FORGOTTEN CORNERS

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Tizer » 29 Dec 2018, 10:16

Twists of salt - I didn't know about these badges... LINK

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 30 Dec 2018, 04:08

Neither did I Tiz. Interesting but no mention of who made the twists.....

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Mrs Brown in the corner shop on Castle View in about 1975.

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My mother in the shop at Sough in 1956.

The thing I love about these pics almost as much as the people is the reminder of all the old familiar brands that we grew up with. Moorhouse and Hartley jams, Keiller marmalade, Weston's biscuits. I could get quite boring!
Duckworth's were the grocery wholesaler in Colne and their warehouse was a rabbit warren. I remember their delivery driver was called Luther (Greenwood?).
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 31 Dec 2018, 04:41

Image

Shortly after 1900 the BUDC bought a very similar roller to this one. It was kept in the Gas Works Yard as at that time BUDC owned that as well. The council were responsible for the roads in the town and had their own workforce. That was still the case in the 1950s and it's a reminder of the days when we were in charge of our own destiny, money made in the town stayed here and was re-invested. As we moved into the modern era this was seen as hopelessly inefficient but the funny thing is that Barlick prospered and expanded under that system.
They tell us things are much better now....... (potholes and blocked drains..... Go figure!)
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 01 Jan 2019, 04:32

Pursuing that theme, we rapidly become accustomed to the fact that LCC maintenance of roads and drains deteriorates each year as the systems and road surfaces are so badly maintained. We are told that this is a consequence of government funding cuts but of course we have no knowledge of how prevalent these faults are throughout to areas controlled by the LCC. I have a suspicion that the closer you get to County Hall the better the maintenance or am I just being paranoid?
What is certain is that in the days when BUDC was responsible, the target for any requests or criticism was on Jepp Hill at the Council Offices. This short chain of command meant that local councillors had an interest in making sure that the town was well run. This is a forgotten corner now.
Even today, the closer the seat of power of the responsible authority, the better the standard of service, think Parks and Leisure and street cleaning. At local level think enterprising use of Town Square and local initiatives on drainage. There may be a lesson there.......
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 02 Jan 2019, 05:00

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The Council offices on Jepp Hill in 1976. Citizen's Advice was in the same building.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 03 Jan 2019, 05:11

During the height of local control in Barlick there was a traditional belief that the town was run by 'The Forty Thieves', a shadowy group of capital holders who controlled everything. I suspect that this is a very old local conspiracy theory but at one point I asked Harold Duxbury (who was always named as a member of the group) if there was any truth in the theory. He was very open about it and told me that in a way it was correct. A group of local movers and shakers kept in close contact with each other and did use their economic advantage to 'guide' what happened. He held that this was a good thing as there was nothing underhand about the way the group operated.
So there you are, a Forgotten Corner indeed. Needless to say I haven't got a picture of the group!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Cathy » 03 Jan 2019, 05:22

It brings to mind the pictures of you and your mates sat on the long bench, or stood with bags on your heads. :laugh5:
Another forgotten corner of Barlick. Post them again Stanley.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 04 Jan 2019, 05:02

Ah, the Wild Bunch!

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That was a good period in my life. We used to meet every day and discuss all the topics under the sun. Billy Parsons (the man with the pipe) was particularly good value and I learned a lot from him about local farming practices. I remember when I was doing my research on Holly as browse wood he was very interested because he had never come across it before. They aren't a forgotten corner with me, I have Billy's funeral card which has a very good pic of him on the front and I use it as a book marker so I am constantly reminded of him.
Thinking about Letcliffe, here's a forgotten corner up there....

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After WW1 the temporary war memorial made of wood was sited on Letcliffe. Later the permanent one was there but further over to the left in its own enclosure.

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Almost the same view in 1982 when the 'men's shelter' was still there but badly vandalised.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 05 Jan 2019, 04:58

I noticed something on the pic of the Cenotaph that had escaped me previously. The flags of the putting green that used to be on this slope. I don't know why but I had always assumed it was on the other side of the wall at the top of the slope on more level ground.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 05 Jan 2019, 09:28

Not in my memory of the park back into the 50's. The small green was always there and the slope a bit more forgiving than it looks when you were playing. The bigger green at the top originally only had straight greens, then in the early 70's I think they added a few small sand bunkers to jolly it up a bit. I can still smell the green hut just through the gate where you got your putters and balls.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 06 Jan 2019, 03:33

Before I knew the park Ian....

