MEDICAL MATTERS

[Sue]

I take medication for restless leg syndrome. It causes insomnia. I would rather have insomnia than restless leg any day. I have a remedy. I read Samuel Pepys Diary. By the time I have battled with. 17 th century diary jargon and politics sleep soon returns

[Stanley]

Tiz, try my solution. Get up and start the day and go to bed for a couple of hours in the afternoon..... I've never regarded wakening up early as a problem but an advantage. Perhaps that's my secret but everyone is different. However I sympathise because it's quite obvious it's distressing you.

[Marilyn]

I get restless leg syndrome. I don't take anything.
I am blessed with a massive King sized bed and a hubby who is sound asleep within 2 minutes of putting his Sleep Apnoea Machine on. I find the rhythm of the machine calming. I wriggle about without disturbing him in all the space we have, but I swear it is the very quiet "whoosh whoosh" of the machine that calms me.
I do worry when we are in the confines of our motor home...but so far it's never been a problem.

there is no s a "medication" for restless leg syndrome?
Not that I would ever take any but what is it?

I did take Magnesium for a few weeks, but had to abandon it because it upset my stomach.

[Sue]

There is a medication ,in fact there are loads of them I have suffered with it all my life but in recent years it got unbearable. My Dr gave me pramipexole. They are all drugs used for Parkinson's disease but in much lower doses. The theory being that both conditions have involuntary muscle spasms. The drugs calm them in the same way. I can take up to 6 per night of the dose I take, but normally I just take 2. It is preventative and not a treatment, so once the legs start and I want to hang from the ceiling they won't stop it. Then all I can do is get in a warm bed or possibly a warm bath without or with pain killers which may or may not work.

I was at the end of my tether when I mentioned it to the Dr. As I child my Dad use to massage my legs for hours. Growing pains they said, but I stopped growing and the pain/ discomfort continued getting worse and worse. I wish I had known earlier in life that there was medication for it. I can't imagine saying I wouldn't take it . I get so distressed when I get a bad attack I have to keep walking round the house and feel terribly sick. I get to screaming pitch with it. If I take the medicine every night I can control the attacks to perhaps one a week instead of every single day of my life.

[Marilyn]

I'm nowhere near that bad.
It is extremely irritating and does give me the Heebie Jeebies...and it can get a bit sore. I get so annoyed when my head wants to go to sleep and my legs want to play Soccer.
Strange you find warmth helps. I like to walk around on a cold tiled floor! ( and that helps immensely). I just plod about in the dark in our bathroom for 10 mins, barefoot. Very soothing.

Worst nightmare would be getting it on a plane when the seat belt sign is on and you aren't allowed out of your seat. ( I always have a little word with my legs, wag my finger at them and say "Now don't start!".)
I saw a video of a woman with terrible restless leg syndrome once...felt so sorry for her. I'd say mine must be mild with moderate outbursts.
I get a bit annoyed at folk who tout Magnesium for all sorts of cures. I didn't really find much improvement. Didn't matter what time of day I took it, I still got Nausea.
I don't drink Coffee or Tea after 3pm and I feel that helps with my "soccer legs" at night.

[Stanley]

I think I have had it occasionally but always mild and I associated it with my back. Reading about your joint travails makes me realise how lucky I am!

[Sue]

I'm nowhere near that bad.
It is extremely irritating and does give me the Heebie Jeebies...and it can get a bit sore. I get so annoyed when my head wants to go to sleep and my legs want to play Soccer.
Strange you find warmth helps. I like to walk around on a cold tiled floor! ( and that helps immensely). I just plod about in the dark in our bathroom for 10 mins, barefoot. Very soothing.

Worst nightmare would be getting it on a plane when the seat belt sign is on and you aren't allowed out of your seat. ( I always have a little word with my legs, wag my finger at them and say "Now don't start!".)
I saw a video of a woman with terrible restless leg syndrome once...felt so sorry for her. I'd say mine must be mild with moderate outbursts.
I get a bit annoyed at folk who tout Magnesium for all sorts of cures. I didn't really find much improvement. Didn't matter what time of day I took it, I still got Nausea.
I don't drink Coffee or Tea after 3pm and I feel that helps with my "soccer legs" at night.

