FORGOTTEN CORNERS

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 02 Jun 2019, 04:07

In 2000 I gave a lecture at Carleton College (Two days after 9/11). Martha arranged it and gave it a title, "Oral History. Sound evidence or folk myth" which I think is brilliant because it summarised my argument perfectly which was that we should never discount the value of the Folk Memory.

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Even the myths and legends always have a kernel of truth in them. This distrust of memory is at the root of why the young tend to ignore the old and do so even more these days with the overload of data coming in all the time. It is a Forgotten Corner and I realised this when I was dong the LTP interviews. The most surprising facts emerged and whilst I was sometimes dubious at the time they always turned out to have truth embedded in them. A deliberate attempt to mislead is always shown up by other evidence and conversely, even the most outrageous statement was confirmed later to some degree. The origin of the name Castle Vies for the row of houses on Manchester Road is a case in point. We know now that it's almost certain there was a Roman military structure across the way from the site.
When I was interviewing Harold Thornton the name 'Sons of Gwalia. came up and an association with the US President Hoover. This threw me because it came out of left field when we were talking about Carleton in the 1920s. When I dug into it I found THIS and uncovered the fact that there was indeed a connection. A perfect example of a forgotten corner that was there all the time buried in the folk memory.
So, the message is never discount oral evidence, the truth is out there!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Big Kev » 02 Jun 2019, 18:42

Stanley wrote:
24 May 2019, 06:02
Maz, If that is the case how come people are paying up to £70,000 for them? Those prices are for houses in Hill Street with no yards, spaces or anything but street parking. People seem to value an affordable roof over their heads more than frills.
There has been a significant jump in house prices in Barlick, the cheapest currently on the market is a one bedroom on Hill Street it's just short of £58k
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... 49757.html
Mine is being marketed at £5k under the agent's valuation for, hopefully, a quick sale. It's been on for a week so far, there have been a couple of 'sniffs' but no offer yet :-)
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Marilyn » 02 Jun 2019, 22:56

Housing close to a supermarket will always be first option for the elderly or frail, Stanley.
I'm sure that if your Cathedral of Choice was to "up sticks", the houses around there would not be quite as attractive and prices would drop as a result.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 03 Jun 2019, 02:16

Maz, you're clutching at straws. How about a town centre only 100yds further away? Kev is right, house prices in Barlick are going up while some towns and cities are stagnant or falling slightly.

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Dogs of Devon Feb 1st 1930. Barlick photographer. Dogs of Devon or Foiled Again was an operetta popular with local societies.
In the days when the only home entertainment was a primitive radio people made their own entertainment. Barlick in the 1930s had amateur dramatic societies, orchestras and almost every house had a musical instrument. We had cinemas, theatres and choral societies, even roller skating was popular. This wasn't peculiar to Barlick, when I was a lad my mother took me to wonderful performances of oratorios in local churches and chapels and we had world famous soloists like Katherine Ferrier. Even political meetings were well attended.

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Len Dole at Nelson Labour Gala in 1978.

Today you can watch the world from your sofa or bedroom. No wonder activities like this have faded,
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 04 Jun 2019, 05:35

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Old pic of Elslack Brow Cottage. Note the phantom on the doorstep, very long exposure and he must have popped out to see what was going on.
This road led up onto the moor that goes over to Cononley. It also passes Smearber Farm which was where Harrison Brothers haulage business was based and of course I worked for them in the 1960s so I knew this road well. I've always wondered what the origin of 'Smearber' was. The EPNS gives this rather unconvincing origin "From 'Smearbro' (1848) probably 'hill producing butter' (That is, one with rich pasture) Verb 'smeoru', beorg. I suppose that's as good as any.
Here are some snippets I have found.... 1318/1320 Godfrey de Altaripa was licensed to 'kernel and embattle' his house in Elslack. In the 18th century Elslack was owned by the Lane-Fox family by marriage and it seems they were still in possession in 1872. Any relation to the Baroness Martha Lane Fox? (LINK)
In my time, in the 1960s a major landowner in the village was J J Duckworth a retired cotton manufacturer. I met him one night at the Tempest Arms when he asked me to help him get over the low step at the entrance. He told me he was a very rich man but would give it all to be able to step inside like I did. I've never forgotten that.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 05 Jun 2019, 03:45

Today's forgotten corner is not actually Barlick related but is worth remembering. It's triggered by the current concentration on 'D' Day and the final phases of WW2.
In the war my dad's works, GGA in Audenshaw stopped making gas cookers and went over to war production. They made many things from simple Mills Bombs to Landing Craft Minor for use in the landings.

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A landing craft leaving the Audenshaw works in 1943 after 'launching'.

