ENERGY MATTERS

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Stanley
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ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 24 Jan 2012, 06:09

Tiz posted recently on the decision he has to make about his new boiler because it is oil-fired, they have no mains gas. As energy prices rise we have to remember that some consumers are particularly hard hit and we are all chasing economy. I'm completely out of touch with motoring costs these days as I have kicked mine into touch but wonder how people can afford the prices I see posted at the pumps. How is this affecting anyone who has to commute? What can they do to keep the costs down?
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Whyperion » 24 Jan 2012, 21:35

I See Coryton Oil Refinery's Swiss owner Petroplus is in administration ( It also owns a distribution depot on Teesside ) not certain of full reasons but one given was price of crudes rising but lower demand for refined products, meaning critical volume of sales to cover fixed costs are not happening. Never Mind the Chinese State have bought at stake in Thames Water , nice to see all the former conservative views on the market economy reverting towards state ownership ( just not owned by the UK state )

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 25 Jan 2012, 05:10

The 'expert' wheeled in to comment about the Coryton refinery forecast a diesel price of £1.43 by the end of the week but the refinery is still working and making a profit. I agree with Brad in another topic, sounds like a care to jack prices up. They are out to get us! I feel sorry for people who have to run a car to commute.
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tardis » 25 Jan 2012, 10:34

Here?

At a meeting yesterday where it was mentioned that anedotal evidence suggests that the Solar PV's put on the council house stock are showing savings of up to 25% on normal electricity usage through the winter.

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 26 Jan 2012, 07:13

The solar panel companies won their appeal in the courts yesterday and the deadline for qualifying for the old subsidy has been put back to March where it was before instead of being cut off in January 12th. Further, they are attacking the prohibition on district schemes run by housing associations etc. which stops 'multiple roof' installations.
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 26 Jan 2012, 11:15

I heard that several managers from PV manufacturing companies made very good submissions which countered the governments claims that they were making disproportionate profits from the sale of PV cells and they were able to show it was the consumers buying systems for their roof who were getting the bonus. These are `good' companies whereas there was one man (described as `shiny suit') from the dodgy companies that rent your roof for their own PV cells and he was, shall we say, less convincing!

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Pluggy » 26 Jan 2012, 13:04

The government is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea on FITs. At one side is fuel poverty or more specifically the 'green subsidy' element of everyones fuel bills and the PV industry on the other crying foul because they were trying to address the balance too harshly. The bottom line is at todays prices for an installation and a FIT of 43.3p / kwh, PV is a bargain. The return on investment is around 7 or 8 years, and the remaining 17 or 18 years of the 25 is profit. It makes keeping money in high interest building society accounts look like a mugs game. They aren't a bad investment at the reduced subsidy the government is proposing.

The case for PV panels in the UK is questionable at the very best. They are a complete non starter without the subsidy of FIT. They generate next to nothing/nothing at all in drizzle and on heavily overcast days. They probably take more energy to manufacture , ship and fit than they'll generate in 25 years of UK weather. And yes, I have some on my roof......... :grin:
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 27 Jan 2012, 06:07

Hard lick Plugs but at least you are trying! It is a source of constant amazement to me that there are still houses with no insulation at all, not even minimal loft cover. Perhaps it is nearing the time when it should be made illegal not to attempt at least rudimentary energy saving. I see from Tardis' post that the Council are proposing to spend £4,000 on an infra red detector. Sounds like a sensible start to me. When we have snow it's quite instructive to note the roofs it melts off the quickest.
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Pluggy » 27 Jan 2012, 08:27

I have no regrets about the panels, but they are a financial investment, not a means of saving the planet.
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 28 Jan 2012, 06:36

I doubt if any of us can do that Plugs. When they re-roofed the outshut workshop at East Hill Street I persuaded them to fill the restricted space with insulation fleece while it was accessible. It really did make a difference. Won't save the planet but at least I showed willing.
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Whyperion » 29 Jan 2012, 01:52

Pluggy makes the comment re cost (energy) of production , with no data to back it up. Now since i dont know the Kvh required to make the things either I will instead comment that , with the exception of fuel costs to transport the items and raw materials, if the electric used in manufacture is taken from Nuclear ( as necessary evil and difficult to switch on and off grid so part of the base load , and hydro system again free apart from human running costs at present time ) , then there is a little bit of the PV becoming a true investment in the future , what happens in 25 years do these things wear out , or do they last much longer ?

