BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

Post by Stanley »

Like you China I don't understand Bitcoins but their popularity with criminals is something to do with anonymity and the fact the market is not regulated. On those grounds alone, include me out.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

Post by Tizer »

China, I'm sure the UK will soon be opting out of cash - you've probably seen the official reports that we won't be minting any more of the main coins for the next 10 years because they're in surplus already and going out of use fast. I haven't used any coins or banknotes since before lockdown.

What I'd like to see is a contactless payment card with a maximum of £50 and no facility to spend beyond that figure without topping it up, i.e. a card that if I lost it or someone hacked into the transaction nobody could get more than £50 from it. It would be ideal for small transactions, especially in the less secure situations. Does such a thing exist?
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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Tizer wrote: 27 Sep 2020, 09:55 Does such a thing exist?
Yes. Try Starling Bank. they have a facility called Space in which they will send you another subsidiary card which can be 'loaded ' from the main account with any amount, but no more than £200. It can then be used by anyone you choose to shop for you.

It is 'tap and go' for up to the current £45 limit, or you could trust them with the PIN for amounts greater than that. It can only be used at a till in a shop, and cash withdrawals or 'customer not present' use on the internet are not permitted.

It remains under control of the main card holder and can be frozen by them if necessary.

I've just sent mine to my grandchildren to get birthday presents. It's the first time it's been used so on trial really. I did ask if it was acceptable before I sent it. They were quite enthusiastic !

Used with common sense and by someone you trust I think it's a good idea,

What could possibly go wrong? :smile:

PS I have strict 'no questions asked' policy when I give money for presents. Not sure if that can be continued here. Will it tell me how much and where has it been spent? It does for the main account. We'll see - I doubt it will inhibit anyone though. :smile:
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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All bad news for those with a nest egg in fifties in biscuit tins under the bed! :biggrin2:
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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Tripps wrote: 27 Sep 2020, 10:24 What could possibly go wrong?
If someone stole it are you sure they couldn't quickly and repeatedly use it to pay for more than the £200 `limit'? Is it a real limit? I remember the bad old days when Paypal used to drain Ebayer seller's bank accounts to pay back customer's who said they hadn't received goods. :smile:
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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Tizer wrote: 28 Sep 2020, 10:42 If someone stole it
Yes I guess that could happen, but the limit of your exposure with the extra card is what you set to be, and only up to a maximum of £200. That balance is fixed by you, and you are the only one who can add funds to the card. If the recipient tells you they have lost it or had it stolen, you can freeze the card immediately from your smartphone.

I don't see what more they can do. It was a very quick, and I would say commendable response to the Covid self isolation situation. I'm quite relaxed about it all. This is the first time I've used it - we shall see. :smile:

I'd say the risk is greater with the 'main' card which is likely to be carrying a larger balance. It actually happened to me once when a replacement card was stolen in the post. They could then add their own signature which was needed in those days, The thieves went to every Tesco they could manage between Milton Keynes and Brighton, over a weekend and spent £39 in each. They knew how much to spend and how often, to get away with it - though why only Tesco I don't know. The bank alerted me, and without fuss, all the stolen money was refunded.

Your Paypal situation seems to have left a deep impression.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

Post by PanBiker »

When I was pick pocketed on Nice railway station. The professional team that hit me, (including an eight year old or thereabouts girl for authentic looking dad and daughter) spent just over £2000 in fifteen minutes in stores around Nice. I couldn't cancel until 40 minutes down the track as I didn't have a mobile signal. Didn't matter, all the damage was done in 15 minutes as that is the amount of time it normally takes to cancel cards once reported. The thieves know that and dump the cards after 15 minutes. They got 250 euro's in cash as well. I arrived in Italy with about £13 in sterling in my pocket for a 10 day holiday. :sad:
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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Mrs Tiz had an incident a few years ago with a credit card which she used when shopping at Sainsbury's, hardly for anything else. One day her card bill came and there was a long string of entries of something Russian to do with gambling. She informed the bank and the entries were all cancelled - it was obviously nothing to do with us. It made us wonder about security at Sainsbury's or the card company.

The kind of fixed low-value card I'd like would be one from an organisation that was not a bank so there was no link with a bank account at all. I imagine an Oyster card might be like that but of course with only one use.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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Tizer wrote: 28 Sep 2020, 15:17 The kind of fixed low-value card I'd like would be one from an organisation that was not a bank
As the Donald said about Harry last week "Good luck - you'll need it". :smile:

PS - on reflection perhaps we should go full circle and give them a £50 note.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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I had a break-in once when someone was using my credit card for I think it was gambling. I reported it and HSBC refunded the money. They said they didn't know how it had happened but I wondered if that was true. No matter, they sorted it.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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We're seeing more of these companies being set up and I worry when they're backed by right-wing libertarians...
`Palantir: The controversial data firm now worth £17bn' LINK
`US tech firm Palantir, known for supplying controversial data-sifting software to government agencies, has fetched a market value of nearly $22bn (£17bn) in its debut on the New York Stock Exchange. It's a lofty figure for a firm that has never turned a profit, been hit by privacy concerns and relies on public agencies for nearly half of its business. But the company, which takes its name from the "seeing stones" known for their power and potential to corrupt in Lord of the Rings, says the need for the kind of software it sells "has never been greater". The firm, which launched in 2003 with backing from right-wing libertarian tech investor Peter Thiel and America's Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), builds programs that integrate massive data sets and spit out connections and patterns in user-friendly formats.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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I agree. It just shows what activities are flavour of the month at the moment. Cummings will be watching, he's a fan of big data and innovative uses of it. Hence his weirdos...
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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`Blackbaud: Bank details and passwords at risk in giant charities hack' LINK
Blackbaud is `a service used to raise donations from millions of people'. The Information Commissioner's Office told the BBC it knew of `166 UK organisations that had been affected by the security breach. They include dozens of universities as well as health-related charities, schools and trusts set up to care for historic buildings. International clients who were affected also included hospitals, human rights organisations, non-profit radio stations and food banks'.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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And what is frightening about that is that we are certain we don't get to hear of all the incidences of fraud. That being the case, what is admitted and made public is only the tip of the iceberg. The mind boggles.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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Got an email today from the bank offering me advice on managing my money. That's OK.

Didn't like this bit though

Review your bills
We noticed you’ve been with OCTOPUS ENERGY for more than 12 months – have you considered whether you have the best deal available with them and for you?


I guess they are trying to get into the swap your suppliers market, which pays hefty commissions. I think analysing the items in my account is going a bit too far though.

The answer to their question is 'yes' :smile:
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Couldn't agree more David. You do right in suspecting an ulterior motive. Banks spend more time looking for profit for shareholders than ensuring digital safety. Janet and Harry reported that to me thirty years ago when they were both working on Risk Management at merchant banks. Some things never change. When they reported fixes for bum algorithms the question was always "How will this affect profitability?".
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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See THIS Guardian article on the fortunes of the super rich during the pandemic. This is becoming a major problem and it seems the rich are becoming aware of it. Carnegie comes to mind; "The man who dies rich dies disgraced."
The distribution of wealth has long been a problem but is now getting much worse and could be as big a killer as the virus in the long run.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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The BBC is running the same news...
`Billionaires see fortunes rise by 27% during the pandemic' LINK
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One of the greatest social evils of our time Peter. It is, and has been, the root of many problems. That apart from it being one of the best evidences of D'Israeli's 'Two Nations'. The poor are neglected.
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Image

From this week's Private Eye. A valid question. This is only the tip of the iceberg as there could be as many as 500 other cases that are eligible for review. Anyone who has followed this matter of the corrupt Post Office 'Horizon' software will be aware of this but Covid had diverted attention. There is also the small matter of what the culprits at the PO have moved on to, highly paid jobs elsewhere in the public sphere. Then there is the small matter of the amount to PO has spent on our legal friends pursuing these innocent people.
[This only one scandalous matter that is current at the moment but which has been submerged in Covid news. Think the report on child abuse, the investigation into Grenfell, the contaminate blood inquiry.]
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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I heard a harrowing story on the Money Programme yesterday. A married couple had a Life Assurance with Legal and General. The husband was diagnosed with terminal cancer but when they claimed on the policy on the terminal disease clause the insurance company pointed out the small print in the policy that barred activating the clause if the policy had less than a year to run. This clause isn't in the latest policies but they refused to make an exception. In essence this makes the policy worthless.
I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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Just listening to Martin Lewis. He had a man on the line in despair because he was being chased for £60,000 in accrued interest because he was changing his mortgage. The poor bugger was in tears. Martin told him that after a call from the programme the bank had scrubbed the charges. Great news and a good story but it sends a clear message that the client that he or she is powerless. It's terrible that one call from the programme can solve a problem that easily. The system is horrible!
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I see those sort of situations and the responses received after intervention every Saturday in The Times. The inability of these companies and other organisations to follow correct procedures is diabolical.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

Post by Stanley »

See THIS Daily Express account of the HMRC report of the rise in the number of pensioners accessing their pension pot before retirement. We've noted this trend before. I wonder what the totals are now? I suspect they are high enough to make a significant difference to retirement income in the future.
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Re: BEWARE! THE BANKS ARE OUT TO GET YOU!

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I'm not posting this to celebrate Musk but to quote the stellar sums of money that some people now `own'...
`Elon Musk becomes world's second richest person' LINK
`...Mr Musk's net worth jumped by $7.2bn (£5.4bn) to $128bn after shares in his car firm Tesla surged....Bill Gates, who co-founded Microsoft, was the world's richest person for years before Mr Bezos knocked him off the top spot in 2017. Mr Gates's fortune is worth $127.7bn but would be higher had he not donated large sums to charity over the decades. Jeff Bezos's net worth is estimated at £182bn by Bloomberg. He too has seen his personal fortune rise this year as demand for Amazon's services climbed in the pandemic..'.

It's more shocking when you spell out the amounts instead of using `bn'...Bezos = $182,000,000,000
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