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When John was interpreting the LIDAR data for the area he found this evidence of an ancient watercourse which could have been the supply for the fort (marked in yellow). In the field at Hey Farm where the branch heading down that slope turns west towards Gillians Beck there was a spring in the field that at one time was the water supply for the farm. We could pick watercress there all year round. There was another big drain came down out of the park a bit further South up the hill just above the entrance. In the field below it was a big stone drain. In very wet weather the drain can't take the water under the road and it comes out of the bank onto the road. Always plenty of water coming down there.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 06 Jan 2019, 10:33

There were two putting greens up at the park. Small one above the memorial which was just mown clean and you only needed a straight putter. The bigger course started just through the gate and covered all the top field including what is now the swings, dog walking plot and the car park areas, It stopped short of the football field at the far end. The grass on that one was left a bit longer for "the rough" and the short fairways were mown short as per usual, still 9 holes but rambled a lot further than the other small green. The greenkeepers hut was just the other side of the wall and you got the golfing putters, drivers and balls from there. I think it was about 9d or 1/- for a round at the top 6d for kids when I was a little lad and went with my mum and dad, a nice way to spend a summer Sunday evening. It was still in operation when Sally and I were courting, early 70's and the council had introduced some small sand bunkers around the top green. Nursery greenhouses went first then the putting greens and all the park staff, eventually turned into the low maintenance park we have now, it was immaculately kept when it was run by BUDC. My mum used to swap flower cuttings with the gardening lads up there as did many more folk, they looked after Victory Park and all the planters around town as well of course. The shelter in your photograph used to have a drinking fountain in the end wall nearest the memorial.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 07 Jan 2019, 04:40

Thanks for that Ian, I was at Hey Farm then (1959 - 1979) but was to busy working all the hours God sent to go up to the park. I have a memory of the greenhouses backing on to the wall to the West of the men's shelter so I must have been up there before they were demolished.
Letcliffe was bought by BUDC in 1900 at the height of the town's expansion. At that time there had been a great debate on the Physical Efficiency of the working classes after it was realised that so many of the recruits for the Crimean War were in such bad health and municipalities all over England designed and built recreational spaces for the population in order to promote what was seen as Rational Leisure. The miracle is that it has survived for so long!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 07 Jan 2019, 09:09

You are right on the greenhouse location, accessible by road there so they could get a van or flat up. I think it was more of a vocation for the lads working there rather than just a job.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 08 Jan 2019, 04:42

The other forgotten fact about parks is that the site of Victory Park was the council tip for many years. You can still see the evidence where Butts Beck has eroded the bank if you keep your eyes open.
Ghyll Rock limestone quarry was also a tip and was obliterated when the new road By-passing Greenberfield was put in. And let us not forget Rainhall Rock.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 08 Jan 2019, 09:18

Wellhouse mill dam, not the council but used probably by just about every local contractor at one time for industrial waste disposal. I noticed when we had a garage on the site that a lot of the infill was empty paint tins and stripped wallpaper and the like, probably from Boltons in the same locality. Post Office sorting office sits on top of a toxic pile from the late 60s and early 70's. I wonder where the Nissen hut opposite Wellhouse shed went to, and all the garages for that matter?
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 09 Jan 2019, 05:05

You are right Ian. regulation was very lax particularly on the infill of disused mill lodges. I came across that at Dee Mill, the old lodge had been 'filled in' and septic water was leaking into the basement of the engine house. It was terrible stuff and I think the 'cure' was probably another infill job but as you say, the deposits still lurk there.
A thought, what was used to fill in the old Corn Mill dam? The way things are going I think that it could be a potential development site......
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 09 Jan 2019, 10:59

I shall offer bottled milk as a forgotten corner. We have just taken delivery of our first two pint's this morning after a request to our local and widely regarded local milkman Ian Greenwood. All done online via his facebook page and promptly delivered early doors this morning, never heard a thing.

There's the hidden corner, when everyone received bottled milk it was a recognised early morning sound, the clink and rattle of the milk floats and deliverers to the door. Along with paper rounds it was also a potential earner for young lads and lassies that could get up in the morning.

For us probably the first time in 25 - 30 years that we have had a milkman. Small contribution but two pints every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to start with will save a couple of plastic bottles every week in the recycling bin. :good: :smile:
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Tripps » 09 Jan 2019, 14:20

Having noticed that recently that next door have bottles delivered and having read this post - I've looked into this. ( I know that money is not the only factor involved. :smile: )

From a google search - I find that I am eligible for delivery but only on Monday Wednesday and Friday, and my milkman is named. He will charge 81 p per pint which is £4.86 a week. for 6 pints. I find that Tesco will sell me a 6 pint plastic (fully recyclable) bottle for £1.50, which will keep in my fridge for 6 days.

