ENERGY MATTERS

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 29 Apr 2018, 06:39

I'm still enjoying the freedom of not being tied to the clock for free leccy. I'm more efficient now that I can spread the load without feeling I am losing out on the free juice.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9536
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 29 Apr 2018, 09:58

My latest solar generation graph, from 2nd Jan to 28th April 2018. The variability from day to day reflects the typical British weather! The zero readings are due to snow covering the panels. My 16 panels are divided equally between east and west facing roofs.

Image

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 30 Apr 2018, 03:27

It's a good rising trend Tiz!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9536
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 30 Apr 2018, 08:37

It's going to be interesting to see how the curve changes over summer and into autumn. It's a complicated relationship dependent on several factors including the panels being split between two opposite facing roofs. :smile:

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 01 May 2018, 03:17

Only thing to watch is whether they are crediting you correctly for energy pumped back into the grid.... Not sure how that works...
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9536
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 01 May 2018, 16:03

Every 3 months I get an email from EDF asking me for a reading from our Feed In Tariff (FIT) meter. I log it in on their web page. They then do checks and eventually send us a payment and a breakdown of the figures. It's all very carefully scrutinised because they're worried about people gaming the system. Inspectors can come and check your reading are correct.

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 02 May 2018, 03:18

I was visited by a nice man yesterday who read my leccy meter. I asked him if he read many 'smart meters' and he said yes. He also told me I was on a cheap night time tariff which was news to me, he had to read the meter twice and get two readings. I shall be talking to BG about this and asking how it affects my tariff......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9536
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 02 May 2018, 09:00

Is it an Economy 7 tariff? If so, you will be paying a higher rate than normal for your day time usage. It's only `cheap' if you use a lot of leccy at night.... LINK

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 03 May 2018, 03:41

I don't know and that is what the latest stage in my communications with the 'Complaints Team' is about. I have also asked them how they propose to charge me for my monthly usage if the meter isn't reporting. I suspect that I am on a normal tariff but the system has only been taking one reading from the leccy meter when it's running on two readings and that explains why they were undercharging me for leccy which was what led to the recent problem. I have asked them that as well!
The meter reader hinted that 'they do not understand the smart meters' when he was here.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

plaques
Donor
Posts: 2818
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by plaques » 03 May 2018, 07:53

I'm not absolutely sure of this detail but it has been suggested that 'smart' meters measure electricity usage in KVA rather than KW that the old meters read. The implication is that by taking into account the power factor, eg: Stanley's electric motor effect, we now pay for the actual power supplied rather than assumed power factor of 1. Perhaps one of our experts can explain this better than I can.

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9536
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 03 May 2018, 11:35

Apparently the Watchdog TV programme has reported that some meters are not being fitted properly and this is leading to dangerous gas leaks in houses.

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 04 May 2018, 02:56

My gas meter is outside so no worries on that one but there seems little doubt now that the Leccy meter is the root of the problems I have been having. It's definitely a bit smarter than BG's systems!
I have asked the right questions, I suspect that the next move will be for me to inform them that I suspect a faulty meter is illegal. I shall wait until I get their response.
By the way, they keep wanting to do all this verbally on the 'phone. I am refusing to accede, all done by letter so I have an audit trail......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Pluggy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 1790
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:13
Location: Barnoldswick
Contact:

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Pluggy » 04 May 2018, 08:54

Regarding VA vs watts and metering, Large industrial users do have VA metering or at least are required to keep their power factor close to 1 or they pay more (cue the big banks of capacitors to balance all the inductive loads). It isn't true to say that the difference between real and apparent power is consumed, its reflected back to the grid and (in theory at least is dissipated in the windings of the generator, practically its lost as heat in the distribution system). It has to be generated and it goes to waste, but it isn't consumed by the user, so whether the user has to pay for for it is debatable. Domestic users aren't generally large AC motor users and most high use electric appliances use most of it for heating, so its a pure resistive load so the power factor is 1 or close to 1 anyway. Low use items like most electronic tat, fluorescent and LED lighting usually has a poor power factor, (interestingly at least if you're a geek, is that florescent lighting is largely inductive, but LED is largely capacitive, so they'll cancel each other out if you have both) but the percentage of the total household use isn't worth bothering about in most cases. Perhaps VA metering should be an option for domestic users and a kVAh costs less than a kWh..... Further complication to what is already beyond the comprehension for most people.

Old school filament lighting does have a good power factor but 300W at a PF of 1 is a lot worse than 30W with a 0.5 PF (60VA). .

Regarding smart meters, personally I'd pay a lot more attention to the bill which tells you what tariff you're on, how and much the energy company has established you've used, rather than what some bloody computer sat on your kitchen top is saying.
Pluggy's Home Monitor : http://pluggy.duckdns.org
Barlick Computers : http://barlickcomputers.co.uk

plaques
Donor
Posts: 2818
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by plaques » 04 May 2018, 12:03

Thanks for that Pluggy, I suspected it was a bit of scare mongering. There is something reassuring about seeing a meter wheel spinning round rather than some magic box that is supposed to send real time data back to the supplier etc etc.

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 05 May 2018, 03:52

From the evidence I have seen so far the meter reader was correct when he said the suppliers don't understand smart meters......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 7764
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by PanBiker » 05 May 2018, 16:11

Received an email this morning to confirm our switch to Octopus for our dual fuel. I have kept the boiler maintenance with BG.
Ian

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 2909
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tripps » 10 May 2018, 09:13

PanBiker wrote:
05 May 2018, 16:11
Received an email this morning to confirm our switch to Octopus for our dual fuel
I've been with Octopus for just over a year now, and until today would have recommended them unreservedly. I realised today, that they had not prompted me for my end of month (April) meter readings as they have previously done. I looked on the web, and found that they have not debited me for fuel used, and that I have a large credit balance.

