FORGOTTEN CORNERS

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 19 Aug 2019, 03:16

You could be right Ian but my mother told me it was called wireless because they used to have dancing parties where every one wore headphones and the wires were suspended from the ceiling. So at least some of the listeners called it wireless for that reason and she was there at the time.
Listening to the news of the world stock markets reminds me of the surprise I got when I first realised that at least one stockbroker dealing in foreign shares and bonds was operating in Barlick at the latter end of the 19th century. He is mentioned in the Trade Directories and I should have had a suspicion because I knew that some manufacturers invested in the stock market but always assumed it was via their banks.
This was separate business from shares in the actual mills themselves which as far as I can see were always done directly between the applicant and the directors of the various mills. If you look in the Calf Hall Shed Company minute books (on the site) you will find that share deals were regularly ratified at the Directors meetings.
In the days before banks in Barlick many workers invested in the mills they worked in as it gave them a stake and direct involvement. The manufacturers always encouraged this (and loans as well) but eventually these small share holdings proved to be troublesome. Many holdings were diluted by partiple inheritance and Victor Heges, a company accountant, told me that the cost of the postage spent on sending out the annual dividends was often more than the actual payment. Harold Duxbury told me that when the CHSC finally liquidated many of the addresses of the shareholders had been lost by records not being updated and Malcolm Steratt the solicitor in Church Street had the job of finding them. I don't know what eventually happened, perhaps there is a legal time limit.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 19 Aug 2019, 08:43

Stanley wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 03:16
You could be right Ian but my mother told me it was called wireless because they used to have dancing parties where every one wore headphones and the wires were suspended from the ceiling. So at least some of the listeners called it wireless for that reason and she was there at the time.
No accounting for misinformed folk Stanley, by the time folk were dancing around to music with suspended headphones from a single receiver, wireless receiving equipment had been around for 30 years or more.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 21 Aug 2019, 04:04

Image

Image
Co-op lorry in gala, about 1920. Lettering on wagon reads: Bakery and cafe department. Picnics, weddings and funeral parties catered for. The prize card reads Trade turnout, motor lorry. Second prize. The two girls on the flat are Gladys Windle and her cousin Eileen Watkinson. The driver is thought to be Mr Nuttall. The sign on the lorry reads 'Noutrix condensed milk. None better'. Picture lent by Dorothy Carthy, sister to Gladys.

Both these pics are local businesses exhibiting in the annual galas. The top one is a West Marton Dairy wagon at Skipton Gala. The last time I saw an old fashioned gala parade was in the late 50s in Earby. Barlick persisted with an annual gala for a while longer run by the Rotary Club I think but eventually died, I think because of lack of support.

Image

This was the gala forming up in Bank Street in about 1920. I wonder if the annual galas will ever be revived. They seem to be a forgotten corner these days.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Big Kev » 21 Aug 2019, 06:00

There was a local Facebook campaign to revive the Barlick gala but, I believe, apathy persisted...
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 21 Aug 2019, 06:33

:good:
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 22 Aug 2019, 03:24

Image

Another forgotten corner, Whit walk in Barlick in the 1960s. This was the time for new clothes, probably the precursor of the American Eater Parade. Fast fashion these days means that for some, new clothes are a weekly occurrence. Times change....

Image

I think we decided this May Queen parade wasn't in Barlick but it's another gathering that seems to have died out.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by plaques » 22 Aug 2019, 07:10

Weren't people well dress in those days even a trip to a football match justified a collar and tie. Shorts, T shirts and trainers are the order of the day and dressing casual is OK but I draw the line at funerals and weddings.
Things may be one the mend. I've heard a report of new Wetherspoons pub opening up in Blyth, Northumberland where they are imposing a stricter dress code. I shall report back.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 22 Aug 2019, 07:16

Good luck with that one!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 23 Aug 2019, 04:20

Carrying a thought over from another topic. One almost forgotten corner in agriculture is the balanced system of mixed farming with rotation of crops and the use of animal manure to enhance fertility and soil quality.
I once asked a farmer, Mr Bramley, why he bought prize Irish Bullocks, brought them to Yorkshire, fed them on home grown barley, turnips and straw and folded them in straw yards over winter. When he sold them he invariably had a loss. He told me that I had missed the point, they were farm machinery and an essential component of his system. As such some depreciation was accepted. The cash crop of the farm was Barley and his bullocks ensured the fertility of the soil when the straw yards were emptied in Spring and the contents made into well rotted manure. Side benefits were that he enjoyed good cattle and beef and each year the overall fertility of his land increased.
That was the only time in my life when I was offered a choice of beef in my sandwich, Angus or Hereford. I had both and they were equally good but different. It's men like that we should listen to because they are practical and speak from experience. Of course the rabid tendency of the Vegan movement would say he was wrong and a destroyer of the environment. Who would you listen to?
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Marilyn » 23 Aug 2019, 10:10

