FORGOTTEN CORNERS

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 19 Jan 2017, 05:31

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One long forgotten sight on our roads is a steam roller like this one which is what the old Local Board and the later BUDC owned and operated. The main use was rolling chippings into hot tar on roads that were black top but another essential use was the maintenance of the old water-bound macadam roads. The spikes on the back could be lowered and the top surface of the road ripped open and loosened. The road could then be levelled to its original profile by hand and then re-rolled to give a new smooth surface with the correct profile for drainage.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 20 Jan 2017, 05:39

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Hill Street

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(Newtown setts)

We walk past interesting things every day without noticing them. Hill Street is a case in point. It's unusual because it is a rare example of a street paved with concrete. That's interesting enough but when they paved it why was the slope down to Bank Street paved with Tubber Hill setts? I think it's because when it was done, horse drawn transport was still common and the setts are to give horses a better grip on the bank. When I did the LTP Billy Brooks remembered the first paving done in the town in the Newtown area. The setts used were small granite paviors laid in a fan pattern (I was once told that the paviors who did the job were French). Billy said that there were immediate complaints form the carters who said that the grip for their horses was far inferior to that on the old water bound macadam roads. That could be why Tubber Hill setts were so popular, being gritstone they give horses a better grip. By the way, an early use of tungsten alloys was to make 'caulks' for draught horse shoes which could be installed in icy weather to give a better grip on the road surface.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 20 Jan 2017, 10:44

Top one used to be my garage where I kept my Honda 500 Four, it had a pit in the floor which was boarded over. It was bugger a getting the bike in and out when the setts were covered in snow and ice. :grin:
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 21 Jan 2017, 05:05

They do get slippy in winter with no treatment.
Look in the LTP for Jack Platt's transcripts. He worked in the quarries and there are some good stories.....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 22 Jan 2017, 06:01

We forget these days how important quarrying was in West Craven. We all remember the quarries at Rainhall, Greenberfield, Gill and Tubber Hill and Salterforth but don't forget Thornton in Craven!

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 23 Jan 2017, 05:45

One little known fact about the waste heaps below the quarries on Salterforth Drag is that they were used in the 1930s for the construction of Kelbrook New Road and the new road at Snaygill, Skipton. Thousands of tons were moved. See Jack Platt's evidence in the LTP.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 24 Jan 2017, 05:59

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This map of the top of Salterforth Drag reminds us how important Park Close Quarry was with its tramway down to the canal for exporting setts to Lancashire. There is a forgotten corner here. Look to the right of the quarry and you'll see a building marked in the field numbered 230. This is the brick works which used offal from Park Close Quarry to make bricks. Harold Duxbury once told me that they were only fit for lining stone walls as they were very poor quality
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 25 Jan 2017, 04:51

Well worth reading Jack Platt's interviews in the LTP. Sagar's quarry below Lower Close farm on the other side of the drag was noted for producing very high quality sawn stone products. Jack was in charge of the saws there at one time and he said that it took twice as long to saw stone there than in the higher beds at Upper Hill. If you want to see the very best of this stone, look at John Sagar's house near Loose Games on Tubber Hill. You can bet all the stone in that building was specially selected and it shows.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 26 Jan 2017, 05:36

The stone saws at Sagar's Lower Close quarry were driven by a gas engine using producer gas made in a retort on site. These were a very common sight in those days where there was no mains gas or electricity. If you look in Newton's transcripts you'll find his account of being labourer to one of the Browns when setting up a new plant for John Sagar. When the installation was finished they had gas but couldn't get the engine to run. In the end Newton got fed up of winding the gas engine over so he opened the joint in the supply pipe to check the connection. He found that someone had installed a packing in the joint without punching a hole in the centre for the gas to pass. He punched the hole, they tried again and the engine started. Funny thing was that the man in charge of the job got very angry and took it out on Newton who never forgot or forgave!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 27 Jan 2017, 05:18

One thing that comes to mind when thinking about the quarries is how hard it was on the horses. Well worth reading Jack Platt in the LTP to get a flavour of the affection there was for the horses which used to be kept at night in the fields behind the Lane Head pub and the waterworks. He talks about taking them up to graze and rest in the evenings. However he also describes the death of one of his favourites on the hill down to Barlick near the lane to Lane Bottoms. Contrary to what we might expect, going down a steep hill with a heavy load was in many ways worse than going up. There were no brakes on the stone carts and at the top of a steep hill shoes hung on chains in front of the wheel were unhooked and dropped under the tyre to stop the wheels rotating. They weren't very effective and the load could get away with the horse. On this occasion it drove the horse into the ditch, the shaft broke and impaled the horse which of course suffered terribly until it was killed. The advent of motor vehicles after the Great War was a blessing for these poor animals.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 28 Jan 2017, 05:29

Jack is also very good on the early ex-army wagons they bought after the Great War. If you want a first hand account of solid tyres and acetylene lamps and non-existent brakes, read his transcripts in the LTP. He even described the process of renewing the solid tyres at the Summit Works of Oswald Tillotson at Burnley. They were agents for AEC wagons (The name comes from an offshoot of the old London and General Omnibus Company. The initials stand for Associated Engineering Company which was later hived off as an independent firm and was very successful. One little known fact is that AEC made the chassis and the cab and bodywork were done by other firms. At Marton we had two AEC Mercury wagons as tankers. Danny Pateman had one and I had the other. My cab was made by Park Royal and Danny's was an Ossie Tillotson cab. We both agreed that mine was far higher quality, coach built like a Rolls Royce. The interiors of the cab doors on mine were covered with aluminium chequer plate and I used to keep them polished!