Immediate Stewards Enquiry - phone call shows that they mistakenly put a fixed end date to the 'variable tariff' which I chose when I joined in April 2017, and that resulted in no prompting emails, and hence no new meter readings, and subsequent payments. Not sure how long the situation would have continued if I hadn't realised what was going on.

I phoned them and gave them my meter readings (which I take for my own records) and the matter was sorted . They sent an updated statement by immediate email. I now owe them money which is as it should be at this time of year. They say it was all their fault, have updated my account, and have given me a credit of £15 for my trouble.

I think I'd still recommend them. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9536
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 10 May 2018, 10:16

Perhaps the government should regulate that all such compensation, refunds etc should be paid out of directors' bonuses!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 11 May 2018, 03:25

Quite right Tiz, no 'perhaps' about it!
David, funny you should mention that! I have had no response to my last letter and have it on my 'to do' list for action this day!
A mixture of under staffing and incompetence?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Big Kev
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 2489
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:15
Location: Barlick

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Big Kev » 11 May 2018, 09:36

Npower have just announced a price increase, glad I fixed for 3 years a couple of weeks ago :biggrin2:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44081593
Kev

A Resigned Observer

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 12 May 2018, 02:41

I think I set mine after the BG increase Kev but the way things are going it's not going to fall!
I sent a reminder letter to BG yesterday. I don't think they like me rubbishing their smart meter! I have an idea they don't want to admit it is reading wrongly.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 46007
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Stanley » 14 May 2018, 13:33

This is going to be a complicated post but take notice of it, there could be money in it for you!
I don't normally answer the phone in the morning after 11AM but broke my rule this morning. It was the lady from BG who has been dealing with my complaint. (By the way I shall be printing this comment and attaching it to the complaints file for future reference as a contemporaneous note of the contents of the call.....) I shall be as brief as possible.
She reassured me that I was on the cheapest rate available and that in future I shall be invoiced each month for the energy used. I asked if the 'smart meter' would have to be read by the meter man, she said it would happen "if he was in the area so that he could check the accuracy of the meter". She kept asking me if I was happy and I kept telling her no, I had no reason to be and had no confidence in the accuracy of their electricity meter. I asked her if both day and night readings would be combined in my bill and she said"She said yes but that the night reading would be taken but not charged for.
Read that again! That's right, See this LINK for an explanation of the tariff and how to read the meter. This means that although I am not certain of the switching times, it's a good bet that it's between 10pm and 6AM. So the time for cooking or other heavy use is after you have gone to bed.

My reading of this is that whilst she didn't admit it, their system can't handle a smart meter that is set up to read day and night tariffs separately and so to avoid the position I was in with a massive bill for £520 they are simply going to ignore the usage. I find it incredible but I can assure you that she said it was free. Check and see if you are in the same position.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Big Kev
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 2489
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:15
Location: Barlick

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Big Kev » 14 May 2018, 14:28

Not sure on the details of the Economy 7 meter you have but...

As a general rule of thumb you would need to use more than 40% of your electricity at night to make Economy 7 cost effective. Some Economy 7 plans charge almost twice the standard night rate for any electricity used in the day, which can cancel out the benefits of the cheap electricity you get at night.
The more electricity you use at night and the less you use in the day, the more money you will save with Economy 7.

An Economy 7 tariff is best suited to people who have electric storage heaters and a hot water tank. The idea is that you heat up the electric storage heaters overnight and that they slowly emit the heat the next day, and that you heat all your hot water for the next day overnight too.

If you heat your home and water with electricity, but don't have storage heaters or a hot water tank, Economy 7 probably won't be so cost effective for you.

If you heat your home and water with gas, Economy 7 could still be a good fit you for you, provided you use the bulk of your electricity at night.

To make the most of Economy 7 it helps if appliances like your dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer have a timer so that you can run them overnight, when your electricity is cheaper.

The important bit is...

If you're wondering when does Economy 7 start, it is usually either 11.00pm to 6.00am, 12.00am to 7.00am or 1.00am to 8.00am. However this can vary according to where you live and your energy supplier.

At what time of day are you in shed using electrical equipment?

I'm sure BG would ensure you are on the correct tariff, it just sounds a bit odd to me...
Kev

A Resigned Observer

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9536
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tizer » 14 May 2018, 16:02

And odd to me too. I agree with Kev's details about economy 7 type tariffs. This is why a couple of weeks ago when Stanley said the leccy man visited and told him he was on a cheap tariff I asked if it was economy 7 one. You get cheap leccy in the night but you can end up paying a higher than normal rate for the day so that there isn't a benefit unless you use a lot at night. But I don't understand why they say they are not going to charge him for the night-time usage. They might write off the previous night use as a concession but surely they'll charge for future use?

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 2909
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: ENERGY MATTERS

Post by Tripps » 14 May 2018, 16:58

I'm not sure of the detail, ( there is usually wine involved when we socialise :smile: ) but next door has had a 'smart' meter fitted recently. I seem to recall that they said it couldn't cope with their economy seven tarriff, and that they would have to revert to a fixed rate.
Since they have night storage heaters - I thought was a strange course of action. I recall trying to get them to have gas installed.


I clipped this comment from somewhere - It fits my opinion exactly -

"And now you have the energy companies trying to force smart meters on homes. What they smart meter sellers don’t tell you is they don’t just measure electricity, they are able to ration it. Never going to be one in my house."
Born to be mild. . .

Post Reply

Return to “Current Affairs & Comment”