DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Stanley]

Quite right David but the tautological phrase using 'worst' has become common usage these days. 'Least worse' would be OK I think.

[Tizer]

I've just read in a history book that `slut' had a different meaning in past centuries. No sexual connotation as now, instead it was used to refer to a woman who got dirty in her work, such as a lower servant, and often had a caring or friendly tone to it. Samuel Pepys said he had `an admirable slut for a maidservant'.

[Stanley]

I must be old fashioned Tiz, I still use it with that meaning.....
I remember going into a friends house once, there was a large occasional table in the hall. As she passed it she threw her long skirt over it to remove the dust and said "I'm a slut at heart really!" She was using exactly the archaic meaning!

[Tizer]

That history book I mentioned is all about Christmas and it's mind-boggling to see all the origins and derivations of Christmas-related words and activities. Here's just one German word that's made it's way elsewhere in various forms: Belsnickel
(The first para of that Wiki page provides another word new to me: hypocorism)

[Stanley]

Hypocorism..... I have been resisting posting any of the obscure words that re-reading of 'A History of Christianity' has thrown up! It looks as though theologians over the centuries have had to manufacture new words to describe each of them and it is bewildering.

[chinatyke]

Outshut kitchen. Stanley used this phrase in another posting and I had to look it up. I've never heard that kind of building being called anything other than an outhouse. Also known as a catslide, another new name to me.

[Cathy]

Lately I've been hearing young children and young teenagers use the phrase 'very fun', as in It was very fun - It doesn't sound right. Something is great fun or a lot of fun, not very fun. I imagine their Teachers are not happy.

[Stanley]

The use of the word 'very' in inappropriate places is cropping up all over the place. Very similar to the misuse of 'well' as in well good etc.

[Tizer]

Also people saying `I'm good' when they mean `I'm OK' or `I agree'.

China, to me a catslide is a sloping roofed extension on the side of a house where the roof is a continuation of the main house roof. if the outer side is open, e.g. entry for tractor or wagon, then it was a linhay.

[PanBiker]

OK, where does that come from?

[Tizer]

`This is a lean-to shed with an open front. It’s mainly an English West Country word, from the counties of Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall. However, it has also been recorded in Northern Ireland and Northumberland, which suggests it derives from an ancient English word once more widely distributed. The Oxford English Dictionary tentatively suggests the Old English hlinian, to lean. A related West Country word, mowhay, means a stack-yard or other enclosure. A mow is a heap of some item, usually a useful crop such as hay, wheat, or barley (it seems to be related to words in Swedish and Norwegian but is otherwise obscure in origin). The second element is from Old English and means an enclosed space (it derives from the same root as hedge, which could at one time mean any enclosing barrier, not necessarily a row of bushes or small trees). So a linhay is a leaning enclosed space....'
Full article here: LINK

[PanBiker]

Interesting Tiz but I was referring to the short form representative word "OK". What does it actually stand for and where do we get it from?

[Stanley]

OK..... Have a look at THIS Ian and then take your pick!
China, I missed that post about outshut. It's a term used for an extension added to a building and is commonly used in describing vernacular architecture.

[PanBiker]

So best guess on OK is a spelling mistake, sounds about right.

[Tripps]

I got my explanation from a bottle of brown sauce which had the same name OK sauce. Not made any more but I think it said it was a corruption of all correct.

I liked Plaque's use of the phrase 'Lincoln odds' elsewhere. I know what he means but I doubt many more will. I guess in 20 - 30 years time no one will.

I noted octogenarian seat blocker Dennis Skinner MP used the phrase - 'he didn't know if he was on this earth or Fullers' in Parliament recently. I liked it.

[Stanley]

If my memory serves me correctly I used to pass the disused racecourse at Lincoln occasionally. If I am right it was just a spectator's stand stood on an expanse of grass. Did they move it to Doncaster when the course closed in the 1960s?

[plaques]

Lincoln Odds. I'm not quite sure where this term originated from. It was something my dad used although he was a non-gambler. His father, born 1858, was a kettle of fish and could probably remember the 2 mile Lincoln races. The term was probably re-enforced by the fact that Abraham Lincoln was initially a 'Dark Horse' ie: very long odds candidate when he first started running for Presidency. Any ideas Tripps.

