DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 13 Feb 2018, 10:04

cloghopper wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 08:42
PanBiker wrote:
11 Feb 2018, 10:04
Hello again Cloggy, nice to hear from you again. "Yan, Tan, Tether, Mether, Pimp, Sether, Heather, Hother, Dother, Dick". My dad used it on occasion, no real association with farming but his dad my grandfather had. He was a true dalesman, (Dent). Farmer, horseman, carter, we even have him as a tinker on one census when he went walkabout in Warwickshire and London for a while. When I heard it as a little lad, I was always taken with 10 and above, shared it with my mates as schoolboy humour ( as you would) in the playground. :extrawink: :biggrin2:
Thanks for that reminder. Knowing what I know now, it strikes me that they are an anglicised version of Welsh numbers from 1 to 10, except number 4, which in Welsh is pedwar.
Borra da, cloggy
I guess it shows common origins in the Celtic language that used to be spoken in Wales and what is now Northern England.

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by PanBiker » 13 Feb 2018, 10:28

I also think there may be a Norse influence as well.
Ian

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 14 Feb 2018, 04:44

Let's face it, bad news for the racists but we are all mongrels! Remember the new DNA profile of Cheddar Man? We were all well-baked!
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 21 Feb 2018, 06:32

If a horse is 'nobbled' it runs badly. Where did that one come from? OED says 'Mid 19th century: probably a variant of dialect knobble, knubble ‘knock, strike with the knuckles’.'.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 21 Feb 2018, 11:49

Stanley wrote:
21 Feb 2018, 06:32
If a horse is 'nobbled' it runs badly.
Some do that without being 'nobbled' . Tell me about it. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 22 Feb 2018, 03:18

I've always been lucky at picking winners but as soon as I back them that puts the kibosh on them. When I was in Perth for Janet's wedding I flew out on the day the Melbourne Cup was run. I had given the family the winner two days before and it put my stock up no end with my new family!
I looked 'kibosh' up. Unknown origin, 19th century...... Funny that, it sounds Yiddish to me.....
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 11 Mar 2018, 08:09

Pedant's corner I'm afraid. I have just heard an announcer reading the news on R4 reporting that Ofwat is going to investigate why so many pipes burst in the thaw last week. Only a small point but it betrays lack of precision in the editing process, the pipes burst during the freeze when the ice formed and expanded, this became evident when the water thawed and could flow. All right, I should get out more but it would be nice if they got it right and informed their listeners correctly.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Julie in Norfolk » 11 Mar 2018, 08:13

I always imagined (a dangerous thing) that nobbling a horse was derived from hobbling horses.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 12 Mar 2018, 05:14

I don't know Julie but it's a nice word to use, doesn't it trip well off the tongue! Can you imagine Rowan Atkinson saying it......? Nobble......
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 12 Mar 2018, 10:19

I mentioned jubilee clips elsewhere. Why `jubilee'?

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 13 Mar 2018, 04:06

That's a good one! The only thing I can think of is that 'Jubilee' might be the trade name of the company who first developed them and put them on the market. (I had a furtle and THIS Wiki article is useful but not definitive as to the origin of the name.)
More pedant's Corner. Just heard on R4, describing inhabitants of Qatar the reporter said that "70% of the population are underweight or obese". Really?
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 13 Mar 2018, 11:42

I like the fact that the inventor's widow drove off the War Ministry men when they came to take over the company and ran it herself! The company is still run by the family: Jubilee Clips

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 14 Mar 2018, 03:46

She must have been what they call a 'Friday-nighter' in Rochdale........
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 25 Mar 2018, 18:17

LIfe moves on, and we must surely adapt our language accordingly - for instance the saying
'it's not really cricket' can now be safely abandoned. I heard former captain of England Michael Atherton being asked for his comments on the matter - he'd be an expert of course - :smile:

From the Times of India
-
In 1994, then England captain Michael Atherton was fined 2,000 pounds after TV pictures appeared to show him putting his hand into his pocket and then applying an illegal substance to the ball. Atherton denied doing so while saying that he was drying his hands on a hot and humid day, and was subsequently cleared from the charges. However, he later admitted that he had failed to inform the match referee that he had dried his hands on dirt which he was carrying in his pocket. Atherton was fined 1,000 pounds for 'using dirt' and other 1,000 pounds for 'giving incomplete information to the match referee'.
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 26 Mar 2018, 03:09

