SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

I envy you the space but I'm not going to follow you! If I need any more space I'll use a cupboard in the kitchen! But, at my age I've stopped collecting.....

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Quietly away I got the eccentric rod finished and installed with the valve rod set to the mid point. Lid back on temporarily and then on to the 1956 lathe for running in.

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Lovely to switch the lathe on and see the rods going up and down doing their thing! Too fast at 328rpm actually, the most a puffer engine would do in real life would be about 150rpm but that doesn't matter. Plenty of oil in the valves and eccentrics and the main bearings tightened down a shade tight so they are running in as well. I shall keep giving it a few minutes until we get round to fitting the main con rods. The idea is that when I get them done I'm sure that all the other bearings are running free. No squeaks or knocks, sounds lovely!

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Next engine brought in for shaving. I shall get this one to the stage the other is at and then start on the main con rods on the first while this one is on the lathe running in. We're getting there.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Big Kev »

Fascinating to see it being run in. Almost hypnotic. :rolleyes4:
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Wait till it has the main con-rods on! That's what makes proper engines so good to watch, they are mobile sculptures with all their bits hanging out, you can see what's happening.

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Got the first rod on the second engine made and installed, set to mid point and all is OK. I'll do the next rod today, run the first engine in a bit more and make Kev's bits for his lighting tripod. I'll give you a ring when they are done. Funny thing is the measurements are Imperial even though it was made in China.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Big Kev »

Stanley wrote:Got the first rod on the second engine made and installed, set to mid point and all is OK. I'll do the next rod today, run the first engine in a bit more and make Kev's bits for his lighting tripod. I'll give you a ring when they are done. Funny thing is the measurements are Imperial even though it was made in China.....
It's probably a copy of something from the US...
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Big Kev's bits interfered with engine building but I have got the last eccentric rod to the stage where all it needs is the slot cutting for the valve rod and fitting.

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Funny how you refine your techniques as you go along. I realised yesterday that with a bit of care the rod could be machined to a fit without taking it off the strap. I'll remember that when I'm doing the main rods!

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Not much point having a snapper on tap if you don't get him to do a pic!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Good day yesterday and I reached a straight edge.

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Last rod finished, fitted and adjusted to mid point. Slightly tighter than the first engine but OK.

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Ran the first engine for twenty minutes while I had a cup of tea. By the way, hand-held in available light, the stabilising gizmo in the lens is a goodie!

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Then a swap over and ran the second engine, tightening the main bearings down gradually until they were starting to warm up.
I shall have a tidy up and leave the shed alone today because I have a couple of articles to write for the BET. Next job will be serious crank bearings and main con-rods. We're getting there! Seriously considering buying a couple of 1/2" steam valves off the shelf....... But then again, I've never fitted steam valves, I consider them finished when they will run! We'll see....
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon »

Looks like you are getting on really well Stanley and all is looking good :grin:
I have not got much more done to the lathe as been doing other things but I have re welded the hinges on the alloy cover for the change gears as it was not closing because of previous bad repair, its alloy so needed T.I.G welded. I have also welded up a few holes that had been drilled in it and prepared it for painting.

The two holes above the clamps are not meant to be there so need welded up.

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This is the area after being welded and cleaned up.

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This shot shows the door removed from the hinges it had been welded on crooked in a past life and the cover would not stay shut.

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This shows the hinges after they are welded back into the right position, the cover now fits and stays closed , it still needs more sanding before primer.

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This is the cover after a good sanding some bits will need filler before its good enough to prime but I will get the whole cabinet to the same stage before putting primer on any of it.

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I wont have a chance to do anything else to the lathe till mid week next week now but hope to get ready to prime by the end of next week.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

I'm impressed. TIG welding not in my repertoire! Wrote one article yesterday, another today plus shopping.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Two articles written, all tasks done, into the shed today!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

I think I had a good day in the shed yesterday. I may descend into bleeding obvious mode again but remember that there may be someone out there needing to know all the basics which some of us can take for granted.

