Driving Licence Application

[Stanley]

[PanBiker]

I had not heard back from Debra, Mr Anderson's secretary so I rang her yesterday afternoon, (I tried last week but I got her out of office message which told me that she only works Mon, Tue and Thurs). She hadn't rung me back as she was waiting for a response from the DVLA. She checked all the correspondence early last week and there was nothing from the DVLA regarding my case. To try and speed things along she faxed the DVLA Medical Review Board quoting my case reference number and asked them what information they required. She informed them that Mr Anderson is more than willing to supply the answer's. That was a week last Tuesday and she has had no response, letter, email or return fax.

I had a meeting last night but when I got back I constructed email round three to the DVLA. I have the new information that they didn't know of before, that I have contacted my MP and their boss the Minister of Transport! I also expressed dismay to the fact that they have not even had the decency of a response to my consultants communication with them. I also reiterated the fact that they have banked my money but not supplied the goods which is tantamount to stealing.

I think I will ring my own doctor today and ask if he has had any enquiry from them. If I get a negative there as well it will be another direct call to the review panel.

[PanBiker]

Just checked my email, I received an auto response to last nights email and and this at 9.40

This is not in response to my email last night but one from nearly a fortnight ago!

Dear Mr Lambert,

Thank you for your enquiry received on 14/6/2019.
Your case reference number is XXXXXXXX.

I appreciate you contacting us for assistance.

A letter was recently sent to you which will give you a full update. This should arrive shortly, please let us know if you don't receive it within the next 2 weeks.

When this information has been returned to us by post it can take up to a week for it to show on your record, or 4 working days if it has been sent by fax or email attachment.

We will then continue to process your application.

Our enquiries can take some time to complete, there is no need for you to contact us as you will be notified of the outcome. If we need to make further enquiries we will also write to you to let you know.

I trust this is of assistance.

Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our reply form link or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:

URL supplied...

Best Regards
S Kirwan

This is from a different person than all the other responses I have received, is this a light? When I receive it guess how I will be be returning it?

[Stanley]

It's a run around Ian. Just think, if the time spent dealing with your complaint had been applied to actually giving a decision you would be out of the wood. It's an incompetent, rules-driven system.

[PanBiker]

First point I would make is why do they think it would take 2 weeks for a letter to arrive from Swansea to Barlick? I could walk it in that time?. Going off what I read on the support forum, I reckon this will be some kind of questionnaire that will need signing off by my doctor to attest that I am fit to drive.

When returning the form it's a week to process it if you post it and four days if you email or fax it! What's the difference, delivery method may be different but the processing time should be the same. It will go via email, there is a document attach function in the online mail system.

I think once they have processed it and flipped my record (whenever), I should be able to drive under section 88. This seems similar to other drivers experiences.

One would assume that, "was recently sent" would mean Monday or Tuesday if writing that on a Wednesday. Anyway, postman has been and nowt's turned up. Knowing my luck, Ill get the letter and Hassan will swan off on holiday.

[Stanley]

They are vague because they don't actually send the letter, just instruct the computer to do it. They have no idea when it is processed. The joys of computerisation.....

[PanBiker]

I doubt that Stanley any correspondence I have received from the DVLA has referred directly to my case and notified symptoms. Around 5,000 people work at the DVLA and the medical review section has about 1,200 of them according to the Annual Report for 2017/18.

Here is another snippet from the report:

Drivers Medical.

Britain’s roads are among the safest in the world and licensing rules must ensure we have the right balance between safety and people’s personal mobility. We dealt with around 750,000 medical licensing applications in the last year. We recruited extra doctors, taking the number employed from 22 to 36. Ten nurses were also recruited for the first time to help with complex medical casework. We also recruited and trained 44 extra front line casework staff.

My letter has not turned up yet but I did get mail, a copy of the DVLA confirmation of destruction certificate for my old Renault. Supplied by Emmots of Colne.

