New Primary School

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Tardis
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Re: New Primary School

Post by Tardis » 05 Nov 2012, 14:51

Yes, the plans are on the West Craven Area meeting for tomorrow.

I see the objection is somewhat tenuous, since the actual grounds for objection are actually covered off in the proposal, and with the actual provision of the extra all weather pitches which might be usuable by the sports centre outside of school hours it might provide another benefit for the town. Who allowed facilities to be built at the other end of West Craven School where the town can not use them?

I can't see how it can be objected to on the grounds that it is open space when the planning document actually says that it is not open space

Maybe just like Laneshaw Bridge's brand new school which opened today despite political opposition, the Lib Dems are objecting for some other reason rather than getting provision of a news school for Barnoldswick.

Politics should have nothing to do with educating children, they should be locally run and effectively controlled by those who's children pass through the doors for effective management of results.

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Re: New Primary School

Post by Whyperion » 05 Nov 2012, 17:09

Still cannot completely understand why we have both area committees and town councils , nearly covering the same area. Surely to provide suitable localism only one is needed , to make representations ( with powers ? ) on areas of interest to the main Pendle council.

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Re: New Primary School

Post by David Whipp » 07 Nov 2012, 07:58

Quick precis of area committee deliberations.

County application is a shambles. Enquiries reveal application invalid as LCC has included land not in their ownership in their planning app...

With the exception of one member, who spoke - but didn't vote - against the resolution, committee agreed to object to the application on the following basis:

Loss of school playing fields & open space contrary to national and local planning policy.

Bottleneck access off Kelbrook Road and across car park.

School proposed to be built over protected line of cycle way.

Proposed security fencing will block established footpaths.

Inadequate arrangements for pedestrian access (including ludicrous LCC proposal to construct a zebra on Kelbrook Road this year - only to rip it out and replace with a Toucan (or similar) next year!)

Proposed brick building out of keeping with surrounding stone built (or art stone) property.

Loss of car parking (and consequent problems) for sports centre.

In addition, area committee agreed to request an urgent meeting with county to discuss above matters together with possibility of using existing Church School site for public open space.

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Re: New Primary School

Post by Tardis » 07 Nov 2012, 10:36

What a lot of hot political air last night

Basically, whatever the issues they will be regularised before the drawings have actually been completed. That goes for all the footpaths etc.

I note that the security fence will still remain, and I object to the fact that this mentality has taken over, when the wider community should be used to protect the children and the premises.

I am deeply alarmed that that the Lib Dems are pushing for more parking places to encourage the school run, when they are also running a low carbon project within the town. Very mixed messages, but I think that it will simply result in confusion about what trust.

The particular attack on a fellow cllr in a meeting was particularly unwarrented, highly political and very divisive. Bullying of the normal type, when really there needs to be someone who actually speaks up for the town.

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Re: New Primary School

Post by Tardis » 07 Nov 2012, 10:48

On the point about CHP, I refer you to the architect. A scouser, who I have already chatted to.

Pendle needs to think hard about retrofitting this type of technology to the sports hall when the fuel would mostly have to be imported anyway, and the spoil disposed of.

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Re: New Primary School

Post by David Whipp » 07 Nov 2012, 13:18

Tardis wrote:What a lot of hot political air last night
Funny, apart from an odd exception, the points made about the new school was about practical planning problems... The perspective from the blue box may be a little distorted?
Tardis wrote:Basically, whatever the issues they will be regularised before the drawings have actually been completed.
Not if the deficiencies and errors aren't highlighted and dealt with during the planning process!
Tardis wrote:I am deeply alarmed that that the Lib Dems are pushing for more parking places to encourage the school run
The existing parking provision at the sports centre isn't adequate. Users park willy nilly on Kelbrook Road at times. It a safe and workable access through the sports centre car park to a new school is achieved, it'll be at the cost of existing spaces. This issue has to be addressed - not ignored.

Apart from one councillor parroting his party's line, councillors of different political persuasions and none agreed that this issue has to be dealt with - it's not a 'Lib Dem' issue as Tardis would like to portray.

Locating the school in a position that would cut off existing walking routes to the high school and sports centre as well as the new school itself, will encourage more kids into cars.
Tardis wrote: really there needs to be someone who actually speaks up for the town.
With this issue (and others), it's what I try and do. I suspect that Tardys will always see it differently.

