Hemp Butts Cottages

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Wendyf
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Wendyf » 21 Aug 2012, 09:34

No Whyperion, there is nothing on the other side of the road on the 1894 map and the buildings are exactly the same on the 1905 map. There are no even numbers listed for Skipton Road in the 1901 census either. I am heading for the 1911 census.

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Wendyf » 21 Aug 2012, 10:07

1911 census shows that the numbering was changed. Hartley Waterworth, who had a greengrocers at number15 in 1901 is now number 12. James Watson was 13, is now 10. At the new number 6, James Hartley, House Furnisher, 9 has been written first then crossed out.
Number 7, which is where I think William Brown must have lived, is still there! I wonder if it was round the back? It is just a 2 room house amongst larger ones.
Then there is 4 and 2.

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Whyperion » 21 Aug 2012, 18:25

Should we put a plaque up on the buildings to remember older names ?
Thanks for looking into things , but why renumber ? were further buildings constructed elsewhere that warrented being No 1 , 3 etc ? ( no need to look immediately its more of a musing question )

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by PanBiker » 21 Aug 2012, 18:50

It looks like the town planners of the day renumbered as was necessary. Remember the tussle we had in sorting out the Kelbrook address on Colne Road a few months ago. Makes sense really with the massive expansion of housing that towns went through, particularly the ones like Barlick where bits were added on to existing rows and housing groups, hand in hand with new build terraces. I often wonder if anyone has recorded all the original names of many of the terraces in town that have been assimilated into the main arterial routes. Rainhall Road has lots of individually named blocks. Another aspect would be the why's and wherefores of the street names, many named after children. Alice, Bessie and Robert on the croft, Ethel, James, John, Cecil, Colin elsewhere. Areas such as Parrock, Forresters, Syke, Wellhouse, Havre. We have discussed many of these in the past but I wonder if someone has already researched it all.
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by elise » 21 Aug 2012, 19:29

PanBiker wrote:many named after children. Alice, Bessie and Robert on the croft, Ethel, James, John, Cecil, Colin elsewhere.
Adults?

PARROCK - Paddock, croft, enclosure
FORRESTERS - Local self-help society http://www.forestersfriendlysociety.co. ... s/history/
SYKE- The stream that runs under The Fosters Arms
HAVRE- Danish word for oats. The New Mill millers log book of 1736 shows that oats were grown in large quantities.

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by PanBiker » 21 Aug 2012, 20:13

Thanks for your post Elise. I am aware of the meanings as we have discussed most at one point or another on the site over the last number of years. I gave them as examples and wondered if a general study had been done on similar lines in the town. I would certainly make interesting reading.
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Whyperion » 22 Aug 2012, 02:25

Yes , but its nice to have the definitions to hand for new readers.

Image

Skipton Road , looking towards town centre , image will scale up quite well , its on wikimedia with a date of 1990 and a copyright for Dr Neil Clifton.

In the meantime , can someone remind me what kinds of materials were commonly used in say the 10th to 16th centuries for the making of bow strings ? And come to that how the strings might have to have been manufactured from some of the said materials. Any good source of Yew trees nearby and what could the smithy be making ?
Last edited by Whyperion on 22 Aug 2012, 08:06, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Stanley » 22 Aug 2012, 03:27

Ian, between 1885 when Billycock died and the Bracewell hegemony was broken and 1914 Barlick was transformed and at that time Barlick also got a Local Board and started to make its own decisions. The local councillors did a wonderful job when you think of it. Think about what they had on their plate, laying out new streets to the latest standards, installing water, gas and sewers and generally overseeing the anthill of construction of new houses and mills. In the very early days we came under Skipton Rural District and one little snippet in Atkinson gives a hint of the discontent in the town. He complained about the fact that SRDC had made no provision for a pavement in front of Mitchell Terrace on Manchester Road and when I walk up there I reflect that the error was never put right!. No wonder that a bit of confusion crept in with things like house numbers and street names.
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Wendyf » 22 Aug 2012, 07:33

Numbers, 7 and 17 survived the re-numbering. 17 is still there in Back Skipton Road, and there is a 6a, which presumably was once 7.
I can't say for certain which one William Brown lived in as the numbers weren't listed until after he left. He came next in the census to Henrietta Thrippleton who lived at no 5,(4) the alleyway to number 7 comes next, so they may have lived there, or was it 9 (6)across the alleyway?

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by PanBiker » 22 Aug 2012, 07:36

Whyperion wrote:Yes , but its nice to have the definitions to hand for new readers.
Yes it is and it would be even better if someone had done a full survey, which was the original point of my question.