[PanBiker]

I got mail this morning and was right in that they posted it last Monday. Postage paid 2nd class and nothing for me to fill in or return.

Dear Mr Lambert,

Progress Update On Our Medical Enquiries

We have written to Dr Manzur, Barnoldswick Medical Centre, 1 Park Road, Barnoldswick BB18 5BG and expect to receive a reply within six weeks. I hope you can appreciate that we need to write to your doctor/consultant to ensure they do not have any concerns that your medical condition affects your ability to safely control your vehicle at all times.

Our enquiries can take some time to complete but we will write to you as soon as possible to let you know further progress. You only need to contact us if you have new information for us to consider, such as a change in the above medical professionals details.

If you wish to see our standards of service.......

Yours sincerely,

Drivers Medical Group

They refer me to read inf94-customer service guide for drivers with a medical condition.

This is the very same guide that I contacted them about weeks ago which covers section 88 of the RTA and they said no!

I will book a telephone call with Hassan on Monday and ask him to email or fax his response to the DVLA. If he returns it by post it will add another week to the process, they have already said that in their last email.

Unless I get some dispensation under section 88 it looks like Sally will have to do all the driving on our holidays with the grandchildren in August. She's not looking forward to that. August will be 12 months since I voluntarily gave up driving.

The system obviously does not take any notice of the six page medical questionnaire that I filled in specifically about my condition and sent back along with my application. That was two months ago, or the fact that I saw my doctor two weeks before that which is now ten weeks ago when he pronounced me fit to drive. This is not a service.

[PanBiker]

Here is another statement from their Annual Report:

"We have made significant changes to our IT systems and processes to improve customer service and increase efficiency. Our award winning Fitness to Drive digital service allows drivers to notify the DVLA of a medical condition or renew a driving licence previously issued following a medical notification. The service currently covers over 200 notifiable medical conditions.We implemented legislative changes to the rules around diabetes and cardiac conditions and driving. The changes have been incorporated in our paper and online channel. We have reduced customer waiting time to 32 days (from 36 days in 2016-17). We have concluded and made a licensing decision within 90 days in 92.8% of cases against our target of 90%.We changed the licensing process for renewing vocational driving licences for drivers with insulin treated diabetes, making it easier and quicker for customers."

Doesn't help me. They have a customer satisfaction survey, when it's all sorted I will fill it in and along with constructive feedback if given the opportunity, I will be doing my best to alter the claimed 92.8%.

[Stanley]

[Tizer]

Tell the GP to use email, Ian. My experience with surgery communcations is that fax is useless!

[PanBiker]

Indeed Tiz, that's the intention, any way that can be employed to speed up a system that seems to be purposely designed to delay will be encouraged. It should take up less of his time doing it that way also. In an efficient system there should be a way for the medics to log onto the DVLA website and use the case number of the patient to pull up the requisite form. They use that for accessing your driving licence status. Driver number, your NHI number and your postcode. All they would have to do is substitute the driver number with the case reference number and provide an online questionnaire for the doc to complete. All done securely and less chance of losing it in the post. If I get the opportunity on feedback I will suggest this as a further enhancement.

Despite what they claim in their statement above about the enhanced IT processes it only does half a job. The lowest common denominator of 2nd class mail seems to be the preferred communication channel. When you apply for a driving licence using the D1 pack, the label and return packing that they provide invokes a tracked next day service, it cost me over £6.00 for the postage on my application.

[Tripps]

experience with surgery communcations is that fax is useless!

Seems like the present Health Secretary agrees with you. No more Fax machines

[PanBiker]

Health Secretary should have a word with the Transport Secretary then to see how many the DVLA are still using. Clearly promoted as a beneficial form of communication in their last email to myself, (transcript in one of my previous posts).

[Stanley]

Benefit of FAX used to be that you had a hard copy. Problem was they were heat printed and faded.....

