The Barlick War Memorial Group

[Stanley]

Peter, your problem prompted me to try opening one of my old archive discs created years ago on Windows 32 bit. I don't know what your system is but Ubuntu 64 bit opened the disc with no problems. Have a word with Pluggy, he may have a solution for you without having two systems running.

[Thomo]

Thanks for that Stanley, Sadly the old PC rolled over and died last night and is now back in the garage. Feeling a bit "gutted" I went to a site that I have and found it updated and I can now access far more information than that on Soldiers died. Triumph over adversity, some of the stuff that I am going to put on here shortly may interest you, ie, one of the men on David Whipps list lived at "Craven Working Mens Home" when he enlisted, more later, and it is beginning to look as though my list of missing names as increased by over 50%,

[Stanley]

Peter, that's the old Model Lodging House in Butts. One clue about the old disks, on Ubuntu I have to tell the system to 'mount' the disc. Probably because the boot information on 32 bit isn't recognised.



Lousy quality pulled from a pic of the Model in about 1920. It reads 'Artisans. Working men's home'.

[Thomo]

Having spent much of today looking at Scott Flavings list I can see that there are names worthy of inclusion on the memorial. Pte, George Alfred Bailey living at 11 Bessie St enlisted in Barlick is one, and there are several others, I still have much to do on this list, but the last one of today is Pete, George Lawson born at Newhouse Farm Bracewell, I have 15 copies of docs relating to him and consider him to be a fair candidate. However there is a name on Scotts list that is also on my list for addition, but maybe not for much longer. I have copies of 13 docs for this one and the reading is not good and whilst I do not intend to offend anyone, further research is required. Pte William Dowd No 11284 of the Dukes was apparently killed on 06-05-1915 my docs show him as enlisting on the 25th of September in that year later to become 266893. Both were the same age and are placed in Barlick, the latter enlisted as No 4691, the number accredited to the record held by CWGC. I have Pte William Dowds signature on his release doc from Clipstone Camp on 13-03-1919 where during the year of 1916 he was AWOL 6 times, drunk on duty, caught gambling in barracks, OOBs acruing nearly two months CBs with a further 42 prior to release. I suspect that something happened in 1915 that has been lost in the fog of time which is just as well for if I am correct it would not make for pleasant reading.

[Whyperion]

If you dont have an online access to military records I can look up one or two at Kew when I am down in London if you let me know the likely PRO reference.

[Thomo]

Thank you, what I have is CPGW, CWGC, Ancestry with military records and LBMD, all else is down to a fair degree of patience and determination. What I could do with is the use of a 32 bit stack with Windows XP loaded, I thought I could manage without when my old one died, but the Soldies Died stuff on Ancestry is not quite the same as is on the disc that I have, my new rig will not run it.

Regards: Thomo.

[Whyperion]

I was more thinking of the odd circumstances and back stories , as generally the online sources and your other searches will give you what you need just as quick.

I have a Dell tower PC which might have XP on it , ( most of mine are vista though I prefer XP ) , it keeps spending its time auto -updating everytime I connect to the net , but if you want to borrow it you are welcome to give it a try. (I'm away but relatives can point you in the right direction of the box )

[Thomo]

That is both generous and wonderful. thank you. You can mail me on "thomosmech@yahoo.co.uk" with details of how I may contact you or yours. I still like XP myself and there is a way to prevent the auto downloading and it leaves you with the option of choosing what you want without including all the stuff you don't. Once again Thank You.

Best Wishes: Thomo.

[Thomo]

Up to now, out of Scotts list of 18 names, two are on our memorial, two are on the Earby memorial and one is already on my list for inclusion pending further research. Of of the remainder I have Pte, George Alfred Bailey. Pte, Alfred Ernest. Pte, George Iveson Hammond. Pte, Wilfred Holmes. and Pte, George Lawson who all appear to be worthy of inclusion. The one listed as Herbert Howarth is in fact Pte Herbert Haworth who may also qualify, this leaves a further six awaiting primary research. The major difference that I have encountered between using Soldiers Died online, and the disc that I accessed for a very brief period is that the disc has more input points for known information which greatly improves the speed of results.

[Stanley]

Peter, one way to run a PC without any updating or interference is to disconnect it from the web. My old IBM has been running happily for years as a back-up isolated from the internet. I use it for my scanner and some genealogical progs that won't run on Linux. Transferring data from it to the FM2 is dead easy with a pen drive. No problems with malware either so you can delete all anti virus programmes which speeds the machine up no end.