I can remember people taking their aprons off to answer the door (remembering that "friends" came to the back door and "strangers" came to the front door). Women "put their lippy on" to go to the shops/doctor etc.
I must say, I hate the trend of people (young people) shopping for groceries in their pyjamas! ( what is THAT all about?!)

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Tizer » 23 Aug 2019, 15:25

My Lancashire granny always went out through the back door except on Sundays when she used the front. Also during the week she made her way to her destination using the back alleys in preference to the streets. She probably knew most of the back alleys in Blackburn. My dad had a weak bladder and knew which Blackburn pubs had toilets at the back that could be accessed without going in through the front door.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 24 Aug 2019, 04:29

Due to the design of the house and the garden front I always use to back door.
Good observation about the pinny Maz. Yes, that was normal behaviour. Mentioned a lot in the LTP. The only exception was when popping to the corner shop, Most women gathered up the corners of their pinny and used it as a carrier bag.
Last time I saw that done was at Bancroft when Colin Macro used to come for the toilet rolls, he always wore a brat and used that to carry the toilet rolls back into the warehouse.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 25 Aug 2019, 03:44

Image

Harrison Brothers Queen Mary loading bottles at West Marton Dairies for Bradford in 1956.

Two things of interest here. This was a normal Bedford 7 ton wagon with a big petrol engine in it. The Bradford load had grown over the years and so the Brothers lengthened this wagon by inserting a Bako Flitch in the chassis. This was legal then and extended the flat by about six feet which meant that you could get a shade over ten ton on the flat which was just legal. The petrol engine was so quiet all you could hear when it was working hard was the cooling fan.
At about this time the Brothers came up with a cunning wheeze, they would take the petrol engine out and replace it with a Ford 6D diesel engine which would do wonders for fuel consumption. The cunning bit about this was that the MMB paid a better rate for the petrol engine than the diesel and if they didn't let the MMB know they would be quids in until they found out. They got away with it for over two years until we lost the contract when the Bradford Dairy was swapped for one at Blackburn under a rationalisation plan.
The new dairy was Townshends and was nothing but trouble At one time our manager Bill Mills was over there and had to barricade himself in his office and send for the police as the staff were outside baying for his blood. I forget what the outcome was because shortly afterwards West Marton was converted to making cheese instead of bottling and it became someone else's problem.
This qualifies as a forgotten corner because at the time this pic was done in 1956 everything connected with the job was stable and secure. 7 days a week and 365 days a year we did the same things. Complete job security and as reliable as sunrise and sunset. All this was to change and this was the first time in my life I had encountered job insecurity. Today, as far as I can see, that's the norm. Nobody is sure what their situation will be in the future. Some even have that problem day to day under modern Zero Hours contracts. If anyone had told us then that this would eventually be the case we would have laughed at them.
How things have changed. In this respect I am glad I am old and retired. I still don't understand how we could let this deterioration in working practices happen. That's an indication of my basic naiveté.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 26 Aug 2019, 03:37

