Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Stanley]

LINK to the BBC report.
Why does 'elite sport' escape the net?

[plaques]

The Oxford vaccine is good news and rightly so Boris Johnson has identified a priority list of 13.9 million people with a target date of completion of mid-February.
These numbers and dates remind me of Alice in Wonderland (Lewis Carroll) or Charles Dodgson who was actually a mathematician quoting a problem....
If it took four men two hours to dig a hole four foot deep how long would it take 200 men? ..Of course you can't get 200 men round a hole of this size.

Back to Boris in Wonderland, he will need to vaccinate 2 million people a week to achieve the mid-February target. The problem now arises that the numbers are not fully large blocks of people that can be marched in and out using teams of healthcare workers to administer the vaccines but now include small numbers spread through the community. This will require a much larger army of vaccinators and a lot more co-ordination that went into the first Pfizer roll out. Good old Boris and Matt will sort it out.

[PanBiker]

We need large local venues, (schools maybe cos they are shut) to be pressed into service, need the staff but they could operate on a shift system and remain open 24 hours. Might stand a chance of hitting the target then. I personally wouldn't mind rocking up at 4am for a jab if it was offered.

[Wendyf]

Do people who have tested positive for Covid 19 in the past still get the vaccine?

[plaques]

From what I gather YES. The problem lies in the fact that they may have only suffered a mild does of covid and not built up any real immunity so after a short interval this immunity level would fade and they could develop a more severe covid illness.

[Gloria]

I got a text from nhs today telling me to contact our surgery to arrange a jab, took a while to get through, but I’m booked in Saturday morning.

[Big Kev]

I got a text from nhs today telling me to contact our surgery to arrange a jab, took a while to get through, but I’m booked in Saturday morning.

a young girl like you, how did you wangle that?

[Tripps]

This may be nonsense, and it is a vast task, but - I'm starting to think that a lot of the news about shortages of premises, and vaccinators etc is looking like a false spin trail to divert attention from the fact that sufficient Oxford Astrazeneca vaccine is not currently available?

I learn that large quantities are awaiting 'batch testing' which may take up to three weeks. A significant quote from Professor Fergusson of Imperial College, " this will not be an event, it will be a process".

I've just extended my time horizon.

PS I'll ask Mr Poet next door - when possible -he's a retired senior veterinary pharmaceuticals auditor. He'll know.

[Whyperion]

Someone mentioned on BBC I think about lack of bottles, France and Holland have been questioned on why (i think A-Z) the vaccinations were slow and not many, I think I can understand the numbers given the relatively late EU approval , though I had thought A-Z were speculatively building stocks so they were (tested?) and ready to go.

[Whyperion]

We need large local venues, (schools maybe cos they are shut) to be pressed into service, need the staff but they could operate on a shift system and remain open 24 hours. Might stand a chance of hitting the target then. I personally wouldn't mind rocking up at 4am for a jab if it was offered.

RR Social Site or is that out of effective commission for now ?

[Tizer]

PS I'll ask Mr Poet next door - when possible -he's a retired senior veterinary pharmaceuticals auditor. He'll know.

Put him in charge. He'd line people up between metal railings and have them shoved one at a time through a metal gate, a quick jab in the bum with vaccine, then out through the next gate. You might even get a bonus de-wormer shot at the same time. We could test it out first on Messrs Johnson, Hancock, Williamson et al.

[PanBiker]

Rolls Sports and Social Club is closed. Used to be our local venue for NHSBT Blood Donor sessions but has been off the rota for nearly 12 months. Plenty of other place in Barlick they could use. Civic Centre, Sports Hall, West Craven School, St Joseph's Parish Centre. Would need lots of staff though.

Apparently the government are making it problematic with a raft of paperwork to complete for extra volunteers to come forward. They are asking for certificates held and proof of qualifications and the like from retired doctors, nurses and clinicians. It's crazy when you think that ordinary Joe Soaps are shown how to inject themselves if they have certain medical conditions. We are not talking about accessing a specific vein to administer the vaccine. I reckon half an hours training could teach most intelligent people how to do it safely. Emergency situations demand emergency methods.

[Stanley]

The pharmacies have asked why they aren't being used as they are for the normal flu jab. Sounds like a valid question to me.
Not sure if that is the real reason David but on past performance I wouldn't rule it out. They are lining up a shortage of the glass vials for a possible excuse as well.

[plaques]

Not wishing to take the punch bowl away just as the party gets going. Two million people being vaccinated each week would be a fantastic achievement mainly thanks to the NHS workers and volunteers who are doing their best to meet this target. Unfortunately looking ahead a little further if we are to protecting the whole population, say 50 million, it would take about 6 months at this rate but then comes an interim problem after 12 weeks the number will need to double to 4 million a week with the last person getting their double dose around October. Then we start again plus the influenza vaccinations as well.
What's the bet we outsource it with Dido Harding in charge.

[Stanley]

Or outsource it to one of the bum outfits already handling probation or disability assessments.
Why not treat the Oxford Virus exactly like an annual flu jab. We have all the structure in place for that. Any extra resource in the shape of hubs etc. would speed things up. Or is that too simple for these buggers to understand?

[Tizer]

Apparently the government are making it problematic with a raft of paperwork to complete for extra volunteers to come forward. They are asking for certificates held and proof of qualifications and the like from retired doctors, nurses and clinicians.