[Thomo]

At last I believe we have settled the matter of Pte William (Willie) Dowd, the William we had been looking at was the Son of William Dowd senior, both were resident on Essex St. We now have conclusive proof that William junior survived the war in the form of a copy of his discharge papers, it was William Dowd senior who was killed, both served with the Duke of Wellington West Riding Regiment. John came over again yesterday and updated my copy of CPGW to include the names fron Scotts list.

[Tizer]

Hello Thomo, we haven't corresponded for a while and I hope all is well for you and your wife. I haven't been following this thread but I can reinforce what Stanley has just said about using a PC isolated from the Internet. My main PC is Linux and connected to the Internet but I keep a `legacy' Windows PC without an Internet link for all the old bits and bobs that are too old or incompatible for the Linux PC, and use USB pens to transfer data. Also like S, I have uninstalled all the unnecessary software from it and that leaves a lot more disk space and speeds it up.

When you have a spare minute take a look at the curious aircraft pics that I've just posted on the Winged Heroes thread:
http://www.oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk/view ... =25#p11377

[Thomo]

Roger that Tizer. My main PC is set up not to accept any incoming without my permission so I do not have any large antivirus stuff loaded. The wife is now back at work on light duties and I am up to my ears in the research again. New avenues for this keep opening up, with each a virtual "Pandora's Box". I have been kindly offered the use of another PC stack by a fellow member, this should allow me to use the Soldiers Died disc which will speed further research up no end,

[Thomo]

At last the long search for the WW1 missing names from the towns memorial is almost at an end. This week I turned my attention to a list of 19 names linked to Barlick, most were born here but were permanently resident elsewhere at the time of death, There are still several names from Scotts list to look at and then when my list is as complete as possible I will check them all again. Updates are always appearing and I shall keep checking through them until such time as we are ready to present our findings to the council. Shortly it will be time to begin the main task, going through the full list of WW1 dead, checking all of the information, putting them in chronological order and formatting them for the intended book. This will not be produced as a list although they will all be included, for there are interesting stories to attach, photographs and copies of documents and even letters, some of which are amusing, but most are moving to say the least. The total now stands at over 300 names and looking at estimates of the number of men who went from Barlick to serve us all, it represents an awful portion of whatever total left their homes. I am not sure what the population of Barlick was in 1914, but it was an heavy loss. Stanley, can you help with that one?

[Stanley]

According to the BUDC year Book for 1973/74 the population in 1911 was 9,703 and in 1921 11,910. Barlick was expanding rapidly so a good bet would be about 10,500 during WW1

[Thomo]

Thank you Stanley, with a bit of mathematics it would appear that I was right about the high impact. The nearest estimate of men who served from Barlick is around 850 so it was indeed a very high proportion of casualties. Thanks to the very kind offer of a 32 bit PC stack from Whyperion, I now have access again to the SD disc which speeds up the process of checking as there are more input areas than are available on the online version, ie known service number and regiment. Onwards and Upwards.

[Thomo]

The appeal put out in the BET and Craven Herald at the begining of the year is stiil bringing in the occasional responses, although most end up with a deal of becoming "side tracked" it can be interesting. At the weekend a mail was passed to me by Hannah Upton of the BET, from a lady in Liverpool, Marion Dunn, attached was a copy of a postcard she had found amongst her late Grandfathers effects. It was simply addressed to No 6 Craven St Barnoldswick and bore the picture of a Soldier, after a bit of poking around I found a name for the Family at that address, Duxbury. This bit is a dead end, but I did have a look at her Grandfather. All she knew was that he was an ambulance driver in WW1 and that he been in Italy. Henry Conrad Dunn was born in Liverpool in 1897 and I found him as such in the 1911 census, thereafter he dropped the Conrad bit but I managed to find a complete set of his Army Records 12 in total, plus 2 census returns and letters of recomendation from his former employers and his technical college principal, Henry had been an apprentice driver and motor mechanic. The earlier census return also names Marions GG Grandparents and the Military docs have her Grandfather in Italy driving a Sunbeam Ambulance, So she is in for quite a surprise when she checks her mail. How the world doth shrink!!

[Thomo]

The end is in sight at last. I am doing the final check on the 22 names that I have, thats 18 done and 4 to go, just 2 cannot be confirmed as resident here up to now. Earlier I mentioned correspondence with a Marion Dunn of Liverpool, she sent me a copy of a postcard from her Grandfathers effects, a Pic of a Soldier on one side and the address 6 Craven St on the other and could I identify him. Purely by accident this morning I came across this:- Pte Norman Salisbury Thompson No 102137 of the Army Sevice Corps (MT) section, address: 6 Craven St Barnoldswick, same outfit as her Grandad. Result!!!