Bowlers have been massaging the ball for yonks. Denis Compton was known as the Brylcreem Boy and it was common knowledge he wiped his hands on his hair a lot while he was bowling.....
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 29 Mar 2018, 07:21

Pedant's Corner. There has just been a report on Today of a campaign to improve the condition of historic coastal guns that are being attacked by salt corrosion. In particular, the 3.7" Anti Aircraft gun was mentioned and it was described as 'quick firing' followed by an estimate of how many rounds a minute it could deliver. This betrays a misapprehension, the designation QF or Quick Firing in the name of a piece of ordnance is not directly about the rate of fire but is the term for describing the fact that it utilises 'fixed ammunition', that is that the round and the case containing the propellant charge are one unit, just as in a rifle bullet. This distinguishes such a gun from one which has a separate round and propellant charge which are loaded separately. This obviously affects the rate of fire and is where the term originated but in technical usage is a more specific description.
Sorry about that but let's get it right.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 29 Mar 2018, 11:43

I think the programme got a bit confused. Pendennis Castle has a WW2 3.7-inch anti-aircraft gun described as `capable of firing 10-20 shells a minute up to 30,000ft', and `a rare 12-pounder quick-firing gun' for defence against small warships. Both are included in English Heritage's list for needing more care.

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 30 Mar 2018, 03:27

I think you're right Tiz but only to be expected I suppose. They haven't had the benefit of working with them.
3.7" is 94mm and the Germans had almost the same flack gun at the beginning of WW2, the 88mm. They soon realised that with AP ammunition it was the ideal anti-tank gun. We were slow off the mark, It took us until 1943 to come to the same conclusion and produce the 17pdr anti tank gun which was 77mm. That did the trick. It was so successful the Americans used it in the Sherman tank and it was renamed the 'Firefly'. Just think if we had had the 94mm, German tanks would have been no problem!
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 12 Apr 2018, 04:19

Gun related again..... I think we have all used the word 'smasher' or said that something is 'smashing' and have always wondered why we use it like that. I found out yesterday that when the Carron Iron Foundry in Scotland first introduced their new cannon, the Carronade, which was an instant success because it was quicker to reload and at close range did more damage to wooden ships, it was nicknamed 'the smasher' and this very quickly moved into common usage as an adjective meaning that something was very effective or fit for the job.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 13 Apr 2018, 03:10

'Jingoism'.... Comes from a song that was popular before the Boer War in the 19th century. "We don't want to fight but by jingo if we do, we've got the ships, we've got the men and we've got the money too!"
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 14 May 2018, 16:46

The word 'Gammon' in a perjorative sense entered my world today.

" But the latest insult has caused the most backlash. “Gammon” has increasingly become shorthand for a conservative middle-aged man, who is raging and red in the face when voicing his opinions, which are generally unimaginative tropes swallowed straight from right-wing tabloids."

I think someone has been watching me. . . . :laugh5:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 15 May 2018, 03:29

David, It used to be 'Colonel Blimp'. See THIS BBC report on the modern usage. The original meaning was to distinguish the hind leg on a side of bacon which was a slightly different curing process than the classic ham. In old fashioned salted and air dried bacon there was actually very little difference but today's curing methods are entirely different.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 30 May 2018, 08:23

I came across a phrase that's new to me while reading in the paper about the WPP advertising company where Sorrel has resigned and the company won't explain why. The chairman is being criticised and looks likely to go too. The journalist described it as `squeaky bum time' at the company.

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 04 Jun 2018, 05:34

Something I have noted..... At the end of WW2 when half of Europe was on the move we described them accurately as 'displaced persons. Now we use 'migrants' and even 'scroungers', criminals and in some cases, rapists. All part of the much more hostile and inhumane attitude we see today. We are a wealthy and generally caring society and it grieves me to see this almost fascist attitude, this type of discrimination is where some of the most dreadful crimes of the 20th century originated. Someone should read some history and have a rethink!
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 12 Jun 2018, 08:35

The BBC reporter in Singapore this morning kept referring to the `optics' of the Kim/Trump visit. Anyone would think they'd gone there for an eye test! :smile:

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