WW2 service records

[Wendyf]

Just before Xmas I sent off for my dad's service record. I found out how to apply from this website and as my mum is still alive, I filled in the forms on her behalf (with her agreement) so there was no cost involved.
Dad was a ground gunner and then a small arms instructor in the RAF and we knew a lot about his service in the Middle East. We have many photographs of his time out there, he talked quite a lot about it in later years and left his journal about his time out there for us to find after he died. Mum and he met when he was on leave before being shipped out to the Middle East and they wrote to each other on a daily basis from 1941 to 1946 when he was demobbed.
We didn't expect to find anything we didn't already know about in Dad's service record, but when my brother & I sat down to decipher it after Xmas we got quite a surprise. After 2 weeks at the recruits centre in Blackpool he was posted to the RAF station at Tangmere in Sussex. He arrived there on the 15/7/1940 and was there till the beginning of May 1941. So he was there for the Battle of Britain, at one of the main bases for the RAF at the time, and he never spoke about it. It was almost completely destroyed by German bombers on the 16th August 1940 and he was there....

[PanBiker]

Nice information Wendy, I am intending at some point to do the same for my dad. I know some of his service in Iceland as I have his diary and other documents but his later service in the RAOC when he was awarded his B.E.M. I have little detail of. He never really said anything about it so I will have to apply and see if I can get some more details of the circumstance.

[Wendyf]

The information you get is very sparse Ian, just a list of the units and movement dates. There are also records of promotions, qualifications and medals received. Although a list of common abbreviations is provided with the record, some of it remains a mystery or just illegible.
The one I am having most trouble finding anything out about is 8304 AD Wing where he went in May 45. The next entry is Disemb. Cont. in June 45, returning to Padgate three months later then back to 8304 AD Wing. From the abbreviations list I can see that AD stands for Air Depot, and according to Mum he spent time out in Germany after VE Day, so I presume he disembarked to the continent with 8304 Ad Wing. For once Google has no answer!

[Stanley]

Good information Wendy....

[Wendyf]

Before he died Dad digitised & labelled a collection of old photos for me, and amongst them is a picture of a property captioned "commandeered for the sergeant's mess in Delmenhorst, North Germany 1945".
Does anyone know what he might have been doing there?

[PanBiker]

There is a snippet of information on this Wikipedia Link the area was used as a clearing station for displaced persons from Eastern Germany which was then in the Russian zone. It was under British control.

[Wendyf]

Thanks Ian.
I took the plunge last night and looked at some of Dad's letters to Mum from that period....it felt a bit intrusive, pages & pages of passion and desperation to be home! The return address he gives is 8304 AD Wing (Unit) B.L.A. Perhaps this is why I can't find any reference to the unit in RAF records, could it be a unit of the British Liberation Army?
He doesn't seem to have had much to do except to write endless letters! He talks of setting up the training, so I assume he was still involved with small arms training, and he was asked to carry out his trade as a barber on the base. He got a room to set up "shop" and three whole days a week free from duties to cut hair! I get the feeling that there was a nervousness about servicemen fraternising with the locals, he mentions something about threatened prison sentences of 3 years for just talking to German girls.
In one letter he encloses the programme for a concert party on the base that he enjoyed, where all the performers are refugees.
Some interesting snippets now and again amongst the intensely personal stuff.

[Stanley]

Wendy, if you dig into the matter you'll find that on active service fraternisation with locals was discouraged. There were two main reasons, Venereal Disease and accusations of rape by the women. Not a lot of reporting about this but it happened. As late as 1954, AFN were broadcasting a message which went something like this: (apologies for the graphic language) "You like her. She likes it. Remember, a blobby knob delays demob!" I kid you not.....

[Wendyf]

I've been delving into the family history box yet again looking for a telegram which my dad sent to Mum on May 8th 1945. It raises more questions about where he was based and what 8304 Air Disarmament Wing was. Its 10 years since I last looked at this and there is still very little information out there!
His records show that he was attached to 8304 AD Wing on 3rd May and letters show he was in Delmenhorst soon after VE Day. The story was that Mum and Dad were together in London the night of May 8th, the anniversary of their one and only date in 1941.
The telegram instructs Mum to "come to Littlehampton immediately" so what was he doing in Littlehampton? There wasn't an RAF station there, but was it close to Tangmere?

[attachment=0]PXL_20230430_144352513.jpg[/attachment]

[Stanley]

I found this query Wendy...
I´m looking for ORB of 8301 Air Disarmament Wing or any other information dealing with V2-Weapons in Lower Saxony.
Could your dad have been looking for evidence of V weapons or rockets?

[Wendyf]

I found this query Wendy...
I´m looking for ORB of 8301 Air Disarmament Wing or any other information dealing with V2-Weapons in Lower Saxony.
Could your dad have been looking for evidence of V weapons or rockets?

That was all I could find too Stanley. Dad was a ground gunner and then a small arms instructor, and I'm sure that was his role within the unit at Delmenhorst, he talks about setting up a training school as well as his barber's shop as a sideline.

[Stanley]

From my experience in Berlin 1954-56, post war Germany was a very strange place in terms of intelligence activity. It wasn't clear to us at the time, but we were fairly certain there was a lot of funny business and since then I have found we were right. I have little doubt that your dad was serving with a unit that was looking for evidence of residual Nazi activity. There was a lot more of that about then anyone has ever admitted.

