CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING

[chinatyke]

I said that the reduction is insignificant. For example a 10% reduction of emissions would lead to 1ppm less CO₂. The CO₂ levels vary naturally by about 6ppm during the year.

[Tripps]

climate change cartoon.jpg

[Stanley]

Cynical David, but still a current point of view I fear.

[chinatyke]

It's the same with religion, you can convince otherwise rational people that it is OK to believe a preposterous idea. We laugh at people worshipping stones in the past but it seems it is OK to have imaginary friends in the sky and support their cause with money. It's all about money! The science supports rising CO₂ levels and changing climate so why not levy a tax? Make hay whilst the sun shines!

[Stanley]

You are a cynic China....

[Stanley]

Have a look at THIS BBC report on the latest information we have on Himalayan Glaciers from recently de-classified spy satellites. We can now add these to our worry list! The importance of this is of course that they feed the great rivers of some of the most heavily populated parts of the world. The consequences of any lessening of flow could be enormous.

[Tizer]

I've been warning about this danger since I first joined OGFB and pointed out that something similar will one day happen to the Alps and result in severe winter floods and summer droughts in Europe. I've just done a search on OG for the words glaciers and floods and it brings up these from the last couple of years: LINK Warnings have been coming out for many years but still not enough is being done to counter climate change. There was an interesting series of episodes of a programme on Radio 4 recently that looked at the history of our knowledge of climate change. The most surprising part was how warnings were being made even as early as the 1930s and through the 1950s - and it was the coal industry itself that was doing the warning! That continued but eventually the recognition that something would have to be done caused a swing in the opposite direction. The vested interests of the coal industry then swung into action and the public didn't want to turn down the heating or the air conditioning when they hadn't been party to the warnings of climate change.

[Stanley]

That's still the biggest danger with the public. Will they accept less mobility and lower standards?
A cynic would say that the main reason why the energy companies etc, are swinging in behind decarbonising is because they can see enhanced profits in it. Perhaps that's the only way we can get change in a modern world, bribes..... If so, bring it on!
(And be more rigorous when someone comes up with snake-oil arguments supposedly based on Green Principles. I'm thinking of something like Drax and Biomass..... Nothing but a cunning wheeze.)

[Tizer]

This is a good way of illustrating global warming..
`The chart that defines our warming world' LINK
`Is this the simplest way to show what is meant by global warming? The chart below organises all the countries of the world by region, time and temperature. The trend is unmistakeable. Each line of coloured pixels is the temperature record of an individual nation within its region, stacked one atop the other. Blues are cooler years; the reds are warmer. The far left is 1900; the far right is the present day...'
Here's the main graphic:

[Stanley]

And they are all uniformly progressive, no exceptions. Should be made into a logo.......

[Stanley]

See THIS BBC report about the hot weather expected in Europe in the last week. It looks as though some records could be broken with temperatures reaching perhaps 45C, temperatures associated more with the Out Back in Australia or Death Valley.
Another example of an extreme?

[Whyperion]

BBC I think were reporting on some uses of CO2 - from fizzy drinks - which is not exactly a closed sytem more just passing through. Adding to fly-ash from municipal incinerators (I hope they know what other products might be in there) to produce effectively artificial limestone blocks for buildings (useful as the CO2 is retained) , brewing industry, and some co-working with methane on heating and running some fertilizer operations from memory, there may be other useful uses, if they can take out the 5ppm excess worldwide on similar projects this should re-balance atmosphere.

[Stanley]

See THIS BBC report of the high temperatures being experienced in Alaska. There is general agreement that it is another example of the climate changing, these are record temperatures.

[Tizer]

People in the rich developed western countries have the privilege of being able to say they don't believe in climate change. People in the rest of the world have it thrust upon them...
`One climate crisis disaster happening every week, UN warns' Guardian

[Stanley]

A timely article. Reminds me of "A small country far away of which we know nothing". (I may have paraphrased that....) That had serious consequences as well. I always remember Harold Wilson making a comment about unemployment. He said that no matter how low the percentage level was, to the person unemployed it was 100%. The same principle applies to the consequences of global warming, You are quite right, the people affected haven't the luxury of doubt or ignoring it, it's not a statistic to them or a probability, it's real and present danger.

