.
Best to keep quiet about how much water we have otherwise they'll all be flitting from the SE!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Whyperion »

Yes , the most freight out of Felixstowe to China is fresh air in the containers, but I chose africa as there is a dessertification problem involved with the destruction of savannah trees for firewood, and have tried to come up with a potentially workable solution for somewhere like Malawi.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley »

I'd recorded the BBC prog about the Earth's orbit. Much of it I knew already but it was good to have such a well organised and comprehensive overview of the subject. I shall be watching the others....
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer »

Yes, a good programme. I'm not usually keen on Kate Humble as a presenter but I take my hat off to her - I wouldn't take some of the risks she (and her co-presenter) are taking! Most of the explanations are good and there's plenty of gripping footage to keep us watching!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley »

And what a wonderful educational tool. Knowledge is power and so many people will have a better understanding of how our world works.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer »

Did you watch Julia Bradbury and Hugh Dennis with `The Great British Countryside'? More pre-history and geology, and wonderful scenery. One of the most pleasing aspects of this type of TV for me is the chance to see places that I won't be going to now, and also to see them from angles (aerial views etc) that I wouldn't have seen them from even when I did go. Yet there are still people who say "There's nothing on television"!
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley »

I've missed them Tiz. I shall watch out for repeats. I see the Met Office have said that there is no sign in the LR forecast of any meaningful relief for drought areas.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by EileenDavid »

Perhaps if United Utilities repaired all the leaks the drought wouldn't be an issue. There's been a leak on our road for the past 3 years and no matter how many times it's reported nothing is done so my bet is there are hundreds of them all over the country. Perhaps they should spend some of the money paid to them on improving the structure instead of stashing it in their pension funds. I am on a water meter so I pay for all the water I use.

Climate change as now been blamed for the state of the roads. They are cracking because of dry weather? The most major problems on the roads with potholes etc are were the utilities have dug up and reinstated. I used to work for BG and part of my job was to check and pay for excavations dug by our company for the permenant reinstatement (once done by ourselves) but councils then took it on board. All utilities had to pay the council to have excavations permenantly reinstated so were as all that money gone that has been paid for road maintenance. We also pay in our council tax, road tax and central government so why are we driving on such shocking road services.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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The Radio Times published an article by David Attenborough on his Frozen Planet series and they asked Jonathon Porritt to also write an article to accompany it. The RT edited out some of Porritt's article and they also fielded Nigel Lawson `for balance' (!). Here is the text of Porritt's original article, now published on his web site.

"The debate about the science of climate change here in the UK becomes more and more surreal. Whilst a little clique of armchair pundits continue to peddle the usual mix of scepticism and ill-informed prejudice, real scientists observing real-time phenomena in real places all around the world point to one inescapable conclusion: that the climate is changing far faster than anyone imagined possible even a few years ago.

Talking to climate scientists who have been out in the field can be a deeply disturbing experience. As professional scientists, they fiercely defend the objectivity of their data; as private citizens (and often parents), one can’t help but note the fear in their personal testimonies.

When a personal testimony of that kind comes from David Attenborough, its impact is enormous. David is one of the UK’s most trusted and admired public figures, whose views on climate change carry great weight.

What people won’t know is the personal journey David has been on in coming to those conclusions. For years, he was studiously neutral, listening to all sides of the debate, carefully assessing the evidence, politely resisting demands from environmental pressure groups to add his voice to various climate campaigns.

Only when he felt the evidence was robust enough did he declare his opinion (a few years ago) that the climate was changing, and it was changing because of man-made emissions of greenhouse gases.

It’s that thoughtful, conscientious journey that makes this personal testimony from the Arctic and the Antarctic all the more compelling - and I can only hope it will help to dispel some of the doubts that people still have as to the pressing urgency with which we must now address accelerating climate change.

And there’s still so much to be done – on energy efficiency, investment in renewables, research into storage technologies, smart grids and so on.

And I’m sure that David (as a fellow Patron of Population Matters) would also be advocating huge new investments in family planning programmes in key countries to help slow population growth."
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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I am still scheptical and even David Attenborough wouldn't convince me otherwise as in my opinion it is just a money spinning scam dreamed up by politicians to tax us even further.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Pluggy »

Having watched Orbit again last night, anybody else notice that according to the beeb's orbit graphic they show multiple times per episode, theres only about 6 days in a year. The earth rotates less than once as the Earth orbits from 1 one month to the next........
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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Pluggy, that sounds like Npower's special energy deal where they quietly define a year as 10 months!