[Tripps]

I take it to mean big odds.

The race - now at Doncaster - is run on the opening day of the flat season, is a very competitive and valuable handicap, and since traditionally there was no turf flat racing since the previous November, there was not a lot of recent form available. (This may have changed in recent years due to the increased popularity of 'All Weather' racing). Consequently there is not likely to be a heavily backed favourite.

As a big fan of Occam's razor - I'd dismiss any connection with Abe Lincoln.

[Tripps]

Here's a little gem -

Yorkshire Dictionary

I've only had a quick look, but there seems to be hours of innocent fun to be had. I could expand on 'bait' (not just food for horses), and 'back end' (also means Autumn/end of year).

I'll be back . . . .
PS.
I never knew this -
Treacle
This word derives ultimately from Greek but it was brought here by the Normans. Originally, it was the name given to a salve which was used as an antidote to poison and apparently made up of spices and drugs, in which sense it is on record in England from 1340 (OED).
Treacler
An apothecary, one who gave his patients ‘treacle’.

Now the jackpot - this confirms what I've seen occasionally elsewhere -
Tripherd - A 'trip' was a small flock of animals, especially goats and sheep, and Bolton Priory records contain several references to the animals and the related occupation.

[Stanley]

'Neatherd' was one who prevented deer straying from the Royal Forest and is said to be the origin of the name Nutter. Shepherd as a name origin is obvious, I can't think of anything derived from tripherd.

[Tripps]

I can't think of anything derived from tripherd.

Try harder - I can.

[Tizer]

Trippier!

[Stanley]

Well..... It's always a possibility of course but the Oxford Dictionary of Surnames favours either derived from Tripe Dresser and dealer or the ME 'Trippere', a dancer. There is also a suggestion that it could refer back to the old French 'tripot', an evil trick.
Then, digging further....

This surname is derived from an occupation. 'a tripherd,' a goatherd, Yorkshire and Lancashire. 'Trip, a flock of sheep, a herd of swine or goats' (Halliwell).
'Item, in pane pro triphyrdes sarculant indent,' 1305: Whitaker's Craven.
'Item pro geldherds, pro tripherds,' 1317: ibid.
The editor adds, 'Trip is a herd of goats, and has given origin to the surname yet remaining in Lancashire, Tripyer'; compare Tupper for Tupherd.
Walter Tripper, 1379: Poll Tax of Yorkshire.
Willelmus Tripper, 1379: ibid.
A Mrs. Trippier let lodgings at Seascale, Cumberland (1887).
[— A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames, written: 1872-1896 by Charles Wareing Endell Bardsley]

Here's a bit of bragging for you.... I have checked in my Latin Version of the Bolton Priory Compotus and the Whitaker reference is correct.

(English)1 = Tripp (q.v.) + the English agential suff. -er- 2 for Tripherd, q.v.
(Anglo-French) the common French Trip(p)ier= 1 Tripe-Dealer [French tripier, from tripe, tripe (of Celtic orig.) + the agential suff. -ier] Tripier.—Celui qui vend en détail les issues des animaux tués à la boucherie.— Littré, Dict., ed. 1889.
2 Velveteen Maker or Dealer [from French tripe, imitation velvet, velveteen] Wallerand Colbert, trippier de velours (1570).—Godefroy.
[— Surnames of the United Kingdom (1912) by Henry Harrison]

[Tizer]

I like the thought that Tripps might be descended from a dancing tripe dresser!

[Tripps]

I like the thought that Tripps might be descended from a dancing tripe dresser!

Thanks for that. i have most of what you quote, but it's nice to have it confirmed. I read the 'dancing' connection in a book in the Central Library in Manchester when I was at school, but I've never seen any reference to it since. Sounds possible. The gift hasn't been passed to me though.

I tried to make a list of everyone who ever had the name - and it's extensive, but not complete. I know it is not a common name, and I wondered whether a first name, date and place of birth, would be enough to separate them all. I found that it almost is, and that there are of course a lot of variations in spelling.

I decided that there was probably more than one derivation. It is definitely found in France, and I think the tripe connection is valid there, but I think the English version is more likely to be from the goat herds. There is some sign that French came to England, but not a lot. I get Huguenots mentioned a lot, but can't work out why they should all go to Rossendale area.