Hemp Butts Cottages

[brownpjcm]

My Great, Great Grandfather, William Brown was born in Barnoldswick in 1813. He's recorded in the censuses up to 1891 and lived, at least for part of the time, in Hemp Butts Cottages. I assume these were located near Butts Mill. He was an "Engine Driver" at a (un-named) cotton mill. His widowed mother, Margaret (born c.1786), was living with him in 1851. Please, does anyone have any information about Hemp Butts Cottages and/or William?
His son, also William, moved to Manchester and became a draper.

[Stanley]

Strange, haven't I seen this p[ost before and it was answered?

[Wendyf]

I don't think so Stanley, I have searched for Hemp Butts in the old site and on here and though there are a few references to the cottages they concern other family names.
I have never heard the name before, so I cant help I'm afraid.

Wendy

[brownpjcm]

Thanks to you both. I haven't posted this request previously. I'm a new member. I would like to know if the cottages still exist or, if not, where they were located. My line of the Brown family is descended from a son of the William Brown born in 1813. However, although this son migrated to Manchester, it seems there were siblings who remained in Barnoldswick and, maybe, their descendents are still in the area.

[Wendyf]

Welcome to the site, I'm afraid your user name might have made us a bit suspicious. I'm sure Stanley will be able to help more, especially if you give us a name to talk to!
Looking at the 1881 census on Ancestry,Hemp Butts comes after the Railway Inn and before Wellhouse Square. I cant find a street map online to pinpoint it exactly, and it doesn't seem to be on modern maps.

[brownpjcm]

Wendy,

My name is John Brown and I'm researching ancestors' details on my father's side. I couldn't find a clue to the location of Hemp Butts other than references to Butts Mill. It seems that hemp butts were fields where hemp was grown, presumably before the focus locally changed to cotton. My great, great grandfather (William Brown) was an "engine driver" at a cotton mill, according to the census. Although my great grandfather (also William) migrated to Manchester, and that's where I spent most of my childhood, we now live in Coverdale, North Yorkshire...not that far from Barnoldswick. So, nothing to be suspicious about and I would welcome any information which might assist my project

[Wendyf]

Thanks John. Someone must know if these cottages still exist!

[brownpjcm]

Thanks!

[Stanley]

1861 census William Brown recorded as living in Hemp Butts cottages 48 years, engine driver. Butts built 1845 so location of Hemp Butts cottages would most likely be on the east side of Butts where the old stables were, between what is now B&D Model Joinery works and the end of the cottages on the slope up to Church Street.
Brown is an old name in Barlick and William could be related to the Browns who were engineers in Earby and Barlick. A Brown was in partnership with Watts at Ouzledale foundry in the last years of the 19th C. In 1861 Mark Brown, William Brown's son, was 17 years old. In the LTP transcript 78/AB/03 Billy Brooks says that He was engineer on the beam engine at Clough Shed c. 1890. (Engine driving ran in families because the fathers taught the sons the job). There is a suggestion that William Brown was engineer at Butts under William Bracewell, this makes sense as he lived next to the mill (built 1845). The mill had a large double beam engine most likely by Yates of Blackburn and this would have been a top job.

[brownpjcm]

Stanley, thank you for this useful information. I don't expect you know of any photographs of the cottages, do you?
Strangely enough, after a period in the textile industry, my father became a mechanical engineer and I'm a retired civil engineer...so it seems William's engineering genes are still active!
As Barnoldswick was in Yorkshire, are the parish records in Northallerton or, because it's now Lancashire, are they in Preston?
It seems that great, great grandfather William (born 1813) was married twice, as his wife in the 1851 and 1861 censuses is too young for some of the children recorded. I want to check this and also see if I can find out more about his mother, Margaret (born 1786) who, as a widow, was living with him in 1851.

Thanks again for your assistance.

[Stanley]

Look for Henry Brown and Sons in the site search engine. Later Henry Brown Sons and Pickles.
Barlick records can be a problem, Early docs are at Wakefield, Northallerton and the Yorkshire Archaeological Society in Leeds.
I've never seen any pics of Butts apart from Butts Mill. This would be the view from the cottages.



The broken wall on the right is where the old mortuary is now and at that time was the old village pound for stray animals.



The old stables in Butts in 1982. This is the most likely site for Hemp Butts cottages.

[elise]

Hemp Butts comes after the Railway Inn and before Wellhouse Square

As you mentioned earlier Wendy this is the route the enumerator took:

Folio 12 page 18 Railway Inn

Folio 13 page 19 Hemp Butts (11 houses)

Folio 14 page 21 Hemp Butts Gardens (12 houses)

Folio 15 page 23 Wellhouse Square (34 houses).

In this area there is Railway Street and Wellhouse Street (neither mentioned in the census) and a short row of cottages on Wellhouse Road just past the turning onto Wellhouse Street plus the area taken up by the fire station/a terrace row/
co-operative street

[Wendyf]

In the 1841 Census William's wife is Mary. I have found a possible marriage on freebmd between William Brown and Alice Thursby, registered in Skipton March Qtr 1854 9a 35. On the 1851 census Alice Thursby, 17, born in Carlton, is a visitor with a family called Stott in Spotland. (possibly her sister).

