FORGOTTEN CORNERS

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 16 Jun 2019, 02:29

They are different Kev, superb quality. Good tip and I shall do that. I haven't really taken notice of that shop.

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I walked into Shambles on the square yesterday and commented to the lady behind the counter that what I heard as I went in was a dirty laugh.... I had forgotten that she was Phyliss Watson's daughter. The pic is Phyliss at going home time when she was a weaver at Bancroft. That started me off about her and her daughter told her friend that I had written 'a lovely piece' in the paper when she died.... Nice! Every now and then you get confirmation that to some folk at least, the articles in the BET have meaning.
Phyliss was a one off and fit to travel. She knew I had a soft spot for her and we never had a wrong word.... I was pulling her leg one day and asked if she was an expensive night out. She said it depended on the bloke and in my case a gill of bitter and a bag of chips would do it..... :biggrin2: :biggrin2:
I wonder if there are still workplaces where you can be as happy as we were at Bancroft. The weavers all agreed that despite the hard work and primitive conditions Bancroft was a holiday camp.
I still cherish the memory of Phyliss and Mary Cawdrey telling me in great detail exactly what Marlon Brando did with half a pound of butter in 'Last Tango in Paris'!

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Mary doing a spot of tackling for herself, she's putting fur in the nose of the shuttle to apply a bit of resistance to the weft to stop it snarling up and breaking. Normally the province of the tackler but who could argue with a woman like this? Happy days and wonderful women!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 17 Jun 2019, 03:28

My Californian visitors had good things to say about the Fountains and the town in general. I told them about the genesis of Church Street and how that block of buildings came to be built after the sale of the Village Green and they said that what they had noticed in particular was that every building is built using good stone. So I told them about the quarries and the fact that geologically we are blessed with both good millstone grit and limestone because of the Craven Fault.
What interests me is that fresh eyes immediately identified one of the forgotten reasons why Barlick is such a unique place. It is because in the days when it was developed it made sense to use local resources and what we had in abundance is good building stone and lime, just what you need to erect solid long-lasting buildings.
We are so used to this that we overlook it. Once your eye is tuned in to the stone the modern buildings like the two banks in Church Street, Post Office Corner and the fire station stand out like sore thumbs.
One thing that has got lost over the years is a brass plaque that used to be incorporated in the pavement at the front of the Post Office. If you look you'll see that the building line is slightly different and 50 years ago the plaque announced to the world that 'The Postmaster General has not and does not intend to dedicate this pavement as a Public Right of Way'. I may have got that wording slightly wrong but that was the gist of it. This was a legal move to ensure that in any subsequent rebuild or alteration the Post Office would have preserved private ownership of the land outside the curtilage of the building but inside the boundary line on their deeds and could extend out to that line if necessary. Another thing that was lost when the PO moved was the bronze panel that I think contained the original letter boxes and was there a clock?

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You can see the original Shap Granite paving stones that marked the frontage on this image from 2010, I would have to look to see if they are still there.

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This pic is 2018 and the blue panel on the right of the frontage is where the large bronze panel used to be.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 17 Jun 2019, 08:01

Yes and there was a Public Telephone Box in the recessed doorway. At first it was a 4d button A / B job, replaced by a beep beep, keep feeding me later generation job in the 70's. There was indeed a clock mounted above the letter boxes, two slots I think, one for local mail and the other for National and International mail. The sorting office was upstairs of course and the P.O. vans operated from behind locked gates at the rear of the building.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by plaques » 17 Jun 2019, 21:03

I have never seen the Brass plaque on the post Office. If anyone has it could they please post it.

A similar sort of 'Legal' boundary can be found in Burnley hidden away just behind the Stackhouses on Bank Parade. Impossible to find unless you know where it is.

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. The inscription reads..The Owners of this Land has a right to half this wall. 1847.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 18 Jun 2019, 02:30

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I went for a furtle, I almost got it! Not sure what year this was but the building is still the Post Office. Worth noting.... Road markings are different, CCTV camera post isn't there, the Council used all the shops, 3 telephone boxes, the old clock still on the fascia and the old stone bus shelter still in use. Ill make a guess at 1982 but I'm not sure.... Things change constantly don't they.
I have an idea they had painted the bronze panel at this time and ceased to use the post slots in it, the pillar box is in place.And yes Ian, I remember the two separate sots for local and national mail.....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 18 Jun 2019, 08:28

I'm fairly certain there was a clock just above the original post slots or am I thinking of the one inside? It was very spacious inside for the counters wasn't it, counter services to the left and parcels to the right from memory. You could post your letters inside as well, into the back of the post box, there were slots next to our in the access door. Lots of customer counter space for completing forms and sticking the stamps on.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by plaques » 18 Jun 2019, 09:21

In the picture the lady is wearing what I would describe as a Christian Dior full middy skirt still going in the late 1990s. Perhaps some of the ladies may comment?

