Schools

Post Reply
User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Schools

Post by Sue » 01 Mar 2019, 16:54

John Widdup was born on the Butts in 1870 and lived there until about 1890. Where would he have gone to school and is the school still there
If you keep searching you will find it

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 58360
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 02 Mar 2019, 03:54

I've had a furtle Sue.... You have a choice depending on what age he started school, I can give you the chronology.
Up to 1876 what became the Pigeon Club in Butts was the National School.

Image

Here it is in 1982.

In 1874 Billycock Bracewell built what became known as the Brick school in Fountain Street.

Image

It opened in 1875 as a school and all the pupils from the school in Butts were transferred there in 1876. Later, when the Wesleyan School was built in Rainhall Road the girls were transferred there and the Brick School became boys only. In 1885 when Bracewell died the Fountain Street school closed and became the Liberal Club, having later roles as a joiner's shop and Builder's merchants, The Rover Company may have used it as a social club but around 1950 George Ashby bought it as a club for the Ouzledale workers. It closed in 2001 and was sold for £85,000 and has now reverted to being a private infant school. There is more information in both Atkinson and Warner, both on the site in rare texts.
Bear in mind the Rev. Milner's ploy of building what became St James' on church Street as a school so he could obtain funding more easily..... Atkinson is the source for that. This would be about the same time. If Widdup's family were chapel I'd go for National and Brick schools, if CofE look to St James'.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 02 Mar 2019, 07:36

Thanks so much Stanley, I believe they were Chapel, many cousins and other descendants certainly were. I am at last getting my head round my Widdup notes and hope to write another book like my Maylard one.


I was planning on doing a section on Education. I know he completed his education in the 1890 s at Burnley Mechanics. Would he have left school at 14. In the 1881 census at age 11 he was working in the mills but I think you explained to me once that it would have been a half day only. Have you any idea what his political influences would have been in the 1880s
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
If you keep searching you will find it

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 58360
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 02 Mar 2019, 08:50

Sue, it's a mistake to assume that the passing of Forster's Education Act in 1870 introduced standards that were automatically applied country wide, on of the provisions was to give local school boards autonomy. So there is no definitive answer. Half timing was common and stemmed from exceptions granted to agricultural areas in the Act but had been common before the Act. The evidence I have from people like Billy Brooks is that children as young as nine were allowed to go half time if they had an acceptable educational standard but that was a moveable feast, the school board was aware that the children's earnings were essential to the family wage.
My mother Mary Challenger was born in 1905 in Dukinfield and she told me she was half timing when she reached school leaving age which would be between 1915 and 1918. At that time the district had textile mills but I think she was at Jones' Sewing machines...
The bottom line as regards half timing is that whatever the regulations it was still common until at least 1918.
As regards political influences..... I could go on for many pages but to keep it simple and give you some clues...
Until 1900 there were two main parties, Tories and Liberals. Be aware that up until that time the Liberals were regarded as a radical party and many working class people tended towards them. The Labour Party was founded in 1900, having grown out of the trade union movement and socialist parties of the nineteenth century and from that time was the favoured party of many workers, many influenced by support of the Co-operative Movement. From that time the Liberals lost ground as they were seen as more right wing, in fact many Liberals embraced Toryism as they became more prosperous.
As a very general rule it is safe to assume that chapel goers were more likely to be Liberal and then Labour. The Church of England was widely regarded as being 'the Tory party at prayer'. However there were exceptions, many workers thought it safe to support the same party as their employers and this was very likely to be High Tory.
Clues in individual cases could be trade union membership or even choice of daily paper. Membership of the Clarion Cycling Club (there was one in Barlick) almost certainly points to left leaning.
That's as far as I can go without unduly influencing you! I hope it is helpful.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 02 Mar 2019, 10:33