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tripps » 29 Jan 2012, 10:55

Yes - there were some trial bore holes being done in the Newcastle (North East ) region. Started last year. It was in the media, but I don't know if it was successful. Sounds like 'all good' to me. I think it is also in use in Ireland.
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 31 Jan 2012, 07:29

From Geothermal Energy overview on Wiki:
"In addition to using geothermally heated aquifers, Hot-Dry-Rock geothermal technology can be used to heat water pumped below ground onto geothermally heated rock. Starting in 1977, trials of the technology were undertaken at Rosemanowes Quarry, near Penryn, Cornwall.

In 2008 a planning application was submitted for a hot rocks project on the site of a former cement works at Eastgate, near Stanhope in County Durham. The geothermal plant will heat the UK's first geothermal energy model village.[5]

In 2010 planning permission for a commercial-scale geothermal power plant was granted by Cornwall Council.[6] The plant will be constructed on the United Downs industrial estate near Redruth by Geothermal Engineering Ltd. The plant will produce 10MW of electricity and 55MW of renewable heat.

On 18 December 2010 The Eden Project in Cornwall was given permission to build a Hot Rock Geothermal Plant. Drilling is expected to in 2011 with electricity being produced from the second half of 2013. The plant will be on the north side of the Eden Project, a showcase for environmental projects at Bodelva, near St Austell. It should produce up to 4 megawatts of electricity for use by Eden with a surplus, enough for about 5,000 houses, going in to the National Grid.[7]"
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Pluggy » 31 Jan 2012, 10:46

Looks like I've been reading sceptic websites. This site http://info.cat.org.uk/questions/pv/wha ... -panels-uk suggests the energy payback for the manufacture of PV panels is only around 2.5 years in the UK. PV panels don't have a set life, they gradually lose efficiency (about 1% per year by all accounts) as they get older, this is if the mechanical housing stays intact and doesn't allow water ingress. They are usually expected to last 25 years with a 10 year guarantee. The expensive bit with a shorter life is the inverter (about the price of 3 panels) , usually expected to live 10 years with a 5 year guarantee so they are expected to be renewed during the FIT period. Really dull day today, my panels haven't got out of bed yet.
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by catgate » 03 Feb 2012, 11:56

It looks as though our wonderful "Energy Secretary" is going to need all the energy he can get in the very next future.
I don't really like Watt he's been up to. He seems to have broken up a happy Ohm and Currently he looks as though he's due to have Amp le time to ponder the Charge.

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Whyperion » 04 Feb 2012, 01:39

Transdev/Mainline Wants Feedback

Just Seen this from 10th January

Calling all our Burnley & Pendle customers - whether it's Witch Way, Mainline or Starship we would like your assistance.
As part of a new project between Transdev Burnley & Pendle and Lancashire County Council, we want your feedback on services and infrastructure (bus stops, information etc).This will allow us to identify the potential for future improvements.
This is an innovative European funded project called Enerqi which stands for Energy efficiency by using daily customer quality observations to improve public transport.
The aim of Enerqi is to involve you, our customers, in the development and improvement of bus service provision in your local area.
We are looking for regular travellers to volunteer. All you need to do is answer a simple on line questionnaire on a regular basis covering a wide range of quality related issues on the Transdev Burnley & Pendle services you are already using.
Your time, commitment and comments are very valuable to both partners and will help shape the future quality of bus service provision in the Burnley and Pendle areas.
To find out more and to take part in this exciting project you can register
online at www.enerqi-online.eu or email enerqiproject@lancashire.gov.uk
The Enerqi project is co funded by the Intelligent Energy Europe programme.

