POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Stanley wrote: 11 Jun 2017, 03:36 Since 2008 I have advocated a broad coalition like the War Coalitions that got us through two world wars. That would not need a new election and would get the best brains on the job if they could by-pass the idea of confrontation politics.
Like you, Stanley, I would welcome a coalition that concentrated on the really important matters and avoided the Machiavellian whispering, plotting and back-stabbing.

What I definitely don't want is Boris Johnson as PM. I don't want to see the court jester sitting on the throne. Mind you I'm not too keen on seeing the court magician, Jeremy Corbyn, on the throne either! :confused:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Yes a proper cross party coalition would work and would be the best outcome for the Brexit debacle.
plaques wrote: 11 Jun 2017, 07:27 but the whole media emphasis will be that the Labour surge is a temporary aberration that will disappear the next time round.
It was reported yesterday that the Labour Party membership has gone up by another 150,00 since Thursday. :smile:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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For once P I am not sure you are right. My reading of the situation is that there are two reasons for the desperate ploy of keeping a discredited PM in post and begging for help from the DUP. First because of the pressure to get Brexit under way and second (and this could be more important), because they believe that a leadership contest plus another election would give Labour an open goal.
I am incensed every time I hear a Tory pointing out that Labour lost. The truth is that nobody won this election but some lost more badly than others. In terms of leadership and policies the Tories are unelectable at the moment and they know it.
May says she has brought in talent from across the party. Really? Gove replaces the dreadful Leadsom at Environment and she goes to be Leader of the House. Gove said he was 'surprised' to be called, I'll bet he was! I wonder what is going on behind the scenes in the back rooms? As for talent.... The only 'talent' Grayling has is for cocking up and Hunt still at health?
Corbyn, whether court jester or not Tiz, is definitely looking like premiership material and he was quite right to restrict his comments to "It is a party in chaos, we are ready to govern". I'd love to hear him say "I spent an hour or two in the allotment yesterday and here's what I think......".
Meanwhile, in France, Macron's new party En Marche is expected to get a landslide victory when the second round of voting takes place next weekend. How different from the prospect faced over here.
I note that Heseltine has said that Brexit is a cancer eating into the Tory Party. He's bitter I know but he's right. Cameron's Legacy!
Visa reports that consumer spending has fallen for the first time since 2013. The company report that this is a trend they have noticed since late in 2016. It begins to look as though personal debt might be maxing out. Remember that wages are forecast to fall behind inflation this year and there are the unknowns of Brexit. These are small dark clouds on the horizon of the 'economic miracle'.
One thing that struck me as I walked round is that I am much more cheerful than I was at this time last week. Politics is interesting again and this is due to the fact that Corbyn and his party are getting their act together. About time too!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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The backroom boys of the Tory party, and I include most of the media in this, will be analysing the results and trying to figure what went wrong. The immediate action is to hang on in there and try to ameliorate their manifesto by watering down the 'nasty' bits they thought they could get away with had they been returned with a big majority. The 'hanging on' is the normal MP's reaction that thinks the electorate are complete thickies and after a couple of TV programmes, cricket, football, Game of Thrones etc, the underclass will have forgotten all about it. The media may even consider that they over egged the anti-Corbyn rhetoric, nobody likes to see the underdog kicked around too much, and go for more subtle sneaky back biting approach. Someone splashed out £1.2Million on Face Book adverts that must have gone down like a lead balloon with the young people so they will have to try other ways to neutralize this bolshie bunch and get them back into their apathy box as quickly as possible.
Corbyn is going to have to put a sign up on his allotment and call it " Exclusive Gym" then it would be alright.
Monday's rant over.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Stanley wrote: 12 Jun 2017, 02:45 Corbyn, whether court jester or not Tiz, is definitely looking like premiership material...
Just for the record, I didn't call Corbyn a `court jester', I reserve that title for Bojo. At least I credited Corbyn as being the court magician - a clever bearded man who would rather be in his cave with his herbs and books than actually in the court. :smile:

The bad news today is that Gove is back...and he's in charge of the environment and agriculture and - more concerning - tackling climate change. This is the man who wanted to delete climate change from the school curriculum and put more bibles in schools (all schools were sent a copy of the King James Bible with a special foreword written by Gove himself). With Bojo and David Davies we've now got a trio of people at the top who lied to us before the EU Referendum...and the prospect of Bojo as PM.