One of the things they made a lot of was the casing for the big RAF marker flares used by the Pathfinders for marking targets. The first problem they hit was that the welding process took so much power it dimmed all the lights in the district. A minor subsidiary problem was the necessity to thoroughly clean the inside of the case after welding. My dad found a solution, he took mother's Hoover vacuum cleaner to work and they used that! My mother never really forgave him and she didn't get a replacement until 1946.
I can remember them also making the casings for bombs and late in the war, projectiles for Squid and Hedgehog which were advanced replacements for depth charges used in the later stages of the Battle of The Atlantic. These weapons were a major factor in the eventual defeat of the U Boats. I used to go to GGA with my dad on Saturday mornings and I remember him telling me I shouldn't say anything about this to anyone as they were secret!
We forget now how the war affected everything. If anyone had said that shipbuilding would be a trade in Manchester before the war they would have been laughed at!

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My Father steering LCM7006 on trials on the Manchester Ship Canal on the way to Ellesmere Port. The bearded naval officer on the stern is Charlie Warren who later entered the ministry and finished up as Suffragan Bishop of Tasmania. This would be in 1944. This was a day off for everyone and I went on one such trip but not this one.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 06 Jun 2019, 05:22

Apart from Rover and later Rolls I don't know of any specific war production by the textile industry in Barlick but if you go to the LTP and look at Horace Thornton's evidence he talks about working at Broughton Road Shed in Skipton where they wove a lot of parachute material to very high standards. One of the surprising results that emerged from the War Office contract was that the inspectors checking quality pointed out to the management that they were underpaying the weavers and wages went up!

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This is a 'Queen Mary Trailer' and Bedford power unit. They were used by the RAF for the transport of aircraft bodies and wings but also engines so they became frequent visitors to Barlick and were at that time the biggest road vehicles we had ever seen.
What is also forgotten is that we had an influx of workers from Coventry after the air raids of November 1940 which was when the Rover Company moved its engine repair and other operations up to the shadow factories already prepared by the Ministry of Aircraft Production for just this eventuality. They all had to be found lodgings in the town. The Vicarage was taken over as hostel and later what is now the Rolls Leisure Centre was built primarily as a hostel for female workers. Later in 1942 Rolls Royce took over at Bankfield because that was where the development of the new jet engines was happening. This was of course the start of the town's association with Rolls which, although it is tapering off now from the peak, is still an important employer in the town.
I have often commented that the steam weaving industry that built the town had a life of approximately 100 years. The Aerospace industry has been here for 79 years and counting. Will it reach the century mark?
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 07 Jun 2019, 04:03

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Some of the most striking buildings in Barlick are, and have been, the chapels. The New Ship in Walmsgate is a good example and incidentally has a very fine organ. It's always struck me that the thing about the chapels is that they are mostly in the middle of the town. We have lost some fine examples over the years, the car park in Station Road was a chapel but now is just an ugly gap.

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I have very good memories of the Inghamite Chapel at Salterforth because in the 1970s Margaret Sharples persuaded me to go with her down there as they were putting on a DIY Messiah, anyone could turn up and sing. It was almost 30 years since I had sung in a choir and I was a bit lost because then I was a treble but in the 1970s I didn't know what I was! I started in the Tenors but had to do a quick shuffle in the first rehearsal when I found I was actually a baritone. The conductor buttonholed me at one point and asked where I had learned to sing the runs correctly, he had noticed! I told him about my early years in the choir and going to oratorios with my mother in Stockport. It was a most satisfactory experience and the public performance was packed and went very well.
I impressed them no end by taking my own Novello version of the score..... (One-upmanship!)
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 08 Jun 2019, 03:31

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I tell you often about my mother taking me to local performances of oratorios. Here's her much worn copy of the score of Messiah. It belonged originally to her mother and god knows how many times it has been taken to rehearsals and performances. You can guess how much of an impression it made at the Inghamites!
The darker green copy is mother's score of Judas Maccabeus which was another oft performed work. It wouldn't surprise me if that performance in Salterforth 41 years ago was the last time a complete Messiah was sung in Barlick. It must qualify as a forgotten Corner.

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I was told that this is a pic of the old Inghamite Chapel at Salterforth. The present one was built by Briggs and Duxbury's in 1931 and if you read Harold Duxbury's evidence in the LTP it was his first job as Clerk of Works on a bigger building. He talks about inspecting the loads of dressed stone for quality, all brought down from the quarries on Salterforth Lane. The Inghamites must have been well attended then if they could afford to build a new chapel. Can anyone tell me if it was built on the site of the old one or is that building a survivor?
My assumption is that the old one was demolished because they wouldn't want to move the graveyard.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Wendyf » 08 Jun 2019, 06:06

Yes it was built on the same site. We discussed it a couple of years back.

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=13228&p=108526&hil ... te#p108526

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 08 Jun 2019, 06:17

Thanks Wendy, I had forgotten..... Forgive me!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Wendyf » 08 Jun 2019, 12:15

Forgiven. :biggrin2:
Here is another photo of the new chapel from the EDLHS Archive.

Image

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by plaques » 08 Jun 2019, 16:24

And here is one from my archive.