I agree about the plane. I have had attacks when we have been driving back from France. Bob stops for a bit but it doesn't really relieve it completely. We walk around for a bit , have a coffee and then I try and sleep in the car. I don't think Magnesium would work, that's muscle related and this is nerve related. I have never heard of that recommendation. I have never found any common cause except extreme tiredness can bring it on. After a very active day when I sit down can bring it on too, as can alcohol. But then another time there appears to be no cause at all. My GP says no one knows what causes it.

[Sue]

I have tried the cold treatment too, also lying flat on the floor but as sleep seems to be the best remedy I think the warmth helps to induce the sleep. Surprisingly normal pain killers have little effect, but they sometimes help induce the sleep by relaxing. I have tried relaxation exercises with contracting and relaxing the muscles but my legs are so busy twitching it's almost impossible to do.

[Marilyn]

Magnesium seems to be touted here, even if you are buying simple Paracetamol for a headache! There is always a fresh faced 12 year old (joking) counter assistant asking "have you tried Magnesium?"
Yes I have! It doesn't work!
Answer always is " yes...but how many milligrams did you take? You need the Super Strength."
( groan)
Reply..."I have the Super Strength"
Infant counter assistant responds..."yes but is that ACTUAL Magnesium or CONVERTED Magnesium?"
(Groan)
I don't @&?!!@ know, but it makes me feel sick. I will have the Paracetamol THANKYOU!

Snake Oil. They still sell it!

[Tizer]

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions about my sleep problem. I'm late responding because my time has been taken up with the extra tasks of preparing the house for sale, viewing other houses...and catching up on sleep! We had a day off yesterday to visit the annual Rock & Gem Show at the Bath & West Showground to add some more lovely specimens to my collection and to gossip with collectors and sellers. Mrs Tiz enjoys it too and it took our minds off houses.

I gave the zoplicone a try but it had little or no effect on me other than the well-known side-effects of bad taste (phenolic, metallic) and dry mouth. The taste is so bad and long lasting that I wonder if it's deliberately made that way to prevent over-use or kids taking it. Taking a pill when going to bed was no good, I was wide awake by 2.30. Another night I took one instead when I was awake at 2.30 - still no effect. Last night I had one at 4.30 and eventually got back to sleep, though whether it was due to the drug or not I'm not sure. At 8.00 I was wide awake, no drowsy after-effects and only the bad taste/dry mouth to content with. So, marks of 1 out 10, I think for zoplicone.

Thanks for the suggestion of evening walks, Maz. We have our walks during the day, when we discuss lots of matters from planning holidays to what to have for tea to natural history to gossip etc etc. The usual advice is, I believe, to walk first thing in the morning to get the early burst of daylight on your retinas which stimulates the production of melatonin.

Tripps, the zoplicone is the lowest strength and I was given only seven pills to help me until I see the doc next Friday. I won't get hooked - the lack of effect and the bad taste will see to that! I agree with the suggestion to work it out for yourself and I'm much in favour of finding a solution that doesn't involving using drugs. I've tried all sorts of methods but so far to no avail and the visit to the doc is because I need something for the occasional `emergencies' - a bout of house buying/selling and a holiday - until I do find a better solution.

Moh, I can understand the logic behind `not looking at the clock' which works for you. Ignoring the clock doesn't seem to help me and I end up looking at it to decide whether it's worth getting up for a while and having something to eat and drink.

Stanley, getting up and starting the day then catching up later works for you. It's not ideal for me because when I get up early I'm not just tired, I'm in a confused state and not fit for anything, not even for going out for a walk or reading or viewing the web.

I'm told the doc's going to check me to see if he can identify anything else that's not right and could be causing the sleep problems and the resulting confusion. In the meantime I'm trying mindfulness and various ways of switching off my mind.