The task is to make the crank bearings and main connecting rods to the pistons. The first obvious fact is that I can't measure the length of the rods till I have made the bearings and can measure accurately so all I did on the rods was think about thickness and connection to the bearing. You need to have this in mind as you make the bearing otherwise you could finish up with not enough room in the foot of the rod for the connecting bolt heads, don't laugh, I have done this in my time! I started by looking at Mr Bahrett's design which is based on having CI castings for the body of the assembly with a small split bronze bush for the actual bearing surface. I don't have the castings so I shall make the entire bearing out of bronze thus doing away with the need for the bush. I decided that like his, and unlike the eccentric rods, the two bolts that hold the split bearing together will also be the fastenings for the rod. They will be nutted together dead tight so no problem there. Any subsequent adjustment to tighten the bearing will be done by relieving the faces and the bolts will still be tight. So, dead simple, two bronze blocks bored for the crank journal and held together by two 2BA bolts through both the bearing halves and the foot of the rod. One decision was that the bolt hole in the bottom half will be threaded and special bolts made, the effect of this will be that the bolt effectively becomes a stud, this will mean easier fitting and adjustment, no need to worry about the bolts being loose when you fit or tighten them.
You may remember that before I started on the eccentrics I cut some scrap brass for the bearings. When I came to look at them I found they weren't thick enough so I ditched them and started again with a new piece of brass bar. Incidentally, this is the bar I found at the back of a cupboard in the house when I moved in.

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It took about half an hour to get to this stage. The fag-packet drawing with all the measurements checked at least twice and a bar of brass.

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First job was to cut four blanks on the HM leaving some spare meat for machining.

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Four blanks ready for shaving. First job is to get a flat face on one side and then reduce to a shade over 7/16 thickness. The journals will take 1'2" but always leave a bit of room for the rods to float as they run. If you look at any full size engine you'll find the old fitters allowed this, it gives expansion room and the bearing faces last longer if there is some side play.

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A little tip. If you have a good machine vice it will have a dead flat face in the bottom of the jaw. Using an accurately squared packing piece means to get a true face. When you have tightened the workpiece, hit it with a dead blow until you can't move the packing piece underneath it. You will tell from the feel when it is dead flat. Then give it a final nip before cutting.

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Once you have a clean face, blue the edge and mark to 7/16" from the clean face. Cut the other face almost down to this mark (leave a little for finishing) and once you have done one you can cut the other faces without altering the cutting height. If you have done everything right they will be identical.

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Close of play. Four bearing blocks accurately milled for thickness with plenty of meat at the sides, top and bottom for finishing to size. The next job will be marking and drilling the bolt holes to 2BA tapping size straight through.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Nice productive couple of hours. More bleeding obvious lads, bear with me!

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I decided to get the blocks down to the right size allowing for the saw cut across the centre. Blue and mark up after making sure we are measuring from a finished edge.

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Surface plate and your best equipment for the measuring and marking. The vertical vernier is perfect.

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Take the meat off the end with the saw, quicker than the miller.

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Then mill the excess off at one cut to the exact size. The miller doesn't need adjusting once the first has been done because they are all the same size.

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Another way of getting exact marking if you are lucky enough to have a set of parallels.

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Close of play, the blocks marked for drilling right through 2BA tapping size. Can you see that the pop marks are midway between two parallel lines? My eyes aren't so good these days and I find it easier to get a correct location if I'm aiming for the mid point between two lines. I think you get a more accurate pop this way.
Good progress and no mistakes! Today we'll get a bit further with them....
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

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Started the day by setting the blocks up square and vertical in the VM and drilling all the holes right through at 4mm, 2BA tapping size.

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The top half of the blocks were drilled 3/16" clearance, then reversed and the bottom 1/8" opened as well so that the special bolts when made will not have to be relieved under the head. Than tap the 3/8" of tapping bore for the 2BA bolts. This means that in effect they will become studs.

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Number the blocks above and below the division so that the match can be preserved and then split them all along the pre-marked centre. Notice that one block is inserted at the back of the jaws so that the grip on the front block is dead parallel. Even with a good machine vise like this it makes a difference.

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Close of play. The two halves of each bearing nipped together with a 1" x 2BA bolt in each hole. This fastening will be all we need to hold the blocks while we bore and fit them to the crank journals. Once we have that done we can measure for the correct con-rod length.