[Thomo]

It is done at last with a time span of 5 months. I now have a list of 19 names for addition to our War Memorial from WW1 and so here they are:-

Private George Alfred Bailey No 5362 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.
Gunner Peter Barrett No 88959 Royal Garrison Artillery.
Private Joseph Clayton No 24114 Duke of Wellington's WR Regiment.
Sergeant James Hartley Crowther No U/K East lancs Regiment.
Private William Dowd No 11284 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.
Corporal Alfred Ernest No 4133 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.
Private John Fay No 1706 East lancs Regiment.
Sergeant George Abraham Golding No 266285 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.
Private Arthur Green No 333429 Highland Light Infantry.
Private James Hargreaves No 327880 Labour Corps.
Private Herbert Haworth No 266636 Duke of Wellington's WR Regiment.
Private Wilfred Holmes No 10990 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.
Private George Lawson No 19651 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.
Private George Miller No 266811 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.
L.Corporal John Robert Nicholson No 46470 Northumberland Fusiliers.
Private Edmondson Pickles No 93697 Northumberland Fusiliers.
Private Thomas Pilkington No 24067 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.
Private James Wilson No 12989 East Lancs Regiment.
Sergeant John Wilson No 265478 Duke of Wellingtons WR Regiment.

For the greater part I Have Copies of Military Documents and census returns and for the few that have neither, I have copies of newspaper articles.

[PanBiker]

Well done Peter. I have posted all of my information to date in the research thread. Due to restrictions with access to records and no access to later census information the best I will be able to produce for the later names will be small snippets from press articles produced at the time or information held by the CWGC which usually has next of kin information, either parents, spouse or both.

No doubt, more information will become available in the future as records are released into the public domain. As it stands at the moment you need to be a direct family member to access the records of those who served in the Second World War and subsequent conflicts.

We will certainly be looking at more than 30 names to be added though if all my finds are valid. I will continue to post my findings in the research thread and leave this one for general discussion of the project and how we are progressing.

[Thomo]

And an equal number who didnt make it, but there is still time for some maybe:-

ABBOT A Born in Barlick 1891 C 17 Butts later Nelson.
ABBOT B Born in Barlick 1911 C Bury.
BELL A Born Barlick.
BLEZZARD J Born Barlick 1901 C in Barlick.
CLITHEROE W Barlick resident.
COUSINS G Born Barlick 1901 C in Barlick 1911 in Earby.
CROSS G S
DAWSON W Born Goole uncertain not on Barlick memorial
DODGEON B Born Barlick.
DUERDEN R Born Blackburn lodged in Barlick.
FEARN C Born Barlick 1901 C Derbyshire.
FRANKS G P Born Barlick 1901 in Barlick then Lincs.
IREDALE J Resident 23 Beech St Barlick.
PICKLES M Born Barlick resident Burnley.
SHAW J Resident Barlick ?
SHAW E doubtfull.
TOFT H R Doubtfull.
WALKER S Born Barlick resident Nelson.
WALSH T 1901 resident Barlick ?

[Stanley]

Bumped up

[Thomo]

The horns of a dilemma!! Of the first group above, two were Barlickers in the sense that they were born were resident here at their time of death, the remainder were born elsewhere, in Salterforth, Bracewell, Bacup, Padiham, Great Harwood, Skipton and further away in Lancaster. As such they may well be on other memorials and I am fairly sure that some are, but their recorded residence at time of death is here. A major part of those in the second group were born here, but at time of death were recorded as resident elsewhere and as such may also be on other memorials, Do any of you have your own ideas about this or should we present both groups to the council and let them decide? We need your help with this one, Please!!

[Whyperion]

Is there any written protocol for inclusion , how where the original names included , from the memories of families or friends resident in Barnoldswick after each of the wars ?

[PanBiker]

There is no definitive answer to this question as the criteria for inclusion was left to individual communities to decide who was included on their local memorial.

The War Memorial Trust carries information sheets on all aspects of memorial preservation and maintenance and the etiquette which should be adhered to when dealing with such issues. I used these guidance notes when formulating my objection to the recent proposed move of the memorial which did not meet the necessary criteria for relocation.
I have downloaded the relevant information sheet and appended it her as a pdf. It should answer the majority of queries and provide a way forward.

For the record, I have read most of the advice on the site and from the information contained there I think that with the experience that has been gained during the research we could arrive at an acceptable criteria for inclusion and put this forward after publication in the local press, (to give reasonable notice of intention and an opportunity for objections).

It does not matter if an individual is duplicated on more than one memorial. A lot of the existing names on the memorial are also already included on other plaques and rolls of honour in the chapels and working men's clubs and associations around the district. Some indeed are already included on memorials in foreign fields.

War Memorial Trust 115.pdf