I would imagine he was from a Liberal political background. He was openly a Marxist in his thinking and writing ( his words ratherthan mine) . He split from the SDF at about the time of the formation of the ILP. He wrote and published a rival newspaper to the Justice. ( ?) in the 1890s in Burnley which was not approved of. In the Literature of the British Socialist Party the political leaflets he wrote are recommended reading, and yet by this time I believe family life had taken over and he was no longer politically active. I just wonder what could have motivated him. Perhaps it was when he was at the Burnley Mechanics circa 1892
If you keep searching you will find it

User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 02 Mar 2019, 10:40

What age did children normally start school then?
If you keep searching you will find it

User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 02 Mar 2019, 10:55

Just found my original article .it was 1889 when he was awarded his certificatesat Burnley Mechanics, where he got a got second class in shorthand and English Literature in May and in the July got first class in Commercial English.
If you keep searching you will find it

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 58360
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 03 Mar 2019, 04:10

Motivation for being a socialist was almost always a burning sense of injustice and frustration because labour had no representation. The Liberals used to partially fill that role but at the turn of the century were moving to the right. One of the reasons for their decline was the number who tergiversated to the Tories.
Starting school was as early as possible, usually at 4 years old. The main driver for this was the need, in a low wage economy, for mothers to be free to work during the day and school was the best child-minder. This still applied when I went to school at 4 years old in 1940 but then I think the driver was to free mothers for war work.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 03 Mar 2019, 07:36

Reading around about tge Burnley Mechanics Institute in old newspapers online I think he may have studied Political Economy there or been involved in some sort of debating society. I am still following a thread there via a cousin who is also a very good genealogy and history researcher who used to work there. Thanks for your help and pointers Stanley. I also found that he probably left school at 14 or 15 according to one article I read
If you keep searching you will find it

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 58360
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 03 Mar 2019, 08:46

He must have been a very good scholar and might possibly have been teaching others as a student teacher before he left. This was quite common, there's a technical term for it but it escapes me at the moment...
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 03 Mar 2019, 09:55

Interesting, I wonder if my cousin can find that out
If you keep searching you will find it

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 58360
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 04 Mar 2019, 04:11

:good:
Today they are paid and called 'classroom assistants' but in those days bright pupils took on the role and of course were unpaid! In some cases it became a route into full-time paid teaching.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

Mixman2019
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: 21 Aug 2019, 17:49

Re: Schools

Post by Mixman2019 » 04 Sep 2019, 08:37

A Rousing Jubilee Celebration

OLD SCHOLARS HONOUR FIRST "HEAD"


Striking evidence of the affection that dwells in the hearts of past teachers and scholars was afforded on. Saturday on the occasion of the Barnoldswick Church of England School's jubilee celebrations. To the very day, it was the 50th anniversary of the school's beginning, January 6th, 1884. The festivities were on a much larger scale than those originally designed, but, thanks to the adaptability of the organisers, the whole affair ran smoothly.
The first stage consisted of a tea party in the main hall of the school and this lasted from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. Four sittings were required to accommodate the 400 guests, and in order that the intervals might not seem wearisome, the officials turned the remainder of the school into a series of smoke rooms and conversation lounges. Many people had travelled long distances to take part in the celebrations and the true re-union spirit prevailed. An appetising meal was served by Misses S. and J. Hacking and their staff.
Subsequently, there was a social gathering in the Queen's Hall, which was filled almost to capacity. Speeches full of interesting reminiscences, presentations for long and valued service, and a variety of musical Items combined to make the evening a most enjoyable one.
An ideal chairman was Mr. R. S. Windle, a former scholar, who enlivened the pro-ceedings by his ready wit and topical humour. "It was a very happy thought of the managers of our dear old school to bring us together on this occasion, "said Mr. Windle. "This afternoon we had an opportunity of meeting many old friends, and I am sure there is no gathering in the world that could have brought so many of us together as the jubilee of the school. I want to extend to you all a most hearty welcome."

THE FIRST SCHOLARS.