Image

Image

Image

When you look at this selection of machinery (never mind steam engines!) I think the first thing that strikes anyone is that they are all old, or even ancient. Exactly right and I have driven all of them not in rallies and shows but in normal everyday work. That makes me feel really old because they are all classics now, not Vintage but classic.
The Ford Standard paraffin tractor was imported from the US in the 1940s. You started them on petrol and when the manifold had warmed up enough to vaporise the TVO (Tractor Vaporising Oil) you switched over to the paraffin tank and away you went. The one I drove didn't have a seat, you stood on the footplate. No hydraulics, just a towing bar. Three forward speeds and one reverse. As far as I can remember, no brakes but I might be wrong there.
The Bedford 'O' Type is 1946 vintage, petrol, four speed crash box and reverse and the one I first drove had a wooden packing case with two folded sacks on top for a seat. The gear lever had a nasty habit of coming off in your hand as the bayonet clips which held it in place were so worn. No heater but it was modern in that it had a Clayton Dewandre vacuum servo on the hydraulic brakes that only worked effectively shortly after you took your foot off the accelerator as the source of the vacuum wasn't a pump but the intake manifold. No double dipping lights, if you dipped your headlights the off side one went out and the nearside one had an electro-magnet that physically tilted the reflector down and the fixed spotlight below came on automatically.
The Albion wagon is even earlier, 1930s vintage. Wooden cab and the one we had at Marton as a tanker was older than this as it had the original Albion Oil engine and not the Gardner. Four forward speeds and one reverse and the selectors were so worn it took a while to find how to get from second gear to third, bit of a challenge! The brakes were direct vacuum cylinders, no hydraulics, and were useless. When the 1968 Transport Act came into force and all wagons had to be brake tested it failed, the handbrake was more efficient than the footbrake and so it had to be retired.
I suppose all this makes me a forgotten corner as well. I don't mind. Actually it makes me quite proud because of the fact that like these old classics I have survived!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Tizer » 26 Aug 2019, 15:58

This seemed like the most appropriate topic in which to post this. I've just seen it on Ebay for sale by someone who sells collectibles including the mineral specimens I'm interested in. I've bought from the seller before and without any problem. Of course other booksellers are available and it would be worth checking secondhand sellers on e.g. Abebooks etc.

THE COAL MINES OF EAST LANCASHIRE LINK
by Jack Nadin, published by Northern Mine Research Society, 1997. £9.95 and free postage.
A thoroughly researched history of coal mining in the area around the Lancashire towns of Burnley, Padiham, Nelson, Colne and Brierfield. The book is well illustrated with b/w photos, maps and diagrams.
Essential reading for anyone interested in the industrial history of east Lancashire.
160 pages in softcovers in very good condition.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Tripps » 26 Aug 2019, 17:06

I've come across this author before - he is prolific on the subject. I was interested in his Oldham book. His books don't seem to reach the giveaway prices we have come to love on abebooks so that seems about reasonable.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 27 Aug 2019, 03:31

No, but I have got some of his books....
The local coal mining industry is a forgotten corner today, the Burnley coalfield was important and at one time there were mines in Colne as well.

Image

In 1984 I went searching for remnants and found this ruin of a beam engine house at Fox Hole Clough.This was only one of a number of pits exploiting the fringes of the Burnley Measures.

Image

I spent about four hours down this drift mine at Cliviger which exploited the Arley Seam. Four feet of excellent coal sandwiched between rock strata top and bottom so you were bent double all the time. Boy! Did I pay for it after. I had to come downstairs backwards for three days, for some reason that didn't cause me pain, forwards was impossible. Local legend was that the Royal Palaces burned Arley Seam exclusively because it was the best house coal in England.....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 28 Aug 2019, 06:06

Barlick has no local coal resources that I can discover despite the tantalising name for Gisburn Old Road from Weets House down to Gisburn having the name Coal Pit Lane to this day. I suspect that in medieval times isolated coal outcrops left after the glaciation of the Ice Age destroying the shallow seams that were the fringe of the Burnley Field were exploited by a string of Bell Pits but there would be no weight of coal.
That leaves the puzzle of what the fuel source in Barlick was for essentials like cooking and minimal heating in winter. We know that Barlick was once heavily wooded and that by about 1800 this resource had been exhausted. From clues in the Manorial records it looks as though the deficit was made up by peat cutting on the common land on Whitemoor. We see restrictions on the size of the wagons that could be used and banning of traffic in the wet season to avoid destruction of the rough roads. This would impact the poor, the few wealthy people in the town could import coal from Burnley by packhorse but it would be expensive.
From 1800 onwards the arrival of the canal solved the problem because Lancashire and Yorkshire coal could be brought in at an economic price and household coal became common. This cheap fuel also stimulated the rise of the use of steam power in the town from the early 1820s onwards, that's when we get the first mention of steam engines in Barlick and Earby. The advent of the railway further eased the problem from the mid 19th century onwards.
Today this is a forgotten corner as coal has been superseded by gas, electricity and oil imported by road. At the same time of course we have hit another problem, climate change and global warming caused by the demand for energy. One of these days this too might be a forgotten corner but that seems like a pipe dream at the moment.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 29 Aug 2019, 03:47