Eileen, it's good to be sceptical and scientists are very sceptical, it's what science is all about - nothing is accepted unless convincing evidence is provided. The convincing evidence points to climate change occurring and being caused by human activity, and that it will very probably cause the human race a lot of distress if nothing is done to counter it. It's not a money spinning scam - a lot of money will have to be spent putting right what we've been doing wrong for decades.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Stanley »

I noticed that as well Plugs. Perhaps we should get out more?
Eileen, re roads drying out. Those of you with long memories will remember that during the drought of 1976 there was a big problem with foundations drying out and causing subsidence in houses built on clay. This was particularly bad in the London Basin and the insurance companies paid out enormous sums for underpinning and repairs. I remember my mate Roger Perry had a bad case with his house. This is why, when East Hill Street was being refurbished I insisted on having my front garden reinstated and not paved over. I pointed out the potential problem to the contractors but they took no notice. It was pertinent in our case as there is evidence that shortly after original build there was initial subsidence on the row. They knew about this but persisted with their plans. Time will tell.
So, shrinkage of subsoil under roads could well be a factor in accelerated deterioration of the surface. Funnily enough, excessive water like a spring or broken drain has the same effect.
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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

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Sorry Tizer still not convinced especially from the mouth of David Attenborough considering his last programme was found to have used trick photography. There are also scientists that believe changes in climate are being caused by natural evolution.

Stanley I remember the 1976 drought bathe with a friend etc and although I accept that clay does dry out again why are the roads crumbling were excavations have taken place? Our councils cannot even ensure that grid's are at surface level with the roads. Some of the surfaces are crumbling as they have just skimmed tarmac over cobbles another cause of subsidence. As I said I worked for BG in the engineering department so I am aware of how an excavation should be compacted and the amount of roadstone used prior to surfacing with tarmac. I have seen council workmen recently filling potholes with a bucket of tarmac, which is false economy as unless they are sealed properly to the existing tarmac they will just crumble again? We reported in Ramsbottom a pothole on the 19.01.2012 Bury councils constitution is to repair these within 48 hours and on the 09.03.2012 it still hadn't been repaired and was even deeper. French roads are like glass they are so smooth why are they not having the same problem? Maybe it's because there public insist on value for money in it's public service something we haven't had for years.

Another point is the use of fuel our refuge waggon's are using in the name of climate changing habits of recycling, again the French are better at it than us they have a bottle bank on the roadside for glass, a bag which takes everything else plastic,carton's,paper etc. and a general waste bin. Dave built a new waste plant for Manchester Tipper's which sorted and segregated waste if they can do it in my opinion then so could the councils.

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Bruff »

Very true Tizer. Science progresses via the falsifiability of hypotheses and theory. As one A Einstein said, ''no amount of experimentation will prove me right, but just the one will prove me wrong''. This falsifiability and implied scepticism which drives science should never been taken in its literal sense but sadly often is as basically, scientific literacy is woeful in this country.

We can also note the furore a few years back from those who know no better, over the use of the word 'trick' by some scientists mathematically modelling climate change data. Trick here is not 'trick' as commonly used; it is a mathematical 'trick', a clever application and manipulation of the mathematatics to cut through the analysis (notice my use of 'manipulation' there - this similarly should not be read in its more usual sense). Mathematicians use tricks all the time.

Those who wish to deny climate change tend not to do so on the basis of the science, largely due to most of them being ill-equipped to do so. Rather, they sow confusion to encourage doubt. These are exactly the same techniques used by the tobacco industry when the evidence pointed to the link between smoking and lung cancer.

On falsifiability, the work at CERN will hopefully show whether the theorised Higgs exists or not. If it doesn't then it's back to the theory. And of course, whilst some may think that outcome wopuld show the whole thing as a waste of time it's worth noting the World Wide Web came out of CERN. And PET scanners in hospitals (a collaboration between CERN and hospitals in Geneva). The 'P' in 'PET', the positron, is the anti-electron predicted via pure thought via the great British theoretical physicist Paul Dirac back in the early part of the 20th century. Born is Bristol, Dirac was the only physicist Einstein considerd his equal.

There are budding Diracs beavering away in Universities the length and breadth of this country. Mindful of recent Government announcements, it's worth musing on what the local private sector comparator is for these Diracs in say the University of Liverpool, as its clearly a nonsense to pay them the same as those at Imperial College (sarcasm wholly intended).

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Re: CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

Post by Tizer »

[Richard, I had written this before seeing your post above.]
EileenDavid wrote:There are also scientists that believe changes in climate are being caused by natural evolution.
Of course there are - that's how science works. Whenever some scientists put forward a theory to explain a phenomenon then others seek to prove them wrong. Gradually a consensus view emerges and that is accepted until an alternative theory supported by strong evidence can gain more supporters. More than 90% of scientists, and especially those working in with Earth Sciences, Oceanography, and Atmosphere Sciences, agree that the climate is changing in a way that will be severely detrimental to the human race and that this change is caused by increasing carbon emissions resulting from human activity. These conclusions are based on solid evidence - the results of a vast amount of experimental data and computer modelling over decades, by scientists in countries worldwide.
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