Fifty years was a large slice out of anyone's life, and he was sure those who had recol-lection of the opening of the Church School must feel thankful to God for sparing them to be present on that occasion. In the early days when names were being enrolled for the new school, the headmaster, Mr. Alfred Pollard, would have seen, had he looked up from his desk, two boys "scrapping" to decide which was to be first on the register. One of those boys was David Mitchell and the other was Robert Windle. (Laughter.) "I was not much of a 'scrapper,' added the speaker, "but I think I was a bit better than the other boy; at any rate my name went down first. (Laughter.) Perhaps the reason was that Mr. Pollard knew my name because I had been one of his scholars at Salterforth School before coming to the Church School at Barnoldswick."
He felt it would be remiss of him if he failed on behalf of the old scholars to pay a tribute to their dear, respected old school¬master. (Applause.) The schoolmaster only sowed the seed; as the twig was bent the tree was inclined. A great deal depended on oneself if the tree was to be properly watered and grow to maturity. Nevertheless 'the part played by the schoolmaster in the training of a child was a big one, and he was glad to acknowledge the help and inspiration he had received from his old headmaster. He thought no tribute more fitting could be paid to Mr. Pollard than that contained in the words Pope spoke of his friend, Addison :-
He was a soul sincere,
In action faithful and in honour clear.
Who sought no title; served no private end;
But did his duty, and he never lost a friend.



The speaker's advice to parents was :— "Never be afraid of spending money on your children's education You are giving them something which, in after years, money can't buy," he declared. "Apart from a knowledge of various subjects, schools teach us the difference between right and wrong, and probably that fact has kept a great many of us out of gaol." (Laughter.) If they carried out the simple rules they learnt at the Church School they would never go far wrong. In the words of Longfellow, success was nothing more and nothing less than doing the daily task that lay before them well, and doing well whatever they had to do. Nothing was gained without hard work, and if any¬one wanted to achieve anything, they must not depend on the schoolmaster, but "put their backs into it."

ONLY THREE HEADMASTERS.


Concluding, the Chairman said they were proud to have with them the first headmaster of the Church School, which, he might add, had had only three headmasters in 50 years. They were also proud to welcome the three oldest members of the staff, and among others, Mr. A. Atkinson, a former scholar, who had been one of the school managers for a large number of years. The school had educated more than 4,200 scholars.

The next speaker was Mr. Thomas Smith, a prominent stock and share broker and company secretary in Sheffield, who was the first pupil teacher at the school. Introducing Mr. Smith, the Chairman said he owed seven-eighths of any success he had achieved to him. Mr. Smith was the man who taught him how to work. In those days there were no scheduled hours as far as they were concerned. After working ten hours a day in the factory or elsewhere, he was prepared to sit down with Mr. Smith and try to learn something a bit different. They often worked up to mid¬night and whether they went on for one or two hours longer they were not particular.
Mr. Smith, who revealed a fertile sense of humour, said that most men considered 60 years a large slice out of their life and some ladies regarded it as a tragic slice out of theirs. (Laughter.) They were met that evening to do honour, to whom honour was due:- their dear old schoolmaster, who for 39 years had charge of the Church School. He might say a great deal about education, but he would content himself by saying that the present system was not exactly the kind he would recommend. Instead of the present-day "cramming" he would prefer that steps should be taken to discover and develop what was in a child. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Smith went on to say that the scholars produced by the Church School were "a fair good sample" and made good citizens. He was proud of his associations with Mr. Pollard, whose influence on the school and its scholars had been felt over a long period. As a boy he lived at Brogden and he well remem¬bered walking to and from the Church School. He was afraid he did not often get there on time; in fact he had been late as a scholar, late as a teacher and late as a husband throughout life (laughter). He re¬called that Mr.Pollard had once given him an essay to write on punctuality. "I was well able to write on that subject," continued the speaker, "because I knew everything about punctuality except how to practise it.” (Laughter), "I was often reminded of the old proverb: "The early bird catches the worm,' but I always thought it was the worm's fault for being up so soon." (Laughter.)

OVER STILES TO SCHOOL.