You are dead right about the planners in charge at the time Stanley. It must have been a logistical nightmare when you think about it. The 1856 Map shows how little of Barlick was developed at that time. Evolution is probably a better way to look at the street naming and numbering. Individual rows of terraces would be named when they were stand alone and then renamed when effectively linked as the thoroughfares were established.

Posted on the old site but also worth repeating. Ever wondered why there is often a step in the roof-lines roughly in the middle of terraced rows? They built from either end in order to speed up the work and make sure they were not under each others feet. Divide and conquer. No laser levelling or niceties such as that. Simple string lines, plumb bobs and rack of the eye. Not surprising that there was often a little error when they met in the middle. You can see it more often on the longer rows particularly if they are also on an incline.
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Whyperion » 22 Aug 2012, 08:03

Naming that bit of the road , Skipton Road , seems slightly illogical , given the bend at the junction with Gisburn Road , even without the ?later? Fernlea Avenue. Incorporating it into the name of Skipton Road , seems a little bit of trying to improve the sound of the highways in the late Victorian Age.

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by PanBiker » 22 Aug 2012, 08:54

I does have a dog leg but all part of the main arterial route between Colne and Skipton through the town which are the two nearest market towns either side of Barlick. Perfectly logical to me.
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Wendyf » 22 Aug 2012, 13:36

Here are some pictures taken in Back Skipton Road.
Below is 6a, which must have once been 7.
Image

This was the smithy.
Image

The ginnel through to 6a.
Image

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by elise » 22 Aug 2012, 14:28

Where would Hemp Butts Gardens have been?

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by brownpjcm » 22 Aug 2012, 14:38

Again, many thanks to you all for your information and photographs. I'm very surprised that my great, great grandfather's house has survived. My next move will be to come over to have a look as soon as I'm able.

Thanks. John Brown

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Wendyf » 22 Aug 2012, 15:09

Forrester's Buildings were once Hemp Butts Gardens Elise. William Atkinson talks about Forrester's Buildings being built in 1852, but they don't appear on the census as that until 1901. No problem with the numbering there as is a straight run of 1 to 10 (I think). :confused:

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Stanley » 23 Aug 2012, 05:27

Lovely detective work. Reminds me of the lamp post at Townhead and the ice cream van. Wonderful how much fun you can have once you start to dig and cooperate! We're lucky in Barlick. We still have these small areas of housing which have survived all the redevelopment. The area round Hudson's Yard at the top of Butts and the hamlet at the bottom of Esp Lane are others. The common factor is the seemingly higgledy piggledy layout and in the case of Esp Lane I'm convinced that these are the same footprint as the pre-medieval houses, the others could well be almost as old.
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Stanley » 17 Sep 2012, 08:16

I've been reviewing the topic and I thought this might be useful. It's the Skipton Road area from the 1`892 OS 25" map.

Image
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Wendyf » 17 Sep 2012, 10:17

That's a good clear map Stanley, thank you. It shows the alleyway through to the properties at the back and the gardens in front of Foresters buildings.
There is one of Doreen Crowther's transcribed deeds for Barlick which refers to a strip of land being bought by the railway company which is described as being adjacent to land at Hemp Butts owned by the Foresters Society.

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Stanley » 18 Sep 2012, 05:00

The 1892 map is very informative and has a lot of field names as well. What strikes me is how the small farmhouses still embedded in the townscape on the map plus Wellhouse farm on Church Street and the location of the old Village Green are all adjacent to the land between Skipton Road and Butts. It would be the ideal place for a strip field system and there had to be one somewhere. I think it all reinforces my contention that the name Butts is more likely to refer to strip names than an archery practice ground.
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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Whyperion » 19 Sep 2012, 17:46

Forgetting my OS abbreviations , I asked at the library as I could not find a list using google , anyway they asked the right question and W.M. is not war memorial ( as I thought ), but Water Main. S.P. could be either sewer pipe or signal post , depending on context. This here is obviously Signal Post , I belive the one that was rarely operated as I think only one loco in steam or line of sight for progression across the road was used in practice.

The W.M. point is roughly under the current north-westwards extension of Fernlea Avenue , up to the next map the two railway sidings nearest the engine shed were extended towards Skipton Road , roughly parallel to the extension of Fernlea Avenue.

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Re: Hemp Butts Cottages

Post by Stanley » 20 Sep 2012, 04:49

WM on the 1892 map is almost certainly Weighing Machine. On later maps this was changed to WB for Weighbridge. (LINK)
The signal on the crossing was used frequently and what's more was obsolete and illegal. see the topic on Barlick railway on the archive site. One of Robin Higgin's pictures shows the signal in use and I have an idea it's in one of the header pictures we use now on the site.
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