Have look back at my 3rd Jan post in this thread. It shows the `checklist to become an NHS vaccinator' which consists of about 18 different documents stating what you need to be vetted for. Of course many well qualified people have gone though this process and never had a reply, and others have given up trying.

[Big Kev]

Screenshot_20210107-132904_Metal Pro.jpg

[Whyperion]

Delay in timespan seems a risk, it seems the south africa variation is 10 times better at evading existing anti-bodies. Expect to see a Hancock U turn probably thursday next week. All EU countries under-ordered initial vaccine batches probably understandable to show a little caution it has mainly been the Kent and South African variations that have showed the vaccine race is falling behind rather than getting ahead as might have been expected.

It is probably worth considering why there are re-infections within a year , and also why having tested positive a vaccine jab will still be useful, Re-infections appear to be in the main from a variation (major or minor) in the virus compared to an intial infection. Also if the inital infection was 'mild' it may not have generated enough anti-bodies ( vaccines are super boosted in viral (deactivated) load) to be effective for a future, mainly again variant. infection. I always thought the UK science advisors mentioning if a virus was easier to transmit it was less deadly in its effects as being nonsense (in the absence of specific analysis of outcomes) , and it looks like I was correct in that thought.

So, if the worse case is that vaccines could be (unless modified and perpetual) ineffective it is going to be an annual lottery short of caving up and getting ones tesco deliveries as to whom is going to survive either rampant virus or its other medical or social side effects (like the NHS running out of qualified and experienced staff) repeat for western countries, repeat and mulitply for the emerging economies , China can probably stick up international barriers and tough it out. Take comfort that we live in interesting times.

[Whyperion]

Back to Care Homes
Reported Today
"A care home in East Sussex has been devastated by Covid, losing half of all its residents to the disease over Christmas, fuelling fears the new, more transmissible virus variant sweeping the south-east of England is beginning to breach homes’ defences.

Thirteen of 27 residents at Edendale Lodge care home in Crowhurst had died with confirmed or suspected Covid since 13 December, said the home operator’s managing director, Adam Hutchison, who also runs care homes in Kent.

More than a third of the staff also tested positive during the outbreak in which residents died on Christmas Eve and Boxing Day."


While there might be some specifics to the people being cared for , I would like to see, even with the high numbers how really within community vs care home transmission and death really is. That new, or better ways, need to be found for how the vulnerable are cared for, and homed is needed.

I think if things dont change in 14 days even Boris will start panicing.

[Tripps]

The Health Secretary Matt Hancock seems to have almost escaped consequence free from his widely publicised visit, and photo opportunity today, at a GP surgery giving the first Astra Zeneca vaccine injections.

The main problem seems to be that they don't at the time of his visit, actually have any vaccines to give. It is said they will arrive tomorrow - hopefully.

[Big Kev]

The Health Secretary Matt Hancock seems to have almost escaped consequence free from his widely publicised visit, and photo opportunity today, at a GP surgery giving the first Astra Zeneca vaccine injections.

The main problem seems to be that they don't at the time of his visit, actually have any vaccines to give. It is said they will arrive tomorrow - hopefully.

You couldn't make it up...

[Stanley]

Doesn't surprise me at all. Truth is an encumbrance on the march these days.

I am ignoring all the 'news' and strictly shielding. Susan tells me she is getting three tests a week now, two the half hour jobs but one the one that has to be sent to the lab. They are expecting a surge of cases. As soon as there is a local jab I shall have it but until then I shall do as I am told, stay at home, avoid others and no travel.

[Tizer]

I note the news this morning that `All international passengers will soon have to test negative for Covid-19 before travelling to the UK. People arriving by plane, train or boat, including UK nationals, will have to take a test up to 72 hours before leaving the country they are in.' Letting people travel into the UK without proper testing has troubled me since back in Spring when the government finally started telling them to self-isolate on entering the UK. I'm sure there would have been many who ignored that instruction. I know that the tests are not as reliable as we would wish and false negatives would allow infected people to enter and mingle - the government has been using that argument ever since and relying on self-isolation. But there is something they could have done from the beginning. Demand that every traveller gets a negative test result immediately before travelling from their original location and another negative test result immediately on arrival in the UK. This double testing, by different testers in different locations, would dramatically reduce the likelihood of infected individuals getting through. In theory at least, a test with a 10% false negative rate would mean the probability of both tests being false would reduce to 1%.

[plaques]

Telephone call from Colne Health Centre to say that the second covid vaccination has been cancelled until these series can be arranged again. No problem for us at least we have had some protection. Becoming professional recluses but if it saves lives what's the beef?

On travel we all tend to give air travel priority of thought but think about the Channel tunnel and cargo ships and it becomes a massive exercise in testing and isolation control. This would cut across several government ministries which looking at their present performance doesn't instill any confidence that they know what they are doing.

[Tizer]

There was a long discussion about the vaccination scheduling on Radio 4 `Inside Science' yesterday with two experts. I found it complicated and too much to take in - it should have been kept shorter. But I got two take away messages at the end. One, the vaccine development and manufacture has been fantastic and we can be proud of it and we should be very wary of b*ggering it all up by changing schedules at the last minute with insufficient evidence. Two, if we change the scheduling we must monitor the vaccinated individuals carefully, in real time, not just in retrospect, so we can intervene if anything seems to going wrong. I hope the government understands this.