[PanBiker]

Booked my call with my doctor, his two slots of the day were filled when I got through to the surgery at 08.40. So it will be tomorrow possibly after 6pm, although the receptionist asked me to keep my mobile on as Hassan will often clear telephone appointment at any time that he is free. He knows what it is about so will only be a short call.

[Stanley]

[PanBiker]

Just had my call with my doctor Hassan. He has just received the DVLA enquiry about me today and was reading through the options for return when he rang me. He agrees that the DVLA seem to employ every method they can to delay the process for no reason at all and that it would be a lot easier (and more efficient) if there was an online option.

He asked if I had any problems since I last saw him and if I was still using my splint. I told him that I hadn't used that for months and that I had walked to the trig on Weets and back the other week without any orthotic aids. I told him that I still used my elastic "foot up" on occasion but would not require it for the car. I also said that my longest walk to date was up to 6.5 miles around the fields and lanes. I forgot to mention that I had been accepted back to blood donors but I think he gets the picture that I am still progressing. He will complete the enquiry and return it by the best method offered today.

I may well get my licence yet, (or section 88) before we go on holiday with the grandchildren next month, unless they also want two pennorth from my consultant, they haven't mentioned that though so we live in hope.

[Stanley]

It's like a Norse Saga......

[PanBiker]

Noggin the Nog versus Nogbad the Bad maybe, speaking of comic capers, I got a reply from Andrew Stephenson today.

Over 75% of his reply is reiterating what I told him and is my life so I already know that! He gets a point as he says he has contacted the DVLA on my behalf. I wonder if he will have to wait 4 to 6 weeks for a reply?

They should have Hassans reply so the clock is ticking, just like the crocodile in Peter Pan.

[Stanley]

[PanBiker]

From a bit of the DVLA that works, I received my V5C document for the Hyundai. With my destruction certificate for the Renault that completes all of the paperwork, refunds, insurance changes and anything else regarding the vehicle swap.

[Stanley]

The algorithms evidently understood that transaction.

[PanBiker]

I got mail this morning from the DVLA and definitely not algorithm driven. It's in reply to my email to them informing that I had written to their boss the Transport Minister and my MP. Apparently this action invokes the complaints department which is where the letter is from.

Basically it's all my fault for filling in the medical questionnaire that I was led to on the site rather than sending my licence back directly using the form that you cant find without searching on the website! Lots of dates of when I did this and they did that which I am fully aware of as I instigated them all.

They reiterate that they advise drivers (bit of a misnomer when they have taken your licence) that they can submit an application 8 weeks before their suspension period is up. I know that as well as that's what I did. They state that an application for reinstatement of my licence was added to my case on the 9th May, (I sent it on the 23rd April). They add that to consider my application they need further medical information so have written to my doctor Dr Manzur, another point I am aware of as I have discussed it with him. They do add that once they have received his reply they will review his notes as a priority.

They state that they cannot offer advice on specific cases via email due to the security of the internet.

Apparently they appreciate my frustration of not being able to drive under section 88 but reiterate the point that it is all my fault for not surrendering my licence in the first place. This is despite them saying in a previous paragraph that I returned it when asked. As you all know I can't see the difference.

Again they make the point that I should have filled in "Declaration of Surrender for Medical Reasons" form instead of the B1 medical questionnaire "Tell DVLA of a Medical Condition that may affect your driving"

They state that they cant remove the revocation on my licence until the medical enquiries are completed and that they can confirm that I meet the required standards to drive safely.

In the final paragraph they acknowledge again the frustration and personal difficulties I am experiencing but state again that their primary remit is road safety. They have to ensure that an individual can meet the required standards for safe driving before a licence can be issued.

So, that's all right then, all my own fault.

First letter that I have had which is actually signed.

Julie Jeffreys
Complaints Handler.

Why do I get the feeling that the next letter might be to invoke a re-test?

[Stanley]

They have you by the short and curlies Ian. It may be time to lie back and think of England......