Yes, Ian, we watched the Moseley programme on sleep loss but were not impressed. I've copied this, which I emailed to a friend: "Typical Michael Moseley. Nothing new, superficial and very little real explanation of how things like the prebiotic affect sleep quality. It's well-known that eating a prebiotic `feeds' the gut bacteria and they in turn manufacture and release short-chain fatty acids. But he didn't make any attempt to explain how those acids might influence sleep patterns. The experiments are not scientifically sound and just done for entertainment but unfortunately they give the public the idea that a research scientist's job is easy and science is cheap. He never mentioned the hormone melatonin which is crucial to sleep."

Ultimately, whether we go to sleep or not is all down to chemicals in the brain and blood and the levels of these are influenced by, among other things, the intensity, duration and wavelengths of light reaching the eye's retina. My problem will be caused by an imbalance of these chemicals. My aim is to find a safe way to get this balance restored but by doing it without using drugs and preferably by controlling my mind. And it's got to be a system that can fit in with daily life!

[Sue]

"Yes, Ian, we watched the Moseley programme on sleep loss but were not impressed. I've copied this, which I emailed to a friend: "Typical Michael Moseley. Nothing new, superficial and very little real explanation of how things like the prebiotic affect sleep quality. It's well-known that eating a prebiotic `feeds' the gut bacteria and they in turn manufacture and release short-chain fatty acids. But he didn't make any attempt to explain how those acids might influence sleep patterns. The experiments are not scientifically sound and just done for entertainment but unfortunately they give the public the idea that a research scientist's job is easy and science is cheap. He never mentioned the hormone melatonin which is crucial"





As with so many of these programmes they are dumbed down to make good television rather than good science. I did however find the link with high blood sugar interesting although I had said stress hormone to Bob before they did. I watched a channel 5 programme about Restless Leg Syndrome a few weeks ago. It was utter rubbish. It was all case studies, with people self harming to produce an alternative pain. No mention of cause, no mention of treatments, in fact no mention of anything much. I could have done better myself.


Hope you get your sleep sorted Tiz, if you will excuse the pun..sleepless nights are a bit of a nightmare.

[Wendyf]

I'm a fan of Dr Rangan Chattergee, and am looking forward to his new series of Doctor In The House starting tomorrow on BBC1 at 9.00pm. Let's hope he hasn't become dumbed down too!

[PanBiker]

Not watched the program myself yet just thought I would mention it, might not bother now.

I don't have a problem myself thankfully apart from a period when our Dan died. I had all manner of "what ifs" racing round in my head and couldn't shut them off, this eased with time. I am generally off within a few minutes, we do have lined curtains and we turn the intense blue LED display of the radio alarm face down. The room is proper dark once that is sorted, you can open your eyes and think they are closed so I think that is a help.

[Stanley]

I agree about Moseley. When I first saw his programmes they interested me but I think they have deteriorated as they 'look for trouble'. He has typical TV presenter's syndrome where the presenter is more in evidence than the subject. I started watching the programme on sleep but gave up after ten minutes and looked anvils up on Youtube, far more sense!
Far more sense I can identify with in your various comments as well. Maz, I hate the modern trend towards the chemist questioning you about what you want whatever you have asked you for. I usually end it telling them I have eighty years experience of it.....
Light doesn't bother me, I can sleep in bright sunlight.
I wish all of you improvement and some relief. The one thing I am sure about is that sleep is a great healer and we all need it!

[Marilyn]

I can sleep in bright sunlight too.
I can't sleep in a closed bedroom though. I like the door open and the window open. Love a breeze in my face as I sleep.

[Tizer]

I started watching the programme on sleep but gave up after ten minutes and looked up anvils on Youtube...

Oh, I love that! You made my day with that comment Stanley. I tried to tell Mrs Tiz but almost couldn't do it for laughing!

