POLITICS CORNER

[Tardis]

Has a precedent been set for receiving money 'in error' through expenses in our various levels of government and paying it back?

But you should only resign if there's a fuss?

Maria Miller is a perfect case for the power of recall which Clegg tried to kick into the long grass, but it should apply to all levels of elected representatives

[Bruff]

For public sector employees like civil servants, local authority workers, teachers, lecturers and so on, there's no option in hanging on in the hope there's no fuss. Fiddle one penny and you are out. This is made absolutely crystal clear to anyone starting. If you are overpaid on expenses in genuine error then it must be paid back, on terms that can be agreed in recognition of the error and individual means. But paid back it will be. To be fair, over-payment is most commonly associated in my experience with salary. It is quite difficult for the typical public sector worker to be overpaid expenses in error. But then unlike MPs' expenses, their expenses code is quite simple - 2nd class rail/air travel at the most economic price/Tube/Bus/Car Park; centrally-booked hotel accomodation of a reasonable standard; subsistence at capped actual spend for a 24 hour period (as a guide, think 17 quid for dinner in the evening maximum); no taxi fares in London. That's more or less it outside of exceptional matters like a relocation. We could if there was a will make MP's expenses more simple, but I would argue it come with a significant increase in salary, and I'm not convinced there's an appetite for that.

I'm a bit conflicted on the recall issue. The more I think about it, the more it seems a good idea in theory that actually won't work in practice as intended. Within our democracy it can only be the constituents that have this power (this is why I bang on here about Parliament expelling MPs from the House due to some misdemeaner; this is an affront to democracy in my eyes as it denies constituents a voice in Parliament - remember when Mr Laws was expelled for 3 weeks, his constituents had no voice but he had time to write a book). But how many constituents to force the power? And for what? Defined by whom? How do we guard against mischief among constituents so inclined? Not insurmountable, but not straightforward.

Richard Broughton

[Tardis]

An open goal and Ed missed at #pmqs

Cameron was hardly good either and would have expected to receive much worse than he got

[Stanley]

Richard, I agree with you about recall. For the same reason I have a certain amount of sympathy with arguments about not letting independent outside bodies have governance over MPs and expenses because it attacks parliamentary independence. Of course, self-regulation is only as good as the self-regulators. The big problem at the moment is that enough rogue MPs have been identified to reduce general trust in Parliament as a whole. Arrogant behaviour like Maria Miller getting stroppy with the Standards Committee don't help either. A bit like Churchill's opinion that democracy was a lousy system but the best we have got. We should be very careful and avoid knee-jerk reforms with unintended consequences. The bottom line is that there will always be rogue elements in every walk of life.
Lots of chatter about Maria Miller, did she fall or was she pushed. Who cares? Of course she will have had 'advice' but we will never know from whom. The woman got caught with her fingers in the till (she should have known she was being overpaid), has paid the price and will not be wondering where her next meal comes from. Who knows, she may have learned something about humility and respecting public opinion. I thought this was accurately summed up this morning in a vox pop referring to her as 'another clever dick politician'. Like it or not, that is a very common perception.

[Stanley]

I wonder how many people share my dismay when I read reports LIKE THIS. I know that people should be allowed their private lives but if the multitude of reports this morning are to be believed, it isn't very private! Is this really what we expect from our seat of government?
Later.... Well done BET! They printed my letter even though it criticised our MP. Here it is:

LETTER TO THE EDITOR

Thanks to David Penney for airing the subject of the alternative view of the 'economic miracle' in the 21 March letters. I support everything he says and would add my misgivings about our MP's relentless on-message reports from the house. Also my other worries about aspects of modern life, the relentless growth of gambling, both on-line and in the main street, pawn shops, high interest loans and food banks. These are all evidence of breakdown in modern society fuelled by economic policies which completely exclude the lower 50% of the population. The society I was lucky enough to be reared in valued hard work and was paid a living wage. We were thrifty, we didn't borrow to sustain a life style beyond our means and funnily enough, even though we are told today that the industries we worked in were totally out of date, we had job security and in the main, happy working conditions. When we left school we went straight into work, all right, they were menial jobs and the wages were low but we were learning the disciplines of punctuality, regular attendance and how to work effectively. The better jobs came later with merit. These are the conditions that will improve the lot of the poorest not cheaper bingo and beer as Mr Shapps advocates.
I feel sorry for the young today. I can never remember a time, even in the dark days after WW2, when the prospects were so bad. We are promised pie in the sky but everyone knows that this regression in living standards will last for at least another ten years and during the course of it we will see the reinforcement of the Two Nations, the haves and the have nots.
This raises my ultimate worry. Is what we are seeing a permanent alteration in the rules of engagement with life? Can society as we knew it survive this constant grinding down of standards? We all know about the Law of Unintended Consequences, my fear is that in the rush back to 19th century laissez faire capitalism we shall re-create the conflict in society that did not end until the Labour government of 1945 made the first steps towards creating a more equitable and secure society where people no longer had to live in fear of old age, disability, ill health or the workhouse.
Yes. You are right. I am angry!

Stanley Challenger Graham
East Hill Street
Barnoldswick

21/03/14

Meanwhile the Tory candidate for Coates bangs on about the hot topic of dog fouling....
By the way David, nice piece about the deferral of planning permission. Good luck with it.

[Stanley]

Have a look at this LINK for a report of Ms Tether's justified attack on the Home Secretary who left it to her deputy Mr Brokenshire to respond. I like Ms Teather, she has the courage of her convictions and never hesitates to speak out even against her own party. I'll bet she sleeps easy at nights..... More power to her elbow!

[Bruff]

For all the folk turning up for the free drink, there's generally food available too. The late Donald Dewar was famous for attending as many receptions as he could so as to hoover up the food. His obituaries noted this in a light-hearted way as he was known as the man with the worst diet in Britain. Shambolic and with no interest at all in food, or much else outside politics, he lived on a diet of sausage rolls and vol-au-vonts and the like, invariably having a pie or somesuch in his pocket, that he'd pull out and eat on the hoof at any time.

What is unusual in this day and age is that Parliament is a workplace awash with drink. It's a struggle to think of any others. Plenty of 'Social Clubs' off-plant so to speak, but the days of the 'Staff Bar' on the top floor are vanishing if not long gone.

Richard Broughton

[Stanley]

Mr Twemlow was perhaps right when he described Parliament as the best club in London. (C Dickens. 'Our Mutual Friend')
Why should the taxpayer subsidise the catering and bars at the House? Alcohol does more damage than all the drugs put together, this won't change while there is a drinking culture in the seat of government. My mind goes back to the London docks, each one had a 'wet canteen' and they were open all day.
See this LINK for the continuing exposure of Cyril Smith.
And have a look at this LINK for some chilling news on nepotism.... Do we really need another Blair in Parliament?

[Stanley]

I note that Mr Evans is saying that the CPS should pay his costs (£130,000) which have used up his life savings. This is due of course to the changes in Legal Aid which the party he supports brought in. Perhaps he now recognises the devastating effects of this legislation. I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for him. He also describes himself as not being an out of control drunkard but a gregarious social drinker. His definition of gregarious goes somewhat beyond my understanding of it. MPs are as prone to what some would regard as unacceptable behaviour as anyone else, what seems to have happened here is that it was regarded as 'normal' enough to be done in public. I know I'm old fashioned, at my age that is my right, and this matter disturbs me. More and more I am convinced that the 'Westminster Bubble' really exists, a parallel universe.

[Stanley]

I heard an interesting observation last night by a political commentator, that over the next seven weeks the chamber will only convene for two hours.

[Bruff]

Fascinating isn't it that there's a lot of froth over, as far as we now know or are led to believe, a Kinnock Jr, a Blair Jr and a Straw Jr and a Prescott Jr supposedly standing at the next election Anyone would think dynastic political carve-ups are the preserve of New Labour, if all you read is the likes of The Mail.