.Image

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Wendyf » 08 Jun 2019, 16:57

:good:

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 09 Jun 2019, 02:25

That pic must be quite early, before they added the funny extension. Good one.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 10 Jun 2019, 05:59

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Home fed, dry cure bacon and ham hung in the kitchen at Little Stainton in 1977. If you have a look at Daniel Meadow's site you'll find a picture story about the killing of the pigs, I introduced him to Cyril Richardson.
I also experienced the annual pig killing at Harrod's farm when I was down there. A pig or pigs were selected for the house and specially fed on milk and Barley meal during the year until they reached a weight of anything between twenty and forty score. A 'score' was the term for pig weight and was 20lbs. The meat was clean and beautiful, like us, pigs are what they eat.
Every district had a travelling butcher who would come on the day with his captive bolt pistol for slaughtering and his knives for cutting the throat after stunning to bleed the pig. The killing was done on a special heavy trestle. At Harrod's the bristles on the skin were taken off immediately after bleeding by laying the carcass on a bed of clean wheat straw covering it with more straw and firing it (Only clean wheat straw was used). Once one side was done it was rolled over and the other side treated the same and then it was scrubbed and after gutting was hung up overnight. The only difference at Cyril's was that the bristles were scraped off using a lot of scalding hot water.
In both cases the butcher came back the following day and jointed the carcass after the meat had set.
Everything was used apart from the tail and the squeal. Some cuts were eaten fresh and I can tell you that spare rib from a freshly killed pig or its liver were beautiful! It was the usual practice to give spare rib to neighbours and when they killed a pig they returned the favour.
I suppose this practice is illegal now but one great thing in its favour was the fact that the pigs were not transported long distances to slaughter. When I was cattle driving in Scotland one firm had a regular contract to transport large numbers of live pigs to London and I always thought it was a cruel trade, not because of any mis-treatment by the drivers but simply the fact of the long journey.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Whyperion » 10 Jun 2019, 08:58

Swan Kettle, I suppose I could have repaired mums one - london scale and it started leaking around the plug joint.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 11 Jun 2019, 04:03

I often wonder as I walk round Barlick how much of the original services infrastructure remains in use. Balfour Beatty did a big job on the water mains a few years ago, lining the old system but the original gas pipes and electric cables have never received any attention. The old gas pipes were galvanised iron pipe and the electric cables were rubber insulated and cased in steel armour. They must have used good materials because the original mains and connections are 100 years old and still in service. But we have to ask the question, how much longer can they last? Eventually the customer will have to pay for replacement. Call me a pessimist but I'm realistic, at some point a decision will have to be made. It could be a bit of treat in store!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 12 Jun 2019, 03:56

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King Hill on Letcliffe mid-winter 2001. At this time of year (Despite the cold spell!) it's hard to remember the depths of winter when it was going dark at 15:00 and not light again until 09:00 the following morning and we had snow. It makes even a typical Barlick summer feel better! Best to remember this at this time of year even if the weather is dull and wet like today. It will still be light tonight almost 8 hours later than it was then.
(Always look on the bright side of life....)
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 13 Jun 2019, 03:18

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I did this pic in Barlick in 1980 but can't remember where it is.

In Machiavelli's 'The Prince' there is a line; "Every change leaves a toothing stone for the next. We have quite a few examples in Barlick because development of new houses stopped suddenly in 1914 with the outbreak if the Great War and never restarted. This is a good example of such a cessation, the toothing stones to tie in the fabric of the next house to be built were left there ready for a restart and the fireplaces and flues for the next house are already in place. Look at the size of the lower right hand one. This was the kitchen and was big enough to accept a cast iron cooking range.

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Here's another good example on Rainhall Road. If you keep your eyes open you can find others in the town. One more example of the stones telling us something about our history. The moral is keep your eyes open ! Don't look, try to cultivate the habit of observing, it can be so rewarding.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Wendyf » 13 Jun 2019, 06:08

It's Klondike Stanley, coming into Salterforth from Earby.

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 13 Jun 2019, 06:28

Thanks Wendy, I have adjusted the file name!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 14 Jun 2019, 03:53

My US visitors were a great success. We did nothing but cover forgotten corners of the 80s for far too long! That's why I am late up and brief this morning.....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 15 Jun 2019, 03:48

Today's forgotten corner might interest Kev..... My friend Larry has regressed now he is retired, he has always been a fine photographer and still pursues his hobby taking advantage of the latest digital technology but with a twist. He converts his best images to negatives and prints them wet in his darkroom which is regressive enough but being a perfectionist he has got into making Platinum based archival prints. (LINK)
This is a very old process and very difficult and expensive to do but the results are unique and unlike normal silver prints are not known to degrade over time hence their use as archival prints. I realise this will bore many of you to tears but it is another forgotten corner and it's nice that some are eccentric enough to take the trouble.
Kev, Larry gave me two platinum prints and any advice or help you can give on framing them would be appreciated.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Big Kev » 15 Jun 2019, 08:34

That sounds interesting, I used to enjoy wet processing.

With regard to the framing, have a chat with Jamie in Make a Connection on Newtown.
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