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Big Kev » 18 Jun 2019, 09:31

I remember that area looking like that when I moved here in 2004.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Marilyn » 18 Jun 2019, 10:06

I am going to go back through some old holiday snaps on the computer tomorrow...I shall forward any interesting ones to Stanley ( though I doubt I have a direct view like that). I know we went to the Pendle shop (far right) asking if they might sell a VHS video of Barnoldswick ( think it was before CD's and I wanted one as a gift for my sister, Cathy)
Their response was "Who on earth would want a VHS video of Barnoldswick?!!!"
We did.
Cathy would have loved it.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Marilyn » 18 Jun 2019, 10:15

I am stretching my brain cells for this time of night, but I think our first holiday was in 2003.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 19 Jun 2019, 03:16

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I went for a furtle in the bushes. I think this answers a lot of questions. c. 1960
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by chinatyke » 19 Jun 2019, 08:22

That's how I remember it when I worked in Barlick in 1962/3. The lovely cake shop on the corner where we bought hot pies every morning!

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 19 Jun 2019, 08:34

He He, I was right about the clock but we forgot the stamp vending machines. :surprised: You can just see the telephone kiosk in the doorway as well on that shot:smile:
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 20 Jun 2019, 03:50

I'd forgotten them as well Ian. I went and had a good furtle in case I had missed the Right of Way plaque but I was right, it's gone.....

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Syke sale map 1896 when it was also a farm. Lane end Pub or The Syke is a forgotten corner now.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 21 Jun 2019, 03:56

I suppose it's human nature to forget and it is part of the historian's job to remind anyone who will take the time to take notice of these forgotten corners. Apologies if I repeat myself occasionally!
You may have noted that I had a set-off yesterday and went to Ilkley. What I noticed (apart from how green and lush things look) was the amount of grass that was felled and drying under the sun in readiness for the brief spell of fine weather we are expecting. It is great for the farmers and many will sleep easier after the next week because they will have a good stock of winter food in for the stock. Farming isn't as important as it used to be in years gone by but we shouldn't forget it is still an important part of the local economy and will become more so in future. That being so, the sight of all that grass cooking nicely was a good thing to see!

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Of course everything has changed with the death of old fashioned haytiming and the advent of modern silage making equipment. These people in 1900 would have been amazed to see the size and complexity of today's machinery. Some of the forage harvesters are enormous. We met a harvester and three tractors and trailers yesterday on the road heading out for a contract job somewhere near Skipton and they were impressive.

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A far cry from Abel Taylor and his horse Dick hard at work mowing at Green Bank Farm in 1956. They were different times.....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 21 Jun 2019, 08:06

Some fields around Barlick are on their second cut.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 22 Jun 2019, 04:03

Yes and I quizzed my farmer friends as we went to Ilkley and Vicki told me some would get a third this year.....

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Ernie Dawson at Thornton Hall with some of his fine milking herd in 1976. All a forgotten corner now, even the farm has been broken up. 50 years ago we were a predominantly dairy area, we had two large processing dairies. One at Dobson's Dairies at Coates Mill in Barlick and one a bottling and later cheese plant at West Marton. These were both thriving enterprises but due to amalgamations in the national dairy industry and 'rationalisations' aimed at profit the price of milk fell to uneconomic levels and a combination of foot and mouth disease and the necessity for modernisation on the farms reduced the number of milking animals and production fell. This led in turn to the closure of the dairies and the milk industry in this area, while still active, is no where near what it was in the glory days and this has affected our landscape and the ancillary industries that were associated with the industry, for instance cattle dealing and the markets.

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In 1972 the largest and most modern wagon in the district was a cattle wagon running regularly up to the Scottish Markets, now it is the Neston Tank tankers servicing the disposal of toxic waste from Rolls Royce......
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Wendyf » 22 Jun 2019, 06:30

I see the milk tanker every morning coming from Dowshaw in Lothersdale up to Broom House and then it goes down Bleara Road to Rake Bank. I don't know when it goes down to Dodgson's Farm up on the tops....probably before Lothersdale. It used to be Arla but it's a different one now.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 22 Jun 2019, 08:15

The one we see in Barlick is the haulier Barge who used to be in Ingleton in my day. They have been in the tanking game for a long time....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 23 Jun 2019, 03:26

I did an article a while ago about the death of the lime-spreader in the area. Must look it up....