One thing I have always admired is the efficiency of communications 100 years ago when you consider the state of the technology then. In those days it was the common practice of the Manchester Men, the manufacturer's representatives who stood on the floor of the Manchester Royal Exchange each weekday to take orders for cloth and source the yarn needed to weave it. They left Barlick on the train between 07:30 and 08:00 every morning and knew that would be on the trading floor at 9AM. The first postal deliveries to the mills got there in time to open the mail and send a lad down to the station with any newly received cloth orders and instructions to buy yarn. This was the first job of the day and so the orders were placed with the spinners as soon as they arrived in Manchester. There are occasions recorded when the yarn was delivered by rail to Barlick before the Manchester Man arrived back in the evening. It would be hard to match that sort of service today with all our modern systems. The nearest equivalent for small consignments is guaranteed same day delivery if orders are placed early in the day on the web. A letter sent to the exchange by the late last post was guaranteed to be on the 'change before 09:00 the following day. It was a brilliant system and when combined with standard contracts and trust in word of mouth instructions it contributed greatly to the efficiency of the industry and their ability to respond to demand and operate on very low profit margins.
However, a lesson for us even today. This efficiency and its effects were entirely beneficial in times of strong trade and plenty of demand but when things changed after 1920 and orders started to dry up it facilitated cut-throat competition on price and many firms accepted orders at a loss simply to keep mills fully employed as high loom usage kept the share of overheads on each loom to a minimum. This efficiency in the end ensured the shrinking of profits and the eventual demise of many old firms. This was what killed the trade.
What was even worse was weaving for stock in the belief that certain long standing trades would always rebound from recession. When they didn't it reached a point where all the available capital was locked up in a warehouse full of unsaleable cloth leading to failure. When this cloth was sold at a loss to free up the capital or liquidate the assets it affected other mills making the same cloth types. A classic Domino Effect.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 30 Aug 2019, 04:10

Image

Our recent discussions about Central Garage reminded me of the old mortuary next door to it. Here is is in 2013 when it had just been refurbished. (Central Garage is the building behind it)
I don't know the date it was built but suspect in was late 19th century. The site used to be the old Pound where stray animals were panned up in the days when all the land up to Church Street was the old Village Green. This was sold in 1815 and developed, it was the start of Church Street as the main thoroughfare through the town via Back Lane, now Philip Street. I have seen that it was also the site of the town stocks where miscreants were punished but have never seen any firm evidence. It was where post mortem examinations were carried out and any bodies found in the toawn were kept until disposal, hence the ventilators on the roof!
When the main police station on Manchester Road was built it incorporated a new mortuary and as far as I can see the old one in Butts was simply abandoned and allowed to deteriorate. I haven't a definite date for this.
Since it was refurbished it has been used by the town's street cleaners as their operating base replacing their previous home on the old ambulance station in Bank Street.

Image

The Bank Street ambulance garage in 2003. Now demolished and replaced by a block of housing association flats.

Since then I'm sorry to say it has got a bit untidy as the yard seems to be used as storage space for anything that nobody can find another home for! Everything from redundant fridges to occasionally used items like temporary fencing.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 31 Aug 2019, 03:15

Image

Still in Butts. The caption on this image is 'burnt mill'. Butts mill had frequent fires over the years for some reason. I suspect this is one of them in 1920. At that time it was still weaving.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 01 Sep 2019, 03:32

I was moaning about the fact that cooking, or Domestic Economy as it was called isn't taught any more in schools.

Image

This building at the site of the old town gasworks was the offices and showroom and also the place where cookery classes were held by schools in the days when it was on the curriculum. Incidentally I learned not long ago that it was also where the air raid siren was mounted during WW2.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 01 Sep 2019, 08:32

My uncle Bob's joinery shop and building yard from about 1960 onwards. Siren was still on the apex then and linked to the one on the fire station hose tower.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Cathy » 01 Sep 2019, 08:52

Here in Oz it was called Home Economics. We were taught cooking, sewing, babycare, and it touched on budgeting too.
I know I'm in my own little world, but it's OK... they know me here. :)

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 02 Sep 2019, 04:08

That's it Cath. It was such a big mistake. I think it was driven largely by the thought it was sexist as it was only taught to girls, the boys had woodworking or other manual skills. I was always impressed by the Young Farmers. They had competitions for cakes and even lining cake tins and both sexes competed.
I remember girls going off to school with their baskets on Home Economy day.
Baskets, now there's a forgotten corner. I saw a woman the other day with one and had a conversation with her. It was an old one she had found in a junk shop, perfect condition and she loves it.
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