But step forward please, and in Parliament now, Francis Maude, son of Angus, Nick Hurd son of Douglas, Ben Gummer, son of John, Bernard Jenkin, son of Patrick....deep breath as there's more. David Prior, son of Jim, Robin Walker, son of Peter, Andrew Mitchell son of David. Blimey, when it comes to 'heirs' the blue heirs seem to be up there with the best of them.

Who knows what'll happen in Bootle, if he ends up selected. As a constituency, it already has its place if you like in electoral history and so of interest to nerdy sad sacks like me. It was here that David Owen's rump SDP polled less than the Monster Raving Loony Party in a bye-election. Despite Lord Sutch (somewhat uncharitably folk might say), immediately offering Owen a coalition, it signalled the end of the SDP.

As an aside, but I guess related to the SDP Bootle debacle, the poor Lib Dems have been beaten in recent polls by a chap dressed as a penguin and some 'Pensioner's Rights' outfit, though admittedy the latter campaigned for OAP discounts on - brace yourselves, I'm being as delicate as I can - sexual aids and the like, a sure fire vote winner for some so it's a shame they came up against them. No further coalitions offered yet though.

Richard Broughton.

[Stanley]

Richard, I'd forgotten about Lord Sutch offering the coalition.... Thanks for that!
Hard times and niche politics spawn weird political campaigns and parties. See the inter-war years for Mosley and the Black Shirts and later the rabid Empire parties. In 'normal' times the major parties are powerful enough to see off the weird ones but I think we are in different territory now. No one party has a solid mandate and distrust of governance is at an all time high. The electors are disillusioned and it looks as though UKIP have a lot of traction. We shall see but we live in interesting times! Funnily enough the saving grace may be that Nigel Farage is such a strange man.....

[Bruff]

I actually realised when I posted it that Lord Sutch offered a merger rather than coalition....

We do indeed live in strange times when the 'go to' party for those disillusioned with the usual Westminster crowd is UKIP, a party who have raised the creative claiming of expenses whilst in Europe to an art form. Led by a man who likes to portray himself anything but a machine politician, yet joined the Tory party at 15 and so desperate for elected office has stood for Parliament six times in separate constituencies. And with a 'manifesto' (apparently now disowned) that if folk could be bothered to read it is, being as generous as I can, deliverably problematic and hilarious at the same time.

Talking of this, did folk read that UKIP fellow and all-round card Godfrey Bloom MEP's letter to the Craven Herald and Pioneer the other week? The one where he noted readers might be interested to learn of moves in some European countries to remove all speed limits I think in rural areas? I'll leave it to others to decide whether they are interested or not, but I don't think he was noting this as yet another dreadful European plot. No, I think it was as one with his policy on drink-driving explained in a Guardian profile the other month. There he noted he would scrap drink-driving laws. The evidence? He is apparently 'perfectly capable' of driving after 5 pints......of the standard stuff he has at his rugby club (which he can apparently 'drink all day') he was at pains to point out, not the too strong stuff.

I don't immediately recall whether this was in the disowned manifesto, but some of the stuff is more barking than this.....

Richard Broughton

[Stanley]

Trouble is, how many people read manifestos or expect the promises in them to be honoured? When it comes to honour, too many politicians seem to have an extremely well lubricated scale of values.

Worth looking at this LINK about the increase in the activities of the Trussell Trust over the last year and contrast it with the 'good news' that wages are catching up with incomes. The question must be 'for whom?'.
Persimmon, the builders, report a 38% increase in sales. Question is, is this healthy for the economy?