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Bit of a clean up and mount the SC two jaw on the lathe. All ready for boring........
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Whyperion »

Nicely explained and the pictures really aid comprehension of the narrative.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Nice day. The object of the exercise is to bore all the crank bearings and fit them to the shafts. If you read the books on making engines you will find all sorts of sophisticated methods of boring and lapping to get a perfect mirror finish in the bores. Forget it! We aren't running a 1500 ton ship! Bore undersize with a drill and ream to a finish (or file if you have no reamers) a reasonable tight fit but easily spun round the journal will do fine. I must have been on form when I made the crankshafts because all the journals are a shade over 1/2" so a sharp 1/2" drill backed off for boring brass so it won't grab will do fine.

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Start with a centre drill, it gives a true start. The centre between the jaws depends on the self centering of the chuck, the other axis is governed by the split in the block. It doesn't matter if it's slightly out actually because the bearing finds its own centre when it is on the journal.

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Then poke a 3/16" drill through for a pilot.

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Next drill 1/2", don't forget to back the drill off to give a neutral rake on its edge. If you don't it will almost certainly grab abd you'll have a mess!

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Touch the edge of the bore with a countersink. This makes sure that there is no binding in the root of the journal where there is a slight radius if you've made it right. Reverse the bearing using the countersink for a centre and relieve the other end of the bore as well.

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I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again. You can't have too many chucks! Saves no end of time if all you have to do is swap chucks for multiple operations. Grab them whenever you see them!

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A good way of cleaning the faces of the bearing up is to rub them on a flat file. As it happened the first bearing I attacked was one where I hadn't cleaned the inside faces of the crankshaft webs back as well as I might have done so a fair bit of meat had to come off the sides. I didn't muck about, did them on the side of the grinding wheel. On no account must you do this, you must suffer and sweat away with the file! (I've looked at the others and they are properly cleaned out.

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I had to poke a brand new 1'2" taper reamer through to get the size. Final adjustment with a round file and fitted so that it spins round easily on the journal even though there is minimum play.

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Nice!

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The next engine sat waiting for shaving. The rest of the bearings will be easier as there is more room between the webs. Getting exciting! My mind is already on the con rods.......
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Crashed on with the fitting of the other crank bearings.

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I started by poking the 1/2" reamer through the remaining three bearings. Easiest to do it on the lathe while the two jaw SC is still mounted.

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No big problems with the fitting but the lower pic shows what could have been a problem. Look at the left hand bearing. In this attitude it just fouls the face of the standard but I think that its attitude when connected to the cross-head will mean it is angled forward enough to give clearance. I never thought about this but it looks as though I have got away with it!

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The bearings are done and dusted, now we move to the next phase, making and fitting the con rods between the crank bearings and the cross-head. The first thing to do is to get a measurement between the centre of the pin in the cross-head and the top face of the bearing. First get the bearing to top dead centre then take the cylinder cover off and pop a washer 1/8" thick on top of the piston. Then put the cover back on and push the piston up against the cover. This gives 1/8" clearance between the piston and the cover at TDC. If I remember right, this means that there is the same clearance at the bottom!

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Make a 1/4" pin for the cross-head and put a 45 degree point on the end. Then measure the distance between the bearing face and the point. They all measured 2 13/16" except number one cylinder which was 3". Bit of a surprise so I measured it again, twice! It's right so the piston rod must be a bit shorter. Trust the measurements and on we go!
First job this morning is to design the con rod. Some careful measurement and decisions before we go any further. I've decided on the fastening for the pin in the cross-head. It's shapes and sizes now. Exciting stuff!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Started the day with a good clean up. I could hear Newton laughing at me...... Then some very careful measuring and re-checking. A getting-ready day!

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I finished up with a superior fag-packet drawing and pinned it up.

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Then a quick touch up of a milling cutter and installed it in the VM.