I find it hard to sleep during the day but it doesn't make much difference whether I'm in a dark or light room. On the other hand, light summer mornings prevent me getting back to sleep once I've woken. Funny stuff, sleep. I've stopped the zoplicone for now and I'm back to attempting mental methods for bringing on sleep during the early hours. I guess others would describe it as mindfulness but that's a word I tend to avoid because for me it still has the older meaning - equivalent to `remember' or `take care': "Be mindful you buy something for tonight's tea". The usual advice is to concentrate your mind on something but that doesn't get me to sleep. I'm minded (there we go again, mindful) of the teachings of meditation - you have to concentrate your mind on something rather than simply falling asleep. I'm trying to do the opposite, not meditating but going to sleep. So I need to banish all thought from my mind but I find it difficult, even though I've known some people who seem to be doing that most of the time! If I can manage it then an empty mind seems to work for me. I've just got to practise and find the best ways of doing it.

Sue and Maz, I've been going on about my sleep problems but they're as nothing compared with your restless leg troubles. I hope you can get relief quickly when needed.

[Wendyf]

I sleep well most of the time but suffer from bouts of waking up at 2am and not getting back to sleep till its almost time to wake up. Having tried many ways of getting back to sleep I have found that the most successful for me is to try and keep my eyes open and to concentrate on staying awake!

[Sue]

Tiz, the medication my GP gave me was a life saver. Attacks now are usually, as I said about once a week and not daily and are a good indication of acute tiredness. If I go to bed straightaway I am usually asleep in minutes. If it is deemed too early then I take a bath or go for a walk. It sometimes, indeed often helps.The problem is when I can't do carry out these remedies. Then it really is an issue.

[Stanley]

Tiz, to paraphrase Kipling; "Some people can see further into an anvil than most". Don't knock it, look them up, fascinating history. Like you, I dislike the modern usage of 'mindfulness'. They are re-inventing the wheel, as far as I can see it's old fashioned meditation, exercising your brain. I always associate it with relaxing, posture and being aware of your breathing. Watch a cat or a dog when they wake up, they stretch and then relax, exactly the same thing. In my head it's like running a steam engine, you have to constantly check and be aware of its condition. A good habit to cultivate. As Susi once told me, "Listen to the body! It never lies!"

[Tizer]

I'm not knocking anvils, Stanley: I wouldn't dream of it! It's just that for the average person like me anvils will never be the most exciting thing in the world, so your sentence was amusing for me.

[Stanley]

I know Tiz.... don't worry I wasn't offended. Jimmy, the smith at West Marton, had a Swedish all steel anvil, a Sodofors, it rang like a bell.

[Stanley]

Update on the effects of adopting the Wendy diet. I have settled down to simply banning bread, pasta, rice and spuds (except for an occasional treat.....). I don't worry about fat content beyond making sure it isn't excessive and restricting my fats to natural ones. I am definitely benefiting from it though will admit my weight varies between 175 and 182 lbs when the target is 168. My clothes fit me and I am not beating myself over the head!

[Wendyf]

I stopped losing weight a while ago and have settled around 122lbs but my waist measurement continues to shrink. My skin isn't as dry and my nails have strengthened, I never feel hungry and I can still climb the hill home from Kelbrook at a smart pace without getting breathless. It's wonderful!

[Stanley]

I agree Wendy. I have been surprised by surprising slight improvements. Tinnitus, balance, hearing, energy, skin tone, breathing, small pains..... In all these, no miracles but a gradual improvement. Of course we can never be sure and my next diabetes assessment will fill in some details. However, even if they tell me that some parameters haven't improved I shall refuse any change in treatment because I feel better than I have for the last 15 years. This is not an illusion but real life.
Like you I have stopped worrying about my weight. Mind you, I am still practising abstinence in that I am not doing anything stupid but I never allow myself to feel hungry. The abstinence is a rejection of what I recognise as 'comfort eating'. All in all it's wonderful and thank you very much Wendy for alerting me to the benefits.

[Sue]

I too have reduced my portions of complex carbohydrates . I find that I can no longer eat large ones. I lost about 1 pound every 4-6 weeks My weight has now settled out at about 18 pounds less than when I had my slipped disc 5 or 6 years ago. The Pilates twice a week and the speed yoga have toned me and my inches have considerably reduced this year. So much so that my sewing teacher Had to alter my dress for Claire's wedding when she had made it because the measurements we had, had changed. I have just finished redoing my last pattern block today, for shorts, ready for the summer if we have one!