[Stanley]

Predictably, we are being bombarded with the 'good news' that wages are rising faster than inflation. As with so may of these gleeful statistics chronicling the 'economic miracle' we need to do a bit of reconstructing. Apart from the statistical possibility that either of these figures (inflation and wage rises) can be out 1% either way, the wages figure includes bonuses which will not be doing the lower 50percentile any good. Strip these out and the wage rise is still below inflation so no good news there. Add the fact that poor people's inflation is higher than the general figure because the items that are falling don't affect them anyway, no good news there. Add also the fact that the cumulative effects of wages below inflation for so many years will take a long time to catch up and you have a picture that is not good news for the poor, only the fat cats.
Meanwhile, in another part of the forest there is a concerted attack on the food banks. Have a look at this LINK and consider the government's statements that welfare cuts have nothing to do with the rise in the numbers using food banks and that 'welfare reforms' are intended to bring more people into work and out of poverty. Really? Could someone please explain the logic of this to me?
The Labour Party point out that the use of food banks is only the tip of the iceberg as it doesn't identify those who are too ashamed to use them or haven't the means to get to one. Add the insecurity of these families in need and the consequences of bad nutrition and you have all the elements for a social time bomb. As one academic pointed out recently in a Panorama programme on high interest loans, if you are in financial trouble now the only there is only one way, downwards into destitution.
A society is best judged by how it deals with the disadvantaged, the poor, sick and disabled. We used to lead the world but now we are one of the worst examples of an economy that has abandoned a large section of the population. The Tebbits and Curries of this world are totally lacking in compassion. Remember that the full effect of cuts hasn't hit yet. There is at least another 50% to come. Osborne himself gave a figure of 60%.

[plaques]

Just to add to Stanley's gloomy statistics. Many of those who are self employed are not included in the wages statistics, these are often on zero hours with very low earnings. However, their numbers are included in the employed figures. Also since earnings are based on total earnings the increase will be subject to 20% tax. Never mind government statistics just watch the profits in supermarkets to see what is really happening.

[Tardis]

Never mind government statistics just watch the profits in supermarkets to see what is really happening.

Should we start with the Co-op, who just wrote down practically all the over valued estate of Somerfield that they took over?

£2.5 billion loss in one year. Still, at least they'll be able to claim back 5 years of past Corporation Tax payments.

[Stanley]

Plucking a totally exceptional annual result for the Co-op out of the blue is not an adequate response to P's point. Rather, look at the fact that the German discounters are forcing the major chains to go down the cost-cutting route. The only exceptions are the high end life-style based companies patronised by the better off. Families with stretched budgets are going for the cheapest offer. Again, look at the plethora of pound shops, pawn brokers, gambling and high interest loans. (Gambling is a symptom of the problem, not a cause) The fall in incomes in the lower 50 percentile is serious and getting worse. The government line of spin is dishonest and an insult to the most needy in our economy.

[Stanley]

It would appear that Alistair Campbell was right when he said "We don't do religion". Mr Cameron has got himself into deep water by issuing his Easter Message referring to the UK as a Christian country. Over 50 prominent people have protested vigorously in a letter to the Telegraph. (LINK)
I think there is more than a hint of politics here, with the elections coming up Cameron is after the 'safe' heartland vote and no doubt he thought this was a 'good idea'. It also betrays what I fear is his core view of the country, something like John Major's vision of old ladies cycling to church. Someone on his team should have done a Campbell on him but does he listen to his advisers? He seems to see no further than his immediate circle, how did they miss the fact that Tony Caplin went bankrupt in 2012?
See this LINK for another attack on Cameron and his Easter message, not the only criticism. It would appear that the church has a better take on what is actually happening in the UK at the moment outside the comfort blanket of the 'economic miracle'. The overall picture is of a blinkered government who doesn't want to admit that there is a problem. Much talk about Labour agonising over whether by concentrating on poverty they are becoming a 'one horse party'. not a bad horse to be on in my opinion if we look seriously at matters of principle and the state of the society at large. This isn't going to go away, the cuts are nowhere near over and the prospects for those already trapped in poverty are dire. Look at the number of families who are just managing at the moment but face the near certainty of interest rate rises on their mortgages in the next year. Certainly before the election in 2015.