Mr. Smith then presented a handsome smoking cabinet to Mr. Pollard amid loud applause. The cabinet bore the following inscription: —
"Presented to Alfred Pollard, Esq., on the occasion of the Church Day School's Jubilee celebrations, January 6th, 1934." Gifts of two pipes and a large tin of tobacco from Mr, Windle and Mr. Smith were con¬tained in the cabinet. The recipient had a rousing ovation when be rose to respond. Mr. Pollard confessed that ho had expected only a small token and consequently, it came as a big surprise to him to receive such a handsome present. He felt it was a great privilege to take part in those celebrations, and he was glad to see such a large number taking an interest in the old school. The history of the school had been dealt with in a recent issue of "The National," the school magazine, but he would like to add the names of some who had been prominently connected with the school in its early days.


Mr. Pollard proceeded to read the follow¬ing list:—
Messrs. B. Dean, Thos. Smith, John Armistead, James Waterworth, William P. Atkinson, James Nuttall, H. Ashley, Fred Bracewell, Alfred Pilkington, — Peel, W. B. Duckworth, John Widdup, Procter Barrett, Charles Shuttleworth, John Walmsley, T. Briggs, William Lambert, James Kidd, William Perry, Harrison Bailey and William Atkinson, junr.
"If I gave a list of all the lady workers, I should require a paper a yard long," added the speaker.
Continuing in reminiscent vein, Mr. Pollard said that when the school was opened there were green fields on three sides. York Street did not go past the school, and it was the same with Wellington Street, while even Chapel Street had a wall across the top. In order to get to the school, one had to climb over stiles and pick one's way along country paths. On one occasion an inspector lost his shoe in the process.
The school began with Miss Smith and himself, and at that time the infants were combined in one room. The first assistant teacher was Mr. Anderton, of Accrington, who left to prepare for the ministry, and, unfortunately, died through overwork whilst studying. Then came Mr. Robson, who had some difficulty in finding Barnoldswick, which was not on the map. Also among the early assistants were Mr. John Armistead and Mr. Thomas Smith, the latter leaving as a pupil teacher before he had finished his time. Throughout its history the school had had splendid teachers, hard workers and loyal to the backbone. He was glad to see that several of the old teachers were still going strong.

FEE-PAYING DAYS.

"We began with 80 scholars," Mr. Pollard went on, "and at that time 'full-timers' paid a fee of 4d. and 'half-timers' 3d. a week. If they brought their money on Monday morning we were sure they were going to come the whole week. (Laughter.) There was spinning as well as weaving in Barnolds¬wick in those days, and the children who worked half-time in the spinning mills were known as 'doffers'."
The subjects taught in the schools were the "three R's." Government inspectors stayed in the town for weeks at a time, and each child had to be examined individually in reading, writing and arithmetic. Strenuous efforts had to be made to bring the more backward pupils up to the standard of the brighter ones, and this led to a certain amount of "cramming." He thought that it was much nicer teaching to-day, although there were more subjects.
On behalf of himself and Mr. Windle, Mr. Smith presented a set of tobacco pipes to Mr. E. W. Robson, former headmaster of the Samlesbury School, Blackburn, and now living in retirement at Lytham St. Annes.

Mr. Robson replied in suitable terms. "I spent nearly seven years within the four walls of the Church School working as an assistant under one of the best and ablest head teachers I have ever come across in my whole career," said Mr. Robson. For 32 years he had been headmaster of the Samlesbury School, which had been held up as an example in the House of Commons. The prominence that school had attained was due very largely to the training he had received at the hands of Mr. Pollard. The speaker laughingly recalled his first railway journey from Leeds to Bar¬noldswick, and caused much amusement by confessing his belief that "Barlick" and "Barnoldswick" were two different places. In conclusion, he congratulated the managers on the progress of the Church School, and expressed strong approval of the readiness shown by the Church people of the town to undertake any improvements recommended by the authorities.



TEACHERS' LONG SERVICE.