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Can you remember these wagons being regular visitors to the district? Sam Longson from Buxton was an agricultural contractor who saw an opening after the war when the Ministry of Agriculture were subsidising lime and basic slag application to grassland to improve it. Up to him stepping in the way at was delivered to farms was by tipper wagon and spreading by hand after reloading onto the farmers vehicles. He bought scores of these four wheeled drive chassis from the War department and spread directly on the fields from the wagon. It was a brilliant move, only cost the farmer slightly more and cornered the market. At first they brought Buxton Lime but I have an idea that later they used to work out of the Dales.
It lasted for about ten years and then died out. I think the subsidies changed and the old ex-WD wagons were getting worn out to the enterprise died a natural death.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 24 Jun 2019, 03:50

Long forgotten in Barlick is the trade of wheelwrighting and cart and barrow making. Horse drawn transport had a lot to do with this of course but barrows and wood turning were independent of this. The mill at Ouzledale was a saw mill and centre of production, Crook at Hey Farm was a wheelwright and there were others as well. Harry Horsfield once told me that as a lad he worked for his uncle at Green Farm at Salterforth and he made carts as a side line when he wasn't farming. Incidentally he participated in local trade in another way, he made Harry work part time at the mill and he hated it!
I think the root of the trade was in medieval times when Barlick was a noted centre for big trees, sawing large timbers and we have evidence of wood turning and cart building in the 14th century. There were also two boatyards on the canal at Salterforth, more very heavy wood working.
One tradition of wheelbarrow and cart making was that they were always painted the same colour with a pink lead-based paint to preserve them. It was known as 'Cart Paint' for many years because it was so distinctive.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 25 Jun 2019, 05:39

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Dark Hill Well above Springs Farm. Disused now but a very important source of water in the 19th century. If you go into the Calf Hall Shed Company records you'll find lots about Dark Hill Well being used as a supplementary source of water to top up Springs Dam, First by Bracewell and improved later by the CHSC. The stories around it include arguments about water rights and even a court case over the fact that a horse fell into the excavation to divert the water down the hill to the dam.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 26 Jun 2019, 03:21

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Springs Dam. It isn't clear what the original purpose of Springs Dam was, possibly a way of ensuring a good water supply for the farm and a fish stock but as soon as the new mill at Butts was built by Bracewell it became important as a means of regulating the flow in the beck and ensuring there was a reserve for the new mill. Butts was always short of cooling water for the condensers in the early years and taking a lease on Springs and subsequent improvements like deepening it and diverting additional water from Dark Hill Well were only two of the strategies adopted by Bracewell. When the CHSC bought Butts they kept the lease as it was still seen as important and there is a lot in the Minute Books about maintenance of the dam and letting the fishing out. Also problems that arose downstream when works were being done. I assume that when the Calf Hall company went out of existence the lease ended and it is now private water.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 27 Jun 2019, 05:09

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King Hill from Letcliffe Park in 2001 (with Big Jack in the foreground). King Hill with its lone tree has always attracted me. Every view from Letcliffe is good but this one out towards Colne has always pleased me.

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David Whipp's image in June 2104 of the way some people unthinkingly mess up a lovely park. It's so sad when you see something like this and it's a product of the fact that as far as CCTV surveillance is concerned Letcliffe is a dead area. Even the culprits would surely agree that they wouldn't like to find their picnic spot in this state. Or am I mistaken? Are they unaffected by it?
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by BarlickBillie » 27 Jun 2019, 19:01

PanBiker wrote:
16 Dec 2018, 09:58
Sorry to be pedantic but surely that's the other side of Ridge Street so it's the back of King Street, numbers 15 and 17. My Grandparents and Aunt and Uncles house a long time ago.

Slightly later edit, from the Manchester Road end it is indeed signed Philip Street. Interesting, the King Street houses there are through properties not back to back and the ones at that end are much older than the others nearer Newtown. I have always assumed that it was named accordingly. Mind you this is Barlick. :extrawink:
Do you mind me asking how long ago your grandparents lived there and if you remember anything about any renovations they may have done?

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