The good news today is that Trump has said he won't visit Britain if he's going to face street protests. So we all know what to do - get those protests organised quickly!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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I don't think there will be any shortage of protests over the next few months Tiz. :laugh5:

They have just asked for a delay on the Queens Speech, forward together eh!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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It has been suggested that the Queen's speech has been delayed to accommodate adjustments that are to be made to the Tory manifesto. BBC ,Link.. To quote. Brexit Secretary David Davis predicted some parts of the Tory manifesto would now have to be "pruned" after the Tories lost their Commons majority.
BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said the decision to delay it revealed an "ambiguity" about what would go in it - with several manifesto pledges expected to be watered down or dropped - but also the need for the Tories to "nail down" DUP support.
Does altering the manifesto after the event go under the heading of LIES? And that the electorate have been conned into voting for something that wasn't true?
Strong and Stable. Can we impeach a Prime Minister?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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One of the reasons for the delay is also believed to be because the speech has to be written on goat's skin parchment, which takes a few days to dry - and the Tory negotiations with the DUP mean it cannot be ready in time.. l liked this bit as well P. Do you think the bloke that writes it wears knee breeches and a wig?
Tiz. Sorry, you are right I got confused..... (again). I agree entirely about Johnson. This is a Cabinet of the Talents? May's statements get even more surreal. I am convinced that she is totally detached from reality, she actually believes her own advertising. On top of this strong and stable has become an exercise in world class grovelling. I see that her backbenchers were 'incensed' because she didn't apologise to the MPs who lost their jobs. I would be more impressed if she apologised to the country for making a complete horlicks of the job. I have a good memory and have seen some awesome mistakes but never anything on this scale and at such a crucial time.
Which brings me to the 'negotiations' with Brussels.... Can you imagine how Davies must feel about going out to the first substantive talks? If it wasn't for the fact that I dislike him intensely for the way he has been patronising the public in every interview I could almost feel sorry for him but as it is he deserves every humiliation in store for him. How can anyone take him seriously? If it was Keir Starmer going out there I think he would start on a much better footing. The Tories love to give the impression that they are the 'natural party of government' but I am afraid the emperor has no clothes, they have failed on every aspect of government. The words booze up and brewery spring to mind.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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The results of the general election clearly shows we are suffering an "excess of Democracy". This is where minority interest groups like the young, 7% population and the old 21% population Link. take it into their heads that they have a say in what the government needs to do. This of course conflicts with the more sophisticated establishment. 1%, who know what's best for them. Generally they give them suitable derogatory label, trotskyist etc,in which case they can safely be ignored. Pensioners present a slightly different problem. They can try the 'wealthy' label but for some reason the silly old buggers aren't falling for it. It looks like we are in for another few years of austerity therapy until democracy gets back to normal.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Just in case we all need something else to worry about, now there this....
`Global credit bubble at risk of bursting as China and US reach tipping point' 12th June 2017 LINK
"The global ‘credit impulse’ has fallen as dramatically over recent months as it did during the onset of the Lehman crisis, signalling serious headwinds for the world economy and asset prices just as the US Federal Reserve tightens monetary policy. A key UBS tracking indicator shows that the impulse has plummeted by 6pc of GDP since peaking last year, driven by powerful swings in China and the US. The two economic superpowers are both suffering from credit saturation. This is the same peak-to-trough swing seen a decade ago when the US subprime crisis was evolving and as it metamorphosed into the worldwide banking crash of 2008, though the circumstances are clearly different."