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Pluggy » 04 Feb 2012, 08:17

The delights of Solar PV panels after a cloudless day:
Image
Electricity meter at 08:00 yesterday morning
Image
At 08:00 this morning. We used -2 units yesterday........
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 04 Feb 2012, 17:10

Pluggy, the self-build fraternity are tending to compare the PV/FiT with an annuity rather than an interest-bearing account because you don't get your capital back with a FiT.

I notice the comments about `saving the planet' but (as James Lovelock points out) the planet doesn't need saving, climate change is just it's feedback mechanism stabilising it in a different state. The planet will still be here, just hotter. What we do need to save is the human race, or civilisation, whatever you want to call us. `Life as we know it', perhaps.

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by catgate » 04 Feb 2012, 17:56

Tizer wrote:.
....... What we do need to save is the human race, or civilisation, whatever you want to call us. `Life as we know it', perhaps.
Are you really sure about that?????? :confused:

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 04 Feb 2012, 18:47

Well Catty, I suppose it's a bit like not using pesticides in my garden so as not to wipe out the little bugs...but then the little bugs aren't responsible for lousy TV programmes, Ipads, BlackBerrys, mobile phones, bank bonuses, Fred Goodwin, Terry was-is-name the footballer, Adolf Hitler....

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Bradders Bluesinger » 04 Feb 2012, 19:50

Marvin , the Paranoid Android might say ....
"the next million years 'll be the worst"...
".....brain the size of a planet , and all I get to do is check the air-con now and then "
...."that , and opening heavier doors"
Last edited by Bradders Bluesinger on 05 Feb 2012, 00:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by catgate » 04 Feb 2012, 21:12

Tizer wrote:Well Catty, I suppose it's a bit like not using pesticides in my garden so as not to wipe out the little bugs...but then the little bugs aren't responsible for lousy TV programmes, Ipads, BlackBerrys, mobile phones, bank bonuses, Fred Goodwin, Terry was-is-name the footballer, Adolf Hitler....
You are quite right, although you must admit that some bigger buggers are responsible.
As mankind becomes more "civilised" and be "given more liberty" he certainly seems to become much less likeable in many ways.

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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 05 Feb 2012, 04:35

Tiz, quite right. I know some very nice people I would like to protect, no matter how ineffective my efforts might seem. One of the reasons why I congratulated Plugs on his efforts to reduce consumption and be more energy efficient. Not to do so is a policy of despair and I don't do despair!
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Pluggy » 05 Feb 2012, 13:54

Its pretty bright again now, but the panels aren't doing too well because they're covered in snow, stupid idea them being on the roof, where its difficult to brush them them off............. :laugh5:

I see the some Tory MPs are rebelling against the FIT for wind turbines (slack news day). I read http://www.pcmswitch.co.uk/Mps-double-s ... y6JyRI9VtI about an MP campaigning against Wind turbines in his consituency, whilst planning to erect some on his own farm in someone elses constituency. Nice to see hypocrisy is alive and kicking in the world of politics
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Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Pluggy » 05 Feb 2012, 14:08

Tizer wrote:Well Catty, I suppose it's a bit like not using pesticides in my garden so as not to wipe out the little bugs...but then the little bugs aren't responsible for lousy TV programmes, Ipads, BlackBerrys, mobile phones, bank bonuses, Fred Goodwin, Terry was-is-name the footballer, Adolf Hitler....
Got a downer on technology Tiz ?, Ipads, Blackberrys and mobile phones at the top of the list. I'm often grateful I'm getting old, because if technology moves as far in the next 40 years as its come in the last 40, we'll be in a bad way. Once computers become self aware, I don't give much for anyone's chances. (I tend to subscribe to the Babylon 5 view of the future, rather than the Star Trek version if you hadn't noticed)
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