Hi from a new member and wondering if anybody can help me

[swinny_015]

Hi. Been told about this site from a friend a few weeks ago. Going to find some interesting reading on here! Anyways I live in a cottage approx 200 years old ( guestimation ) and there used to be another cottage built on the side of mine and was wondering if anyone out there maybe help me to source some pictures and dates ☺. Thanks matt

[PanBiker]

Hello Matt and welcome to the site.

Members would need a bit more information as to where your cottage is in order to help I would think. There is a lot of information on the site but ask away and I'm sure the members will do their best to help.

[Stanley]

Welcome to the site Matt. Ian is right, we need more information..... Then we can get in gear.

[Wendyf]

Welcome Matt. Some of us wait patiently for months until a good question like yours comes along. More details please!

[swinny_015]

Brill. Thanks for the welcome I didn't expect such a quick reply. I live a at 30 st James square in Barnoldswick. I have been struggling to find out when my property was built as mine is an addition to the row..... but a neighbour also tells me that there used to be another cottage attached to mine, and I found this interesting. . I have Googled my address to see if it came up with any evidence or pictures but nothing... also I think the neighbour said the council may have pulled it down to change the route of the road..... this is all I know but would be great to get some info on it☺. Thanks matt

[PanBiker]

End house on St James''s not far from me further along the Croft on East View Terrace. I would have assumed that your cottage would have been part of the original build. You are probably aware that you are behind the site of the old parish church, hence the name and at one time the cottages would have looked out onto what was the original town green. There are quite a few pictures of St James's Church on the site and one or two of the Croft area, not sure about the square though. Stanley's 1852 large scale map may well give a few clues. I'm sure he will oblige when he picks up on the post.

[PanBiker]

I found this 1892 map in the Gallery / Barnoldswick / Buildings. It does look like there was another block, very interesting.

[Wendyf]

A section of the 1853 OS Map:

[PanBiker]

It looks like your row and the block set slightly back are the original build on the Croft. Before all the other terraces behind for the mill workers. Difficult to tell on the 1853 map if the row is shorter as it does not show individual houses in the block. I think Stanley has a larger scale OS from this date which may well reveal what we are looking for. If yours does turn out to be an addition it would put the build sometime between 1853 and 1892.

[Wendyf]

I have found St James Square in the 1911 census and the numbers go up to 38. There seems to be only three odd numbers, 7,9 and 11 then even numbers from 8 to 38.
John and Elizabeth Smith & their family lived at no 30 in 1901 and 1911 (I can give you more info about them if you want Matt)
In 1891 they were living at number 18, but the numbering is different and runs from 1 to 22 odd & even, so it's possibly the same house.

[Wendyf]

It's interesting to look at the "side by side" viewer on the National Library of Scotland's Mapping website. I don't know if THIS LINK will take you to the right place but it's worth a try. You can see the changes between the 1890's OS Map and an up to date aerial view.

[PanBiker]

I like that link Wendy, it does work OK and I like the fact that the cursors in each window are synchronised. It shows that the end of the short row that was knocked down was situated in what is now Matt's back yard. Four dwellings in that block then if they went up to 38 on the even numbers.

[Wendyf]

It's an excellent website Ian, well worth exploring!

The 1940 aerial photos on Mario show the block still in place, but it has gone by the time the 1960's aerials were shot.



You can overlay a modern street map over the 1853 OS map on Mario, but I'm not sure how accurate the overlay is....it's possible there is another cottage attached to Matt's.



This is fun, thank you Matt!

[PanBiker]

So possibly cleared at the same time as the houses on Westgate. The numbering on the census returns would rule out an extra one if there were four in the other block, 1892 map seems to show four in the block and Matt's Gable does seem to line up with the top of Robert Street and has been the end of the row certainly since 1892. The back yards on Matt's block increase in size along the row, the deepest at Matt's end you can see on the dual maps and on Google Earth where the other block would have had it's footprint.

[Wendyf]

Life is much easier since I discovered my "snipping tool" which allows you to cut and save anything you want from your computer screen with no bother at all. If you haven't discovered it yet look in the menu for Programmes; Accessories; Snipping Tool, then save it to your tool bar.

[Stanley]

My 1892 25" is basically the same map as the one on the side by side site. I've never seen that before, brilliant site, I have bookmarked it!

[Wendyf]

The first edition 6" OS Maps are excellent quality too Stanley.
HERE

[Tizer]

Thanks for the side-by-side link Wendy, I find that very useful too. Mrs Tiz is at this very moment playing with it and passing on the link to her local history pals.

By the way, I've just added the details and link for another of those ScotlandsPeople freebies... LINK

[Stanley]

Thanks also for that link to the 1853 OS. Far better quality than my copy. Just been looking at details on their that I haven't seen before. It has explained something I could not understand. See forgotten Corners.

[swinny_015]

Sorry for the late reply but I have been working silly hours.. I find all this very interesting and shall look at the maps on my pic this weekend as my phone won't load them up. Hopefully somewhere there will be a picture of the old house and road that was supposedly changed.. thanks for the replies so far. Much appreciated.

[PanBiker]

Gus Brennan came up with this aerial photo from about 1960. It's a zoomed in section from a larger image but shows the short row of houses behind St James's and parallel to the top of Robert Street. Still there later than I thought, this aerial view is about 1960 as it shows Holy Trinity fully completed as are the Post Office buildings on the wider view. So demolished sometime in the early 60's.

[Stanley]

It's from the 1963 Aerofilm aerial view. Here's the same pic but slightly larger scale that I posted a while ago when we were discussing Holy Trinity tower. [Click to enlarge]

[PanBiker]

I don't know why I cant remember that row, I'll ask Donald Harrison who lives at Croft Cottage if he remembers it. I'm not sure how long he has lived there but nothing to lose. The end of the row was partly in what is now his garden.

[PanBiker]

I saw Donald today and asked him what he remembered about the extra row. Now this has added to the story somewhat, he says that there was a barn on the site. The original path onto the Croft ran up the gable end of what is now the garage to a gate, one remaining gatepost can still be seen in Donald's garden in it's original position, the other gatepost was on the side of the barn. The 1893 street map shows 4 separate dwellings in the block and I think Wendy's census investigations with numbering supports this. One thing is vexing me though. If you look carefully on that map you will see a short projection on the front of the row extending from the front of the middle two dwellings, (could this be a set of steps)? Donald's recollection is from about 50 years ago so, was part of the row converted to a barn later into the 20th C. Having said that if you look at the 1963 aerial the gable end of the row does seem to have a chimney stack which would support a housing use at one time.

As to an extra cottage on the end of Matt's row, Donald supports this as well but if you line up the gables on the dual mapping site with the modern aerial and one from 100 years back they are at the exact same coordinates on the St James's row. While we were chatting outside Croft Cottage I noticed that if you look at the back of Matt's row it's actually his end house that looks to be an add on. There are no tie ins in the stonework between his house and next door but a clearly definable vertical seam butting to the next property which lends itself to that property being a later addition to the row. The rest of the row seems to be a continuous build.

The plot thickens and the row was still there in 1963, I feel sure there must be a photo of the area somewhere.

[Stanley]

That has triggered off a memory... The Landlord of the engine Pub (Later the Railway) was a bloke called Robinson and like many pub landlords he had a sideline, he ran a saw pit there, almost certainly at the barn. That's why many of the older end called that sharp brew up to the Croft 'Sagin Hill'. Sagin was a dialect word for sawing. Again, almost certainly originally the site of a small farm and that could be the origin of the missing cottages. Could also be something to do with why the end of that house is curved.