[Stanley]

Isn't it amazing how ephemeral news of sport and politics completely blanks out the biggest story in human history.

[Stanley]

See THIS BBC report on the latest research into global warming by teams of scientists at several institutions working together. It is possibly the strongest evidence yet refuting the deniers main argument that there have always been climate variations and the present one is no different. The researchers point out that there has been nothing on the scale and speed we are currently seeing in the last 2,000 years.

[Tizer]

Yes, and at the same time as we see the reports `Climate change: Current warming 'unparalleled' in 2,000 years' we also see this..
`Greta Thunberg speech: French MPs boycott teen ‘apocalypse guru’.
`...lawmakers from French parties, including the conservative Republicans and far-right National Rally, said they would shun her speech in the National Assembly. Urging his colleagues to boycott Ms Thunberg's speech, leadership candidate for The Republicans, Guillaume Larrive, wrote on Twitter: "We do not need gurus of the apocalypse." Other French legislators hurled insults at Ms Thunberg ahead of her speech, calling her a "prophetess in shorts" and the "Justin Bieber of ecology". Republicans MP Julien Aubert, who is also contending for his party's leadership, suggested Ms Thunberg should win a "Nobel Prize for Fear". Speaking to France 2 television, Jordan Bardella, an MEP for the National Rally, equated Ms Thunberg's campaigning efforts to a "dictatorship of perpetual emotion".

[Stanley]

The ignorant, like the poor, are always with us. Meanwhile they have their highest ever temperature and people are dying already because of it. Ostriches and sand spring to mind.....

[chinatyke]

Meanwhile they have their highest ever temperature and people are dying already because of it. Ostriches and sand spring to mind.....

We have those temperatures all the time and people don't die. It's the same when you get a millimetre of snow in England!

[PanBiker]

Cars are inherently a lot safer in the snow nowadays, predominantly being front wheel drive. Lot's of drivers don't have the experience though. I learned snow driving when I was a field service engineer and we used to get a lot more snow in the winters in the 70's and 80's. Rear wheel drive, snow tyres and mill weights over the back axle and a shovel. Not many places we couldn't get excepting some of the outlying farms. None of the back streets were cleared of course so you just got on with it. I still put a shovel in the boot in winter even with the minor snow falls we seem to get now.

[Stanley]

You're right Ian, snow driving is a lost art. Not made any better by 4WD as the owners assume they are bullet proof and get into trouble. Best snow motor I ever drove was the Lancia Fulvia. FWD, narrow tyres and no weight on the rear axle. I never got stuck in that. The Yellow Shed, a Ford FWD with a very heavy diesel engine and gearbox over the front axle was almost as good.
On a larger scale, the wagon and for wheel trailer was splendid in the snow because the trailer was always running in the tracks of the wagon and the harder you pulled the more weight was transferred to the driving axle because I had made sure the drawbar sloped up to the hook. I did some 'impossible' trips in that.

[Tizer]

We have those temperatures all the time and people don't die...

That's a daft statement, China, and you know it! You have those temperatures all the time and people do die, every day. But if you had lower temperatures fewer people would die early. It just doesn't show up because you `have those temperatures all the time'. Here the temperature swings widely and therefore we see rises and falls in number of deaths with changes in temperature.

This is worrying...
`Arctic wildfires: What's caused huge swathes of flames to spread?' LINK
This means a big loss of trees and peat, both of which store up CO2, and deposition of black heat-absorbing carbon on the pristine snow of the north. This could become a tipping point and start a runaway temperature rise. And what do the Russians say about it? `Russian authorities are not tackling the majority of the fires as they argue the cost would be bigger than the damage caused by the flames. "They do not threaten any settlements or the economy," the press service of the Krasnoyarsk Region forestry ministry told a Siberian news website.'

[Stanley]

Just one more example of how the eco-system is being changed by global warming. Add the decline of the perma frost in those regions which is releasing methane. Meanwhile we agonise about cows farting and feed them on seaweed. We are doomed as long as ignorant attitudes like that prevail.

[chinatyke]

That's a daft statement, China, and you know it!

I make them all the time!