[Wendyf]

I've just discovered that Ancestry now has RAF Operations Record Books online if anyone is interested. I've been following the progress of 260 Squadron from Drem to Tobruk and tying it in with Dad's journal...fascinating stuff.

[Tizer]

I have little doubt that your dad was serving with a unit that was looking for evidence of residual Nazi activity. There was a lot more of that about then anyone has ever admitted.

The danger from Nazi sympathisers reminds me of this...
In his autobiography, Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown describes how he was despatched to Germany at the end of the war with orders to bring back one of every type of Luftwaffe aircraft for study at Farnborough, including prototypes of ones not yet in operation. He flew all the aircraft himself, including jet prototypes. Of course he needed to make sure the planes were properly and safely set up for a long flight - and for some there was no manual then available. He did a search for German Luftwaffe ground crew with the appropriate knowledge and experience, taking great care to interview each one in depth (he spoke German and had spent time in Germany with flyers before the war). Eventually he built up a team of trusted Germans and put his life in their hands. They were in awe of his flying and his bravery and became loyal to him. When they'd completed the task Brown was told to go to Norway and fly back German aircraft from there. His team went with him and he was never let down.

Included in the aircraft they prepared for him and which he flew successfully was the rocket-powered Messerschmitt Me 163B-1a Komet. In 2015 he was united with the aircraft at a museum and said:
“I was pleased to have the opportunity to see the Komet again, 70 years after I flew it. I was very determined to fly this rocket aircraft back in 1945 because to me it was the most exciting thing on the horizon, a totally new experience. I remember watching the ground crew very carefully before take-off, wondering if they thought they were waving goodbye to me forever or whether they thought this thing was going to return.
“The noise it made was absolutely thunderous, and it was like being in charge of a runaway train; everything changed so rapidly and I really had to have my wits about me. I had been used to the top fighters in the game with rates of climb of about 3,000 feet per minute, but this thing climbed at 16,000 feet per minute. The angle of climb was about 45 degrees and I couldn’t see the horizon. It was an incredibly volatile aircraft, and its operational record – just 16 kills and 10 aircraft lost in combat – made it, in my opinion, a tool of desperation.” Reunion

[Stanley]

A proper flying circus!

[PanBiker]

I think I have posted this somewhere else but ill shove it here as its relevant. I received an email from Nation Archives regarding my dads service records, They closed the original request forwarded by the Army earlier under the 100 year rule because they assumed that my dad was still alive, he would be 105 if he was! I sent off his death certificate from 30 years ago which they have now accepted! I had already done this previously with the Army Personnel Department but apparently they don't talk to each other so any submissions there are void.

They have sent me a new NA reference number for correspondence and told me that my application is now in the system from the day they received it and that recovery of any records could take up to six months. So, I live in hope of something maybe before Christmas. No mention yet of any payment.

[Tripps]

I live in hope of something maybe before Christmas

I'm sure you will get a result.

Just be thankful you're not dealing with the Malaysian MOD too. It took nearly three years to get my Pingat Jasa medal.

[Stanley]

We get these intriguing clues to a mis-spent youth.....

[PanBiker]

Just be thankful you're not dealing with the Malaysian MOD too. It took nearly three years to get my Pingat Jasa medal.

Wasn't the delay more to do with the British Government at the time regarding some nonsense rule about "foreign medals"? Yes I know it was a Labour government as well.

Malaysian Service Medal

[Tripps]

Wasn't the delay more to do with the British Government at the time regarding some nonsense rule about "foreign medals"?

No. That was a long time ago, and didn't affect my application. My delay was caused solely by the Malaysian bureaucracy.

PS If you look here you will see that the Malaysians in the person of the Yang di Pertuan Agong (wonderful title) are qute generous wth their medals - to the point perhaps of devaluing their honours.

I think the Brits were right to delay things. Malaysian Decorations

[PanBiker]

Since my dads records are now held by the National Archive. I currently get two emails per week from them, they are both identical and sent on consecutive days. They remind me that my dads records are now governed by the Freedom of Information Act (2000) and that they haven't found or processed them yet.

"It is our legislative duty to inform you that unfortunately, we have not yet been able to provide you with your requested information. We are currently experiencing a very high volume of requests but please be assured that your case is still being progressed. We will next be in touch once your case has been resolved.

Please be aware that this department is currently handling an exceptionally high volume of cases, so it will take us longer than usual to respond to your request. We will update you regularly on the progress of your case. To allow us to process cases as efficiently as possible, please note that we will not be able to answer standard queries or hasteners of cases between these updates. We apologise for the delay and thank you for your continued patience. For more information, please visit our FAQs page".

[Stanley]

Another way of saying that would be to admit that they haven't enough staff to deal with the volume of business due to cuts in funding..... But that would never do!

[PanBiker]

"We will next be in touch once your case has been resolved".

That statement is actually untrue. A pound to a penny that next week I will receive two carbon copy emails of this weeks offerings.

[Stanley]

An automated response most likely which intends to give you the impression someone is actually doing something.

[PanBiker]

Quite probably, they are "signed" by the Quality Manager who apparently doesn't have a real name.