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Finished the morning by making the old machine bolt into a piece of 1 3/16" bright bar. It will be a bit better stuff than mild steel, probably old EN9 but it turned up nicely. Note the 24" ruler on the saddle, a useful measuring stick if you can get hold of one.
Today is a busy day but I might get in there to cut the billets I need for the rods.... Moving forward!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

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I got in the shed yesterday. Cut and finished the billets for the con rods to exact size. I can do them this way because of the way I am going to make them. Stubby little buggers aren't they!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

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You might be forgiven for wondering why the billets are back in the lathe. Simples! I checked the measurements again and realised I had made a mistake which resulted in the billets all being 1/8" too long so a bit of trimming....

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Cutting the slots for the jaw which grabs the cross-head on the HM isn't the fastest route but it is the most accurate and a cleaner finish so I touched a 1/2" cutter up.

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Patience now and repetitive 50thou cuts to 13/16" depth. No rush.

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Close of play. Two jaws cut, one in the mill and another to go. Nice accurate cuts and a good finish. These slots will also make it easy to get the correct orientation of the cuts on the foot.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

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It didn't take long to get all the slots finished.

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Then some blue and clear marks for the waist of the rod.

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Close of play. The junctions of the waist marked in the lathe with a sharp point and the holes for the cross-head pins drilled. I drilled the holes at this juncture because it's easier to set them up in the machine vice for drilling while they have their parallel sides and the sharp edge at the top to measure from. They're square, in the right place and won't interfere with the grip in the chuck. Ready for a bit of muck-shifting now, the rods will soon stop looking so chunky.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by micktoon »

Hi Stanley , things are coming along nicely, I bet you were glad that the con rod blanks were a quarter inch too long and not quarter inch too short ! It still seems like the horizontal mill and also your two jaw chuck get used very often in the builds both good bits of kit. I look forward to seeing the con rods take shape.
I have not been able to do the lathe due to other things but hope to get back to it tomorrow so will post my progress.
Keep up the good work, Cheers Mick.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

Dead right Mick! Mind you, these things happen and you've got to get over them. See below!

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Started the day by making some swarf!

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It didn't take long to get to this stage. They're looking a bit more like con rods now.

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I wanted some accurate marking for the cuts that start to square the jaws up. Parallel strips are so handy, the 1/2" is a tight fit on the jaw and the 3/16" gives an accurate and parallel line.

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A perennial problem, finding ways to set up pieces accurately for milling. The parallel sided cutting tool gives the foundation and a bit of imagination with another piece of high speed steel and the feeler gauges makes for some accurate setting. Once I have this cut on all the rods it serves as the basis for the cut on the opposite side. Get this one right and the other side is guaranteed.

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Away we go. All four rods treated the same.

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Then turn them over and do the other side.

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This was close of play, enough for one morning but then I offered number one rod up to the cross-head....

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Oh Dear! The centre line of the cross head is not perfectly in line with the journal. Tough, question is what to do? Answer is live with it because this is a fundamental mistake in the boring of the cylinder way back in the mists of time. I've checked the others and they are OK so a bit of thought needed about this one. Dead simple, one of the advantages of being a self-confessed Bum Fitter is that I expect glitches like this. The object of the exercise is to convert a heap of lumps of metal into an engine that will spring into life when you put some steam on. The jaws are a perfect fit on the cross-head and the bore is at right angles to the shaft so the only discrepancy is the centre on the crank bearing. I shall make the joint offset slightly and make sure the side of the con-rod clears the crank web. It will run perfectly and all I can say to the purists who shake their wise old heads is go to it lads and make one better! The engine will drive our little Puffer just as well and when the rods are dancing about nobody will notice a bit of adjustment.
Just to tease you, there's another, even bigger problem looming which you should all have noticed by now but we'll come to that later!
One more thing, I bit the bullet yesterday and odered two deluxe steam valves, £36 down the cut but they will be a nice finishing touch.
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Bodger »

no drive medium on the end of the crankshaft?
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

I mentioned that earlier Bodge, I might make a flange on the end for connecting to the propeller shaft, that's what I did on the big compound but never mind that, we have bigger fish to fry!