[Whyperion]

Does the 1845 OS Map help , Butts is labelled on the map , with further buildings and streets to the east thereof. The Engine Inn is also shown ( more recently named The Railway )

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environmen ... /barny.jpg

[Wendyf]

Thanks for the map Whyperion. I've been back & looked at the district on the 1861 census (there are no street names on the 1841 or 1851) together with the map,and have formed a better idea of where the cottages might have been.
The enumerator in 1861 went to Carrs & West Close Farm, then to the Corn Mill at Wellhouse, the Parsonage, then Hemp Gardens and Hemp Butts followed by Croft House and the Engine Inn.

[elise]

This confirms the approx. position of Hemp Butts, the enumerator had done the route of the 1881 census in reverse.

[Wendyf]

Do you think that the name of the cottages has changed Elise, or that they have been replaced with new houses?
In the 1901 census their address is Park Terrace on Rainhall Road, is that pretty much in the same area?

[brownpjcm]

Thanks to Stanley, Wendyf, Whyperion and Elise for all the information you've provided. It's moved my research on considerably.

Regards, John Brown

[Wendyf]

I'm still looking for Hemp Butts Cottages, so don't go away yet John!
In the 1861 census the enumerator visits a blacksmith's forge when he is in the middle of the row of Hemp Butts Cottages, and the master blacksmith lives in one of the cottages. I was looking at the 1894 1:2,500 map and there is a smithy marked in the triangle of land formed by what is now Skipton Road, Station Road & Fernlea Avenue. The smithy is behind the cottages on Skipton Road. Looking on Google Street view, I can peep down what seems to be called Back Skipton Road, and there are old cottages at the back as well as on the main road. Could these possibly have been Hemp Butts Cottages? The proximity of The Railway and Croft House suggest that they were very close to this spot.

[Whyperion]

Stanley posts the transcript (?) of Old Barlick by William Atkinson , http://oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk/viewtopi ... =58&t=6868 , which rapidly runs through the building of cottages around 1851 , though these constructions would appear to be on the opposite side of church street , and earlier building is not specified as such. So does this mean Hemp Butts built before 1851 but not thought important or obvious enough to mention , or built later and and detail not thought worth recording with the general increase in town building ?

Stanley's own history http://oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk/viewtopi ... ory#p13323 mentions the name of Heriff's Butts , was this further north along the existing area of Butts ? Or did the eneumerator ( they are not always local , mishear the locality - were road or place names common even in 1850s ? ) get the name wrong or mis spelled and Heriff Butts and Hemp Butts the same place ?

[Wendyf]

I think I've got it!
Hemp Butts Cottages still exist in the 1891 census and the families who live there turn up in the 1901 census living at the same numbers on Skipton Road. The families living in Hemp Butts Gardens reappear in Forresters Buildings.
Phew, that was a marathon.

[Whyperion]

So , if on Skipton Road are they now under the Church or behind it ?

[Stanley]

Well done everyone. The thing that intrigues me about this detective work which has demolished my theory that the cottages were actually in Butts is that it feeds into the old controversy over the name Butts which I have always contended could just as easily refer to a field system as an archery training ground because 'butts' is a common suffix for names of individual strips within such a system. I think the name Hemp Butts still looks as though it derives from this source and it looks as though such a field system, if it existed, extended over the top of the hill between Butts and Skipton Road. This fits in with some clues I got when I was researching the CHSC because it appeared that the ownership of land in Butts was originally connected with the old Wellhouse Farm that used to stand on Church Street. All the signs were that the landholding originally extended northwards form Church Street and if it was originally carved out in the 16th century enclosures this would fit as it seems if there was a field system in the town (and there almost certainly was) Wellhouse Farm was formed by taking over the majority of this land. It all makes sense. Incidentally, though early, we know the enclosures were completed in the 16th century because they are marked on the 1580 map associated with the dispute between Foulridge and Barnoldswick. One more reinforcement is the siting of such a system covering the top of a hill. This is exactly the same topography as the field systems clearly shown on the Bracewell Estate map, it looks as though such siting was favoured round here possibly because of considerations like orientation and drainage. One further point, when John Clayton and I were puzzling over the 1580 map I came up with evidence that the slopes of hillsides were favoured for farming because they suffered less from frost gathering in very cold winters. The small hill between Skipton Road and Butts tocks all the boxes of proximity to the settlement and micro-climate. Nice!
A perfect example of cooperation in research and also my oft-repeated public health warning that research alters conclusions!

[Wendyf]

Just one problem with my theory.... the cottages on Skipton Road were odd numbers 1 to 17 and the houses there now are even numbers finishing with the vets at 16/18. Where did the odd numbers go?

[Whyperion]

So they are under the church , anyone got the records for the building of the church and the land etc acquired , presumably the cottages were of less substantial construction , for easy demolition , foundations , if any , are probably under the grassy hill bit , and I would guess some of the building materials re used in the construction of the Church. ?Or they could be beyond the existing Skipton Road buildings , was the Smithy (though in 1894 that could be a later relocation ? ) in the accessway adjoining the Vets where there are some domestic garages and other current day low use buildings.