On the weekend, a `US diary' in The Times (London) ran a story about how we can trace much of Donald Trump's behaviour back 40 years to a major influence on his life - the Trump family's lawyer at the time, Roy Cohn. This man was an aggressive bully who never backed down, never gave up until he'd won at whatever the cost and would resort to any means available to get what he wanted. It's worth reading this old article from the 20th June 2016 issue of the NY Times to learn more about Cohn and his influence on Trump:
`What Donald Trump Learned From Joseph McCarthy’s Right-Hand Man' LINK
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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It's an old problem isn't it P. Any opposition to the Establishment is 'the enemy within'. Labels are convenient shorthand, "we are freedom fighters they are terrorists". The Germans characterised the RAF as 'Terror Bombers', we mutter about collateral damage.... What's the difference between a drone strike wiping out a wedding party and a bomb in a crowded public place. Corbyn recognises this and it is what is at the root of the attacks on him for his 'terrorist sympathies'. He made the mistake of being honest about his doubts. As I noted yesterday, politicians become dangerous when they start believing their own publicity. They forget that there is more collective wisdom and experience in the electorate than in Parliament, that's why their proper function is to represent the voters.
Tiz, I agree absolutely about credit, or to give it another name, debt. My personal indicator is that when you reach the stage where annual interest rates of 1300% for personal loans are legal and normal, the economy is in deep trouble. The article about Cohn and Trump is interesting and I have heard the story before but when you get down to the roots of the problem the issue is one of control via bullying which itself betrays deep insecurity. That is the trait I always look for in these cases. Try it, it fits so many public figures.
From the sounds of it and setting aside side issues like wet parchment, Arlene Foster knows she has the whip hand and I suspect that when the terms of any accommodation between the DUP and the Tories becomes clear (It won't be overt, it will just trickle out) the majority of the Tory Party is going to be even more angry with Mrs May.
Loved Jeremy standing up and characterising the Tory/DUP stitch-up as a 'coalition of chaos' and saying that Labour is ready to offer 'strong and stable' government. Get stuck in there!!
In the US the stonewalling by Sessions brings back memories of Nixon..... This is not going well.
Neither is the economy, as forecast the effects of the weaker Pound are coming through and inflation is climbing. There are no reasons to expect this to stop any time soon.....
Late news that David Cameron, during a no doubt well paid speaking engagement in Poland, is offering May advice..... The mind boggles......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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We are hearing a lot of noise about how the 'young' suddenly got engaged in voting and turned the predictions on their heads. To some extent this is true but the swing to Corbyn /Labour has a much wider appeal. Taken from a 'You Gov '' survey. Yes, I know, not another bloody survey, the voting patterns are probably not as clear cut as you would expect. Voting. . The obvious fact is that more people voted Tory than voted Labour but the distribution is interesting. Some of the comments are:-
“Despite an increase in in youth turnout, young people are still noticeably less likely to vote than older people.
“While 57% of 18 and 19 year-olds voted last week, for those aged 70+ the figure was 84%.”
Expect this election to be analysed to death and don't be surprised if the Tory manifesto somehow morphs into something like Labours.

I listened to a little You Tube discussion where a gentleman from the Daily Mail, I use the term loosely, said "why should poor people pay for rich people like me to send their kids to university". All very altruistic but the reality is that if everybody had the same opportunity then rich kids would be competing against poor kids for 'some of' the same jobs. Also in the background is that if you graduate with big debt round your neck you are more inclined to toe the line and do what the establishment says.
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Does altering the manifesto after the event go under the heading of LIES? And that the electorate have been conned into voting for something that wasn't true?





It made no difference in the referendum when we were told a load of half truths and then the goal post was changed after the vote. Politicians, ALL. Politicians seem able to say and do what they want. It will come to haunt them. Re Simon Danczk and Rochdale.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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P, explaining away the obvious shift in the tectonic plates of politics is hard. The commentariat need an easy explanation like the young. As you suggest, it's far more complicated than that. The truth is that May's campaign was dire, Corbyn's wasn't and he managed to cut the Gordian Knot with the sword of truth.
Sue you are right, yes they are lies and so was the referendum. Just goes to show what a low ebb democracy has reached. All we can hope is that honesty and sense is creeping back in.
Meanwhile, in another part of the forest, Donald Trump's position worsens. Up to now he has escaped personal accusations and investigation but that has now changed because the investigation into his team has thrown up new facts. This may all seem a long way from us but any instability in the US is damaging to the whole global economy.
Tim Farron announces he is standing down. All sorts of reasons are being advanced but the favourite is that the men in grey suits who pull the strings behind the scenes do not see him as being capable of managing any Liberal come-back. There is much speculation as to whether they will choose a woman. (LINK)
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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What I definitely don't want is Boris Johnson as PM. I don't want to see the court jester sitting on the throne. Mind you I'm not too keen on seeing the court magician, Jeremy Corbyn, on the throne either! :confused:



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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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The one thing that always amazes me, but perhaps it shouldn't, is that when MP's get into trouble with their expenses, usually claiming for things they shouldn't, they always say they overlooked the error because of the pressure of work. In all cases that I've read about for some obscure reason they look after their own expenses rather than hand it over to qualified accountants. Which I may add is what they use for everything else. Complete mystery?
Tim Farron made the mistake of "doing God" something that Alastair Campbell saved Tony Blair from. He could have so easily batted it into the log grass by giving a better answer. He could have always resorted to history and said that homosexuality didn't become a crime until the late 1885 and then only applied to men, women apparently didn't get involved with that sort of thing.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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During the Trump presidential campaign I wrote on here about a mid-western Republican supporter who talked to a reporter from The Times about Trump. He summed it up this way: "Gee, is this man the best we Republicans can do?" That sums up my feelings about all our present political party leaders. We should be able to do better but who would want to be a political leader these days?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Last time I saw Arlene Foster, I thought she would be lucky to avoid prison. Now in the third day of negotiating her pay off for supporting the Tories, arguably the most powerful woman in current politics.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Indeed Tripps, calling the shots with our "government" and not even an elected Member of Parliament, you couldn't make it up!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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I'm tempted to change my tag line to

'What could possibly go wrong' :smile:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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I detect signs of 'business as usual' creeping in as the Tories heave a sigh of relief because they fondly imagine they have got out of their little local difficulty. May goes into the normal mode of using a Court of Inquiry to deal with Grenfell but Sadiq Kahn, no doubt still smarting from the rough ride he got with the residents, warns that there must be an interim report by the end of summer as the residents are angry. I note that May was criticised for only attending the site for 20 minutes and not talking to any of the residents. (Remind you of her election campaign?) Corbyn did better, he spoke directly to the residents and promised he would fight their cause.
Queen's speech is slated for next Wednesday even though there has been no word about the terms of the deal with the DUP. That solves the problem of Brenda refusing to miss any of Royal Ascot!
One thing that has been neatly sidestepped is the fact that after loud criticism of Labour for allegedly considering an arrangement with Sinn Fein in 2015 the Tories are doing the same thing with the DUP who also have links with militant Loyalists.....
Trump is on the verge of making another crass foreign policy decision. He is reported to be about to announce tight travel restrictions on a visit to Cuba. This was one of his campaign promises, the reverse Obama's relaxation of relations with the island.
Mike Pence hires an attack dog lawyer as he watches the net closing on Trump over relationships with Russia. Now why should he feel he needs one?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Stanley wrote: 16 Jun 2017, 02:46 Tories are doing the same thing with the DUP who also have links with militant Loyalists.....
They are probably following the USA lead where the 'peace' talks between Israel and Palestine should continue providing they adjudicate on the talks rather than a neutral country like Sweden. Back home no rational person would believe that a Tory government that is relying on the DUP to keep them afloat can be totally impartial to both Sinn Fein and the DUP in any future talks. Gerry Adams is a lot smarter than all of them put together.
A lot of comment an pictures showing the comparative approach of Corbyn and May to the fire victims. Link. . Corbyn seems to have this natural affinity to connect with ordinary people. How many leaders do you see put their arms round someone in a most natural way?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Trump now wants to fire the special prosecutor. No wonder he gets on well with Putin! If he had half a chance he'd be a typical tyrant.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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P, I agree. I was wanting to see Prince William give those weeping women a big hug. How could anyone not do?
Tiz, it's within his power but if he did he knows the sky would fall on him! Did you see his Cabinet Meeting (Filmed for the media of course) where for 11 minutes everyone said something nice about him. It was ludicrous and sickening at the same time.
May is in trouble, she still can't answer a direct question or stop repeating bullet points. She's a walking Power-point presentation. Interesting that as soon as there was criticism of her first visit she threw £5million at the victims and went down to talk to some of them in the safety of a church. only Corbyn and the Mayor seem to have grasped that what these people want is action now. Jeremy tweaks the rich by suggesting that every empty property should be commandeered for accommodating the displaced. As if......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Trump Cabinet ? I thought is was a meeting of the apprentice USA.

May'£5m for Glenfell Tower is being compared for the £389m for Buck House refurb.
London is fast becoming ungovernable as Labour bodies are as culpable as the tory local authorities. May appointed ex-Housing Minister Gavin Barwell as her Chief of Staff. Are there any emergency powers around to find someone in real control and it it worth actually voting Green as a serious alternative to the two parties. Are tories on any ablitity to goven with any leader in the HoC ? (The scottish woman maybe ....) . Oh, and Brexit negiotiations start on Monday, I think EU commisioners send the UK an invoice, payable in Euros (and the £ is falling ....), with the installment plan on it no doubt. So pleased that british industry will get great selling to india, brazil, dogdy places in africa, and ?Qatar?.
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