To commemorate their long, service, gifts of book-ends in Dalton china were handed by Mr. Smith to Mrs. Allum (34 years), Miss Waite (31 years) and Mr. Levi Turner (27 years). All three made fitting replies.

A surprise presentation of a fountain pen and cigarettes was made to Mr. H. Belshaw (present headmaster) on behalf of the school managers.
Mr. Belshaw, who was obviously' taken unawares, jokingly confessed that "the biter had been bitten" He thanked the managers for the gift and what it betokened. In the presence of so many old scholars, he felt like a little boy who should be seen and not heard. (Laughter,) Those jubilee celebra¬tions had been to him, and he felt sure to the remainder of the staff, great encourage¬ment. They had met people who had not passed through his hands, but had done extraordinarily well. They were real good men and women, and they had encouraged the staff to carry forward the work of the school.

Mr. H. Wilson, J.P. (Chairman of the Barnoldswick Urban District Council), said he had always held Mr. Pollard in high regard, adding that the members of the Council were greatly interested in all the schools in the town. Mr. Pollard had taught boys and girls the way of right living, and that work was being faithfully carried on by the present headmaster and his assistants. (Applause.)
Mr. J. Armistead, who is now a head¬master at Colne, recalled that when he began as a candidate teacher at the Barnoldswick Church School his salary was 3s. 6d. per fortnight, while his first remuneration as a pupil teacher was 5s. a week.
The last speaker was Mr. S. Bowker, C.C. (chairman of the Barnoldswick Education Sub-Committee). Mr. Bowker emphasised the value of education and pointed out that if this country was to return to prosperity with the other nations of the world, the standard must be kept up.

FIFTY CANDLES.

In the course of the evening, solos were given by Mrs. Windle, Mrs. E. Clough, Miss H. Wright, Messrs. C. Midgley (Kelbrook), Allan Garnett, M. Green and J. Hardisty, while Mr. J. Demaline (conjurer) also enter¬tained. All the artistes were old scholars.
During two intervals the following pieces were delight¬fully executed by Mr. A. C. Peckover's School Orchestra, under the direction of Miss Annie Lund "Stand Chen," "Diadem," "School March," "Hibernia," "Melodies of all nations" and "Blue Danube." Miss E. Akrigg, ALCM, was the pianist.
A large birthday cake, bedecked with fifty burning candles, was greatly admired. Mr. Pollard made the first incision, and pieces were afterwards sold to members, of the company.
For the unqualified success of the Jubilee celebrations, special praise is due to Messrs. H. Belshaw and John Peel (joint secretaries"), and Mr. A. Atkinson (treasurer).


Transcribed from “The Craven Herald” Friday, January 12th 1934
2485
John Turner September 2019

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 58360
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 05 Sep 2019, 03:13

Another good post John. Thanks....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 14 Dec 2019, 20:44

I asked you in March , Stanley , where you thought John Widdup may have gone to school. Today I have been doing a bit of background research and i found this article in the Craven News, February 1877. John would have been six and a half years old when he won this first prize. A young talent I think. As I say on my postings. IF YOU KEEP SEARCHING YOU WILL FIND IT!
7A5A49D2-0119-44A5-B798-F796B4A026E1.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
If you keep searching you will find it

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 58360
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 15 Dec 2019, 03:08

Nice one Sue. So I didn't disgrace myself.... Not sure if I have come across the term 'Mother School' before, but it does sound vaguely familiar.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Sue
Senior Member
Posts: 3974
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:04
Location: Somewhere up norf!

Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 15 Dec 2019, 08:05

Stanley wrote:
15 Dec 2019, 03:08
Nice one Sue. So I didn't disgrace myself.... Not sure if I have come across the term 'Mother School' before, but it does sound vaguely familiar.
I have come across Mother Church but nor Mother school. Interesting article. I love British Newspaper Archives Online. Well worth the annual subscription. I found another interesting article yesterday about the Rochdale to Bacup railway line describing its route along and through what is now the Shawclough and Healey Dell bridle path
If you keep searching you will find it

Post Reply

Return to “Local History Topics”