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Re: New Primary School

Post by Tardis » 07 Nov 2012, 15:45

I try to deal in actual fact, rather than political spin for advantage. I do not try to fill newspaper columns.

I do not need to choerograph before each meeting to brief, nor do I need to bully, nor have written quotes for things that people said they would do, or I'd be picking out bits from election leaflets. I will always be ready to laugh at your attempts at condescention.

The only way things will ever get done is if people form a pragmatic consensus

What I saw last night wasn't any of that and not for the first time.

I am allowed, under democratic process to believe that people have a right to decide for themselves rather than what someone declares is best for them and gets one individual the most column inches. I also accept that democratic process.

I really do wish that more folk actually went to these meetings with an open mind and saw the operate. The motives are so transparent, and diametrically opposed to the words that are used. You have been trained well, but not well enough.

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Re: New Primary School

Post by David Whipp » 07 Nov 2012, 16:59

Tardis wrote:I really do wish that more folk actually went to these meetings with an open mind
Agreed. I wish you went to the meetings with an open mind!

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Re: New Primary School

Post by Tardis » 08 Nov 2012, 11:20

David Whipp wrote:
Tardis wrote:I really do wish that more folk actually went to these meetings with an open mind
Agreed. I wish you went to the meetings with an open mind!
:laugh5:

Rich! My feedback tends to be as per performance. Like I laugh off your petty insults.

You are very transparent.

and can't even quote in full without making a political point :flaming:

Until you have something valid to add, I'm out of this debate

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Stanley
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Re: New Primary School

Post by Stanley » 09 Nov 2012, 05:48

"Until you have something valid to add, I'm out of this debate"
Good, it is getting too personal and can only lead to trouble.
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Re: New Primary School

Post by Whyperion » 09 Nov 2012, 15:19

I dont think there is anything which states one cannot make,under planning laws, a planning application in respect of land that you dont own or have an interest in

( though its possibly not wise to do so )

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Re: New Primary School

Post by David Whipp » 10 Nov 2012, 09:00

Whyperion is correct. You can apply for planning consent for land belonging to someone else.

You need to serve notice that you are doing so to the owner.

Another requirement is that any application is accompanied by an accurate plan showing the extent of the applicants ownership.

In the case of the new school, the county council have messed up in both cases.

They'll be able to regularise this, but it indicates a level of incompetence in such an organisation which is alarming.

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Re: New Primary School

Post by Stanley » 11 Nov 2012, 06:32

Another example of my constant gripe about levels of competence? One of the things that struck me as I enquired into the world of work was that there are certain jobs you have to get right, first time, every time. Think of steeplejacks, HGV drivers, undertakers and tenters of steam engines. My mate Daniel once wrote a small article about this in which he speculated that such jobs instil a passion for accuracy and certitude in actions. If you didn't get it right in many cases you were judged and sentenced immediately. Perhaps that's part of the problem with the planning process, incompetence can be hidden by obfuscation so there is very little incentive to get it right first time.
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Re: New Primary School

Post by David Whipp » 18 Feb 2014, 19:58

It's a while since we were discussing the issue of the planning permission for the new primary school to replace the existing Church School on York Street. Building work on the new school is proceeding apace. And work on the high school next door is coming on as well.

One of the contentious issues about the location of the new school was safe crossing facilities for children crossing Kelbrook Road. The county council refused to accept that their plan to put a single pedestrian crossing outside the garage was inadequate and gave themselves planning consent.

The leverage of the PBC owned access gave us the opportunity to negotiate improvements in the plans. One of the improvements is that two pedestrian crossings are being constructed, one by the Memorial Gardens, the other nearer the high school. Work is now underway on these crossings.

Another improvement is that parking for the sports centre in an evening will be provided on the high school site. A new access will be made into the sports centre from that side of the building.

A further concession by the county council was to acknowledge the footpaths across the field to the north of the new school site. A footpath is being built to link these footpaths through to the sports centre car park and new school entrance.

The county council has recently submitted a planning application to deal with the spoil from the construction of the school. The plans show an amphitheatre shaped mound beyond the gable end of the school, with other material being spread across the field north of the school site behind Clarence Street.

A concern about this is the effect it might have on the drainage in the area. There's been problems with property on Langsford Close, which is downstream, being flooded in the past. (As has further downstream Raikes Beck.)

An interesting point is that the county council has known that they'd have to deal with all this spoil from the outset; why has it taken the best part of a year since building began to come forward with a plan to deal with it?

An issue

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