[Thomo]

50 assorted public figures is not a suitable number of anything to get exited about, a bit like a grain of sand on a beach. There are a great many people in this country who whilst not attending Church on a regular basis still believe it to be a Christian Country, not going to Church does not affect individual basic ideals or beliefs. Altering a Country's identity may be popular to a few, but when something is changed it is often replaced by something less appealing. The Christian Churches in this Country are involved in many aspects of life, and try to do what they can for the good of all, not just their members. This is not often the case with some of the alternatives! This latest storm in a teacup has all the hallmarks of something that has its origins in the London area, that great multi cultural melting pot of humanity. Do the rest of us really want to live like that?

[Tizer]

At first glance there appears to be a discrepancy between the findings of a YouGov poll that 65% of people questioned described themselves as "not religious" and Office for National Statistics figures showing that despite a drop of four million in the number of people who said they were Christians in England and Wales from the previous census, 59% of residents still described themselves as Christian. But the reality is that the majority of British people don't follow a religion and yet many of them will still say they're Christian because (1) that's how they were brought up, (2) they where christened in a church, or (3) they don't know what else to call themselves. I've often called myself Christian in the past because no suitable alternative was offered e.g. on tick box forms (although now the forms tend to offer at least `None of the above'!). There's also confusion caused by using `Christian' and `christian' - much of my moral and ethical approach to life is what's regarded in this country as christian with a small c, although I think people of other religions might want to claim some or all of it as their own (and humanists and atheists etc would argue that such beliefs don't `belong' to any religion. I'm not a Dawkins convert, I find him too strident and he makes the mistake that I dislike in some religious people of wanting to tell me what I should believe. The best, most compassionate, most concerned religious people I've known have never tried to convert me to their religion and they've provided a great deal of help for other people. I respect them and I don't try to get them to abandon their religion. But what I don't like is when religions strive for power over people and and nations by making unfounded claims and veiled threats, and setting up an aristocracy of priests who act as the middlemen and who judge whether you are `good' or `bad'.

[Stanley]

Couldn't have put it better myself Tiz. I think we are both on the same track! Bit of a puzzle really because many people are not aware of the fact that the roots of the major religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all the same, that's why they are described as the Abrahamic religions. Milliband might be the nearest to the British norm, a Judaic atheist! It would perhaps be better if anyone who wanted to make public statements on theological matters did a bit of research into theology first. We still suffer in this country from the cliché that the Anglican church is the Tory Party at prayer. Funny when you consider that they are the only party to have given us a Jewish Prime Minister, Disraeli. High time the church was disestablished, politics and religion don't sit comfortably with each other as Cameron has just discovered.

[Tizer]

The Saturday issue of The Times had a review of the book that the MOD tried to ban, `An Intimate War: An Oral History of the Helmand Conflict' by Mike Martin. The publisher's web page describes the author: "Mike Martin is a Pashto speaker who spent almost two years in Helmand as a British army officer. During that time, he pioneered and developed the British military's human terrain and cultural capability: a means of understanding the Helmandi population and influencing it. He also worked as an advisor to several senior British officers in Helmand. His previous publications include A Brief History of Helmand, required reading for British commanders and intelligence staff deploying to the province. He holds a doctorate in War Studies from King's College London."
http://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/an-intimate-war/
The book will be a revelation for those people don't seem to have yet grasped how Afghans tick, how much they hate the British, how the real trouble is not the Taleban but the tribes who form and break alliances at the drop of a hat, how the Afghans thought the British army was there to help the Taleban, and how they use the word `Taleban' in a general sense to mean many different people, not just who we think they are.

[Tardis]

Political/media elite walks into Farage trap. Calls his posters racist, enabling him to claim debate shut down. All = loads of publicity

[Stanley]

Exactly what some of us have been saying for years Tiz. Had a look and the book isn't listed yet but I'll be getting it when it's a bit more reasonably priced. Many of the same considerations apply in Iraq and Iran, we kid ourselves that we understand the natives but history proves we get it completely wrong.
On the post above... Who is Iain Martin. So no racist element at all in UKIP campaigning?