DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Tripps]

I had a call from an Indian lad called 'Jack Peter' or so he said. We had a nice chat, and I said I doubted it was his real name. He said there are many Jacks in India, and did I realise that they had a population of 125 Crore? so there must be quite a few called Jack? I remain sceptical.

He said he was just asking me questions, and not selling anything. I didn't answer any of his questions, but as we parted he thanked me for being polite to him and told me to have a nice day.

I knew that 100,00 in India is a Lakh. Now I know that a Crore is 10 million.

[Stanley]

Nice one David. Relic of the Indian Army?

[Tripps]

Relic of the Indian Army?

No - the Indian systemfor large numbers is quite different to ours, and is still extant.

[Stanley]

Sorry, I was thinking about the name Jack.......

[PanBiker]

When we named our lad Jack a mere 31 years ago a few of the older Aunties were most disgruntled in our choice and said "Tha can't call him Jack, that's not a proper name". We of course took no notice and our Jack is well, Jack. When we we started our family we said that we we would never name any of our kids after parents or such. When Jack came along we reneged and he became Jack Thomas, Jack after my dad who was actually a John but called Jack by many of the older end when he was a lad (hence the dismissal) and Thomas (who was Thomas) after Sally's dad, they were both "made up". Jack both likes his name and is a Jack if you know what I mean.

[Stanley]

I agree with you Ian. I think a lot of it goes back to pedantic priests who used to refuse to baptise if the forename wasn't a classic old one. Everyone changed their tune in the 14th century when surnames had to be assigned for identification for tax purposes. They were almost all made up. After all they accepted Johnson and Jackson!

[PanBiker]

John, Jack, Johan, Ian, Yan are all derivatives of John. I am Ian after my dad and Robert after his brother, so Bob really was my Uncle.

[Stanley]

I was named after my uncle Stan and Stanley is actually a surname deriving from Stoneleigh. In Chinese, the pronunciation of Stanley means 'stand and bow'.

[Stanley]

I found myself using the term 'looming' in the sense of Big Kev tending to tower above you. Now where did that usage come from?

[Tripps]

Loom - seems to derive from German or Dutch word meaning smoky or misty. Could it be connected to the Scots word 'lumb' as in "lang may your lunb reek"?

Now what I really came here for

I've seen the word catfished used a couple of times recently. Time to get up to date.

Catfishing is the activity of luring someone into a relationship by means of a fictional persona carried out via dating websites and apps, social media, chat rooms and instant messaging platforms. A “catfisher” may choose to use their own photos yet pretend to be a different age, sex, profession, in a different location, and be single when they are not. A catfisher can also use someone else’s photos to create their fake identity.

Sounds like a lot of totally pointelss fun.

[Stanley]

Not much fun if you are grooming or phishing David!
I like the explanation of 'looming'.

[plaques]

Written on my retirement farewell card by a Scotsman... Lang may yer lum reek. Literally meaning 'long may your chimney smoke', this is the best way to wish someone a long and healthy life.
I tend to think that Tripps has got at the root of the meaning.

[Tripps]

Lang may yer lum reek.

That's what I meant to put. I think I was influenced by SCG's use of the word 'numb' meaning stupid recently. It's a long time since I've heard it used in that way.

[plaques]

You (I) learn something new every day. Dropped across this while drifting about Google The ampersand (&) used to be part of our alphabet. Came at the tail end after Z. Worth reading this little explanation. Link.
'The word “ampersand” came many years later when “&” was actually part of the English alphabet. In the early 1800s, school children reciting their ABCs concluded the alphabet with the &. It would have been confusing to say “X, Y, Z, and.” Rather, the students said, “and per se and.” “Per se” means “by itself,” so the students were essentially saying, “X, Y, Z, and by itself and.” Over time, “and per se and” was slurred together into the word we use today: ampersand. When a word comes about from a mistaken pronunciation, it’s called a mondegreen.'

[Tripps]

I've mentioned mondegreen a couple of times over the years, but can't find it with a search. Time to repeat -

The word Mondegreen, meaning a mishearing of a popular phrase or song lyric, was coined by the writer Sylvia Wright.

As a child she had heard the Scottish ballad "The Bonny Earl of Murray" and had believed that one stanza went like this:
Ye Highlands and Ye Lowlands
Oh where hae you been?
They hae slay the Earl of Murray,
And Lady Mondegreen.

Poor Lady Mondegreen, thought Sylvia Wright. A tragic heroine dying with her liege; how poetic. When it turned out, some years later, that what they had actually done was slay the Earl of Murray and lay him on the green, Wright was so distraught by the sudden disappearance of her heroine that she memorialized her with a neologism.

PS Earl of Murray didn't look right - I like this better -

James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray ruled Scotland as a very effective Regent for James VI until 23 January 1570. During a visit to Linlithgow he was assassinated by James Hamilton of Bothwellhaugh, a supporter of Mary. In death he wrote one last small footnote in history: his was the first ever recorded assassination by a firearm anywhere in the world. James Stewart was buried at St Giles Kirk in Edinburgh.

Never tried this before let's see how it goes -

Robin Hall - The Bonnie Earl O' Moray.mp3

Wow - success. Another skill acquired.

As for ampersand - to me this smells of 'fake definition'. but I can find nothing to support my thoughts. Must be right then? However when Wikipedia has to go back to the year 1011 for a written example, and doesn't mention the 'and per se' thing, maybe It's best to be a bit sceptical.

[Stanley]

A bit of healthy scepticism is never out of place David..... The whole post baffles me! Perhaps it's too early in the morning.

[Stanley]

Why do we 'egg people on' when what we mean is urging action?

[chinatyke]

To egg on. To edge or urge on according to this source:
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/egg-on.html


What about "Off cumdens." I don't know if that is the correct spelling. Thought about that term whilst reading Sue's John Marriott thread but thought that the word misbegottens was more appropriate. Or does off-cumdens just refer to incoming people from outside the district?

[Tripps]

Or does off-cumdens just refer to incoming people from outside the district?

I think it does. In some places they are referred to as ' blow ins' .
What's that in Chinese, I'm guessing you would qualify.?

[chinatyke]

Or does off-cumdens just refer to incoming people from outside the district?

I think it does. In some places they are referred to as ' blow ins' .
What's that in Chinese, I'm guessing you would qualify.?

老外 laowai=slang for a foreigner, usually neutral but can be offensive as it means old outsider.
外国人 =waiguoren or foreigner (outside country person).
鬼佬=Gweilo or gwailou means ghost man because of our white faces. Sometimes offensive but widely used to mean Europeans especially by Cantonese speaking people.

See, now you know some Chinese! Whenever I hear someone calling me gweilo or laowai I just turn to them, smile and say hello in Chinese. Invariably I get a smile or laugh in return; mostly they are nice friendly people here and not given to being offensive.

Is 'off-cumdens' ever used to describe love-children?

[PanBiker]

I have always understood "off-cumdens" to be anyone from outside of the area. Not like me, I am pure, being born in the front room not a quarter mile from where I am currently sitting.

[Tripps]

See, now you know some Chinese!

I knew that already - was in Singapore for few years. Also Kung hee fat choy, and ang pow.
That's it though.

[PanBiker]

Not me Guv, honest, it was that Chinese Tyke bloke.

[Tripps]

I know that - but I'm pleading not guilty. Just highligted, then pressed the inverted comma symbol as usual. I'm having a bad couple of days with matters digital.

[Stanley]

I've always associated offcumden with 'not born here'. Another word for love-child was by-blow but if you were posh you added 'fitz.....' to the family name.
Why do we talk about people 'swotting' for exams?