Take your pick.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 09 Jan 2019, 14:43

Tripps wrote:
09 Jan 2019, 14:20
I find that I am eligible for delivery but only on Monday Wednesday and Friday, and my milkman is named. He will charge 81 p per pint which is £4.86 a week. for 6 pints. I find that Tesco will sell me a 6 pint plastic (fully recyclable) bottle for £1.50, which will keep in my fridge for 6 days.
Your last sentence is the reason that dairy farmers are going out of business, 25p a pint is not only cheap but an insult to the farmers who produce the milk and have to sell it at a loss. I suppose the upside if you look at it one way is that there will be more green field sites available for building houses on, a win win if you are a carpetbagging Philistine, if you get my drift. :sad:
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 10 Jan 2019, 03:53

I agree about the milk chap. Lots of advantages with the old milk men and women. They were often the first indicator all was not well if the previous day's milk hadn't been taken in.....
Just one thing in defence of the supermarkets, some pay the full market price but sell at a discount as a loss-leader.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 11 Jan 2019, 05:04

Image

The 1892 map of Coates Bridge. Note the area marked W.M. to the west of the bridge. This was the canal wharf and was the point of entry for much of the coal burned in Barlick even after the arrival of the railway in 1871. Note the OS bench mark at the bridge of 494ft. One thing that I have always found surprising is that despite the road being uphill from Salterforth to the town and uphill again from the town to Coates Bridge the level of the canal is of course exactly the same as it is at Salterforth Wharf. Gradients can be very deceptive in built up areas.
The advantage for the coal merchants was that it was downhill from the Wharf into the town for most of the way and from Salterforth it was a severe uphill via Salterforth Drag. This ensured that Coates got the coal traffic.
All this despite the levels being the same at both.
Salterforth did get coal traffic but it was all to Earby which was a far less demanding route. This declined after 1848 when Earby got the railway when the Midland Railways opened the extension through from Leeds into Lancashire. The station was in the middle of the town and was more efficient. In Barlick it was always a toss up which was best, the wharf at Coates or the goods yard in town. If you look in the Calf Hall Shed Comany's minute books you'll see that the deciding factor was the price of the coal delivered to the wharf which was usually cheaper than rail. The place where the good yard did score was that it was a more central location for the domestic coal merchants to have their offices and domestic coal could be bagged and weighed straight out of the trucks which were of course above ground level. One disadvantage of canal coal was the fact that it was below ground level on arriving and took more effort and expense to off load but if the price was lower this was not a penalty.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 12 Jan 2019, 05:02

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Here's the adjoining sheet to the map above. (A general once said that it was strange how all his battles took place on the boundaries of maps! I know how he felt....) Old Coates mill is shown but was demolished shortly after this survey was done, it had been empty since about 1885 and New Coates Mill was built in 1865.

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Old Coates mill looking towards the North in about 1890. Note on the map that when it closed it had it's own gas plant, the black dot to the east of the mill is the gas holder. William Atkinson noted in Old Barlick that one of the last uses for the retort house was the distilling of illegal whisky...... A local farmer used the mill for storing hay as well.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 13 Jan 2019, 05:35

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Staying with Coates, here's the 1909 OS map. Coates Old Mill has gone but note that there was an accommodation bridge over the canal, Banks Bridge. Look back at the earlier map and you will see that there was another, Eastwood Bridge, both are gone now.
Another point of interest is over to the the West at Banks Hill. We had an isolation hospital in those days. One of the things I discovered in my researches was that in the 1930s there was a move to convert Bank House near Coates Mill into a cottage hospital but it never happened.

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The Isolation Hospital at Banks Hill in 1905.

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David Whipp's pic of Bank House before it was demolished. It was built at the height of the Bracewell hegemony in Barlick by Christopher Bracewell, Billycock's son, but he died as a bankrupt in about 1890.

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I have this pic of the Slater family dining at Bank House. I suspect they bought it from Christopher Bracewell's estate and this would be about 1910. They could possibly have been the last tenants of what was certainly the most imposing residence in the town.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 14 Jan 2019, 04:53

Image

Here's a forgotten corner for you. The Kitchen at Little Stainton Farm in 1970. It was pig killing time and what you can see hung up is the dry salt cured results from some 350lbs pigs fed largely on barley meal and milk. (They sold some of the bacon and hams) Look at the size of those hams! Notice that there is a pig's head on the rack as well, pig cheek was a delicacy!I can assure you that this tasted nothing like the pickled pork sold as 'bacon' by the supermarkets. Far more fat, no white froth when it was fried and melted in your mouth. The fat wasn't greasy like it would be today, it was firm and dry and fried crisp, I always thought of it as 'white meat'. Home fed and cured bacon was a staple part of our diet.
Having this hung up reminds us of the reason why the cottager's pig was so important. Fed on the food scraps and peelings from the house with whatever else was available a pig like this could see a large family through the winter.

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Cottage pigs in the Black Country.

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I always used to introduce my American students to the cottage pig. Here they are with a Tamworth at Blist Hill Museum, part of the Ironbridge Gorge Trust, in 1987.
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