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I went in the shed this morning and after about an hour I was a relatively happy bunny with the jaw on the con rod cut back to size and squared and had got to the stage where I decided that I'd better measure how far up the con rod I had to take my reduction to make it central on the offending number one bearing and clear the web. So I measured it from BDC. Remember the old Jewish joke? "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans!" I didn't believe the measurement at first so I did it again several times and then went to sit down and have a good think. It wasn't just the fact that the rod being offset a touch would have to be reduced on one side to avoid fouling the crankshaft web that was the problem, the bloody jaw would foul it as well!
This left me a bit shell-shocked so I had to brew up, light me pipe and have a good think. It didn't take long to work out where I went wrong. I'll explain.... The engines that Newton taught me to build all had one thing in common, we both liked long con-rods, they look so much better when they are running, and so we designed the engines with a con rod two and a quarter times the stroke. This is the big difference between our version of the Stuart 5A and the original, a longer stand so that the rod would satisfy us. This being the case we had plenty of clearance between the webs of the crankshaft and the cross-head so we made the crankshafts with either a full web or a cut down one with a balance weight. That's why I made the crankshafts for this engine with full webs. Unfortunately this is the problem, the full webs take up too much room when the bearing is at BDC and there is only one cure, strip the shafts out and cut the webs off leaving only the throw to the shaft. Bugger!
Actually, the more I think about it the better it gets because the adjustments I need to make to get the number one con-rod running true will be far smaller and less noticeable once the webs are done away with so there is a small silver lining in what is otherwise a dark cloud.
It's a simple job, just annoying. If you don't hear anything from me for a couple of days don't worry, I am OK. just fully occupied with 'adjustments' and of course re-timing my eccentric rods. Good for the soul and it could have been a lot worse!
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

After a bit of thought I have decided to finish squaring the rods and rounding the jaws. Then I'll address the strip down and modification of the crankshafts. They call it engineering!

There is another small matter and you'll laugh at this one. My skills when sharpening milling cutters leave much to be desired and I have decided that I am going to read the instruction book for the Clarkson grinder.... I suppose I should have done this twenty years ago.... Ah well, I told you I was a Bum Engineer! How the hell a bloke at almost 80 years old gets into a situation like this puzzles me, perhaps I was a slow learner!
Stanley Challenger Graham
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scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
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Stanley
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Re: SHED MATTERS. MARINE ENGINES.

Post by Stanley »

An interesting day in the shed! I started the day by reading the Clarkson handbook and was puzzled by the fact that I knew that the way to sharpen the end nilling cutters was to do them on the side of the grinder using a cup wheel but couldn't for the life of me remember why I had ignored this and used the front grinding on a circular wheel. So I went in and had a look at the rabbit.

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All immediately became clear! I bought the grinder after installing the bench and the Vertical Miller and the only space I had was not big enough to allow the table to swing round the side. I'm sure that at the time I made a mental note to do something about it but then got on with things and forgot all about it. As you can see from the picture, the table fouls the bench. By the way, the bench is made from the timbers of Johnny Pickles' old work bench and is solid rough sawn mahogany, as hard as the hobs of hell!

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This was the solution and I can tell you it wasn't as easy as it looks! I made a good job of building the bench and the screws I used were rock solid! No chance of getting them out so I had to use the handsaw for the surgery. I raised a sweat! Biggest job for an old fart with a bad back was getting all the essential stores out of the way.

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After about an hour of honest endeavour I was straight again and ready to proceed.

I had a new cup wheel in stock (surprised?) so I fitted it, followed the instruction book precisely, dressed the wheel and sharpened all my 3/4" shank cutters for a start off. Perfect, no problems and all ground to the recommended rake of 8 degrees. I popped one of the freshly sharpened cutters in the mill and had a go with a piece of scrap MS. Problem was it was worse than before! However, when I had a closer look at it I realised that what I thought was to new edge was the old one, I hadn't ground enough off to get a clean edge so I did it again. All was well, far better cutting and I felt as though I was getting somewhere.

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I did a light cut on the jaw I had already milled and got a much better result but not perfect, I still have something to learn and a bit of experimenting is called for. However, I have got rid of the major faults and there is hope for the lad yet! I might do some more tittivating this morning but will then mill all the other jaws and round them off before attacking the crankshafts. One consolation, no pressure, the one thing I have is plenty of time.
By the way, I fully expected there to be some consequences with me back but touch wood nothing happened, in fact I think the exercise did me good!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
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