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A lovely wagon to drive. I thought the world of it and did more miles in it than you could poke a stick at!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Whyperion » 29 Jan 2017, 00:32

One of Londons motor bus operators The London Motor Omnibus Company (Vanguard) commenced in 1905 (The first company to use route numbers in London) had premises off Blackhorse Lane,Walthamsow, and commenced building vehicles in 1906, expanding to 570 workers by the end of 1907. The London General Omnibus Company acquired that company (along with the Road Car Company (Star)) in July 1908 and shortly after used those premises to build their own vehicles (Previously the main motor buses were imports mostly De Dion) - the first being the X Type. When the Underground Railways Group took over London General in 1912 shortly after the bus manufacturing was transfered out to a new company - A.E.C. By 1925 a new site was being built at Hanwell/Southall and the first completed vehicles left there in 1927 and in 1928 AEC became an independent company. For Buses and some bus derived commercial vehicles LGOC built its own bodies at Chiswick (works opened in 1921), but many bodies were bulit from the 1930s onwards by the relatively nearby Park Royal Bodies (Abbey Road, Park Roya) company

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 29 Jan 2017, 04:25

Some of the old bus companies that served Barlick in the 1930s.... Star from Skipton, Pennine who were based at Gargrave and of course our very own Ezra Laycock. In the very early days local haulage firms had passenger carrying bodies they could bolt on to the chassis so they could be used for private hire.

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As early as 1914 in this case, some dedicated charabancs were being built and operated. I think this was in Nelson.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 30 Jan 2017, 05:51

One thing that constantly surprises me is how cluttered our streets are today compared with the past and it isn't just the cars. We seem to be obsessed with street furniture! Worth reminding ourselves of this every now and again.

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This was 1983.....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 30 Jan 2017, 07:49

You have to bear in mind that without the bollards with the number of cars we have now a lot would be parked on the pavements. I agree that it was better but, needs must....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by David Whipp » 30 Jan 2017, 09:22

We took the bollards out on the side of Ellis Street next to the Town Square a couple of years ago to allow a temporary deck to be built for the music event at the end of May. I was shocked at how quickly several stone flags were trashed by vehicles running over them and parking on the pavement before new removable bollards were installed.

Previously, the bollards preventing vehicles going onto the Town Square itself were removed to make the use of the space more flexible. Inevitably this has led to vehicles going onto the flagged area - mostly without too much harm. However, I'm told that several flags were smashed around Old Gormless when a double decker bus used the square to turn round in...

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Tizer » 30 Jan 2017, 10:05

Here's a photo of my Blackburn grandfather on a charabanc outing from the Seven Trees Working Men's Club, probably sometime in the 1920s. He's in the centre of the second row from the back. He was one of the club officials and helped organise outings.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Big Kev » 30 Jan 2017, 11:31

David Whipp wrote:We took the bollards out on the side of Ellis Street next to the Town Square a couple of years ago to allow a temporary deck to be built for the music event at the end of May. I was shocked at how quickly several stone flags were trashed by vehicles running over them and parking on the pavement before new removable bollards were installed.

Previously, the bollards preventing vehicles going onto the Town Square itself were removed to make the use of the space more flexible. Inevitably this has led to vehicles going onto the flagged area - mostly without too much harm. However, I'm told that several flags were smashed around Old Gormless when a double decker bus used the square to turn round in...
It wasn't my bus...
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by David Whipp » 30 Jan 2017, 15:46

Hmm, you sure about that Kev?! (I guess it wasn't Tizer's bus either...).

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 30 Jan 2017, 16:14

Would you Adam and Eve it, Kev and his lovely trouble and strife have developed the art of levitation with their plates of meat, not quite right in the loaf of bread either. Best nip in the cafe for a nice cup of Rosy Lee or maybe the Barlick Tap for a Vera Lynn. :grin:

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Big Kev » 30 Jan 2017, 18:44

PanBiker wrote:Would you Adam and Eve it, Kev and his lovely trouble and strife have developed the art of levitation with their plates of meat, not quite right in the loaf of bread either. Best nip in the cafe for a nice cup of Rosy Lee or maybe the Barlick Tap for a Vera Lynn. :grin:

Sorry, as Bradders used to say, I'll get me coat....
Hahaha!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Whyperion » 30 Jan 2017, 18:58

Stanley wrote:Some of the old bus companies that served Barlick in the 1930s.... Star from Skipton, Pennine who were based at Gargrave and of course our very own Ezra Laycock. In the very early days local haulage firms had passenger carrying bodies they could bolt on to the chassis so they could be used for private hire.

Image

As early as 1914 in this case, some dedicated charabancs were being built and operated. I think this was in Nelson.
If I read that radiator top correctly the chassis is a Maudsley. They became part of the same group as AEC a little later.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 31 Jan 2017, 04:38

Wasn't that mobile health salon a double decker bus? It was parked there one night.......
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by David Whipp » 31 Jan 2017, 13:30

Think you've put your finger on the culprit Stanley...

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 01 Feb 2017, 04:06

I thought it might be....

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This image near the Red Lion in Earby has always tickled me. I love the little girl with the dog. I spent quite a lot of time asking questions in the area at one time and whilst I never nailed her down, I got very close to identifying her.... Have a look at Jim Pollard's transcripts in the LTP. He was born in the oatcake bakery on the right and gave lots of good information about the area. So many of these old pics have a retailer's cart delivering.... All of Jim's dad's oatcakes were sold by hawking them round the town, the bakery was too far out of the centre to be a popular shop.
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