DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

[Wendyf]

Why do we call it raddle & not reddle? Thomas Hardy's "Return of the Native" always comes to mind when I see red markings. The male character of the novel is a travelling reddleman, producing the red ochre dye used to mark sheep. It comes in all colours now, and some of the ewes get multi-coloured back ends if the tups are swopped.

[Tizer]

Bourne End, in Bucks, is where the local River Wye coming through High Wycombe runs into the Thames.

Wendy, they must end up `black & blue'!

[hartley353]

Poor shepherding if the sheep are covered by more than one ram. Not only does the dye indicate that the sheep was covered, it will also tell the shepherd if the ewes don't lamb that he has a poor sire and it needs changing.

[Tripps]

Being interested in words makes me think about everyday expressions. Today I mused on 'humbug'.
Leaving aside the pompous nonsense version - why is it a minty sweet?
Best I could think is that they are striped like a bumble bee, which with a bit of imagination, is a humming bug.
Any improvement anyone?

[Whyperion]

There are some similar striped 'Bugs'. The Norse word hum, or hume, actually means 'dark air' in Old Norwegian. (wikipedia), which could refer to the dark stripe, or the hiding of the softer center. Bugge is also suggested as swollen up, thick, from wiktionary.

[Stanley]

Raddle and ruddle are variants of reddle and most likely stems from the colour.Raddled can also be an adjective meaning affected by long dissipation or age. It is also used to describe the laths used to separate the warp threads in a weaving loom. No source seems to have a precise definition.

[Stanley]

I came across 'chivvy' yesterday. Not widely used round here. The nearest I have to an origin is the OED suggestion that it was originally a hunting cry.

[Tizer]

Humbug...Collins says `of imitative origin'; in Old High German the word `humbal' means bumble bee. It also suggests the word implies deceit, something that is not what it appears to be (which may explain the use for a striped sweet).

Here's an interesting new BBC article on WW1 slang:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26277732
I was at first surprised by the claim that `Blighty' was first used in the Boer War when its origin is said to be Urdu - but then remembered that many of the soldiers sent to South Africa to fight the Boers had come direct from service in India. Which raises another interesting fact. The first British soldiers sent out to SA to fight Boers were easily picked off by snipers because they still wore the bright red British Army uniform; it was only when the troops came in from India that they were safer due to their khaki uniform. (Khaki: the Urdu word for `dust' - aren't words wonderful? Once you start you can't stop!)

The mention in the article about slang words for shell or bullet sometimes being based on the colour of the smoke reminded me that shrapnel shells produced a lot of white smoke. This was caused by antimony added to the lead shrapnel. But the main reason for the antimony was to alloy with the lead, making it harder and therefore more able to penetrate clothing, armour and bone. Aren't we sometimes very horrible to our fellow men?

[Stanley]

My dad used to talk about 'whizz bangs' and 'Moaning Minnies'. In the Billy Brooks tapes in the LTP he talks about seeing the red coated soldiers in the 'African War' as he called it. He said the Boers called them Roer necks. In WW1 the French army had the best quick firing field gun, the 75mm and it was most effective against advancing troops when firing shrapnel rounds as what they called ricochet fire. The aim was to hit the ground at low trajectory in front of the troops and the effects were described as 'most satisfactory".

[Stanley]

One of the nice things about reading old books is that you are reminded of archaic usages of words. I'm reading Joshua Slocum at the moment and in one passage he talks about 'Forestalling' his arrival at the Cape of Good Hope where he expected a rough passage by resting and feeding himself up. I've come across 'stalled' in the local area as meaning 'full of food' and so we get a sense that forestall in Slocum's time was to do with food and preparation for an event. Rather different today when it is generally used in the sense to pre-empt.
In the same book I found 'michingly', not a word I have come across before and can't find it in the dictionaries. He uses it in the same sense as 'grudgingly'.

[Tizer]

Someone has written to The Times pointing out that almost every time one of their journalists uses the word `coruscate' they use it wrongly and probably meant to use `excoriate'. He gives the meaning of coruscate as to sparkle and excoriate as to abrade.

[elise]

FORESTALLING: Basically the intervention of people on their way to market, buying up their wares, usually foodstuff, so a high price could be commanded at market.

MICHINGLY: Hiding; skulking; cowardly

[Tripps]

Belle treated us to 'forestalling' on the old site. From a rapidly retreating memory I think she said it meant putting up your stall before the appointed time for the market, which when you look closely, is exactly what it says.
I think the punishments were quite severe.
Elise's definition sounds good - since it would be more difficult to prove.

[Cathy]

I always thought forestalling was to try to prevent something from happening, for eg by making decisions slowly.

[Stanley]

That's the modern usage Cathy but words alter their meanings over the years.
Do you remember our oat debate when I realised that Havre was the archaic term for oats and so explains Havre cakes, Havre Park in Barlick and haversack? Slocum mentioned a knapsack so I looked it up. 'Knapp' is 16th C Low German for a bite of food so the origin of knapsack becomes clear.

[Tripps]

That's interesting. I remember the word ' snap' being used for a packed lunch taken to work. I wonder if that's a derivation from knapp. The person concerned was married to someone from Ipswich, which is not far from Low Germany.

[Bodger]

Holmfirth area, snap was you work food

[Stanley]

I've heard 'bait' and 'bagging' as well.....

[hartley353]

Snap is the word I have always used for my take to work meal, and always believed it had its roots in mining.

[Tripps]

Thank you all for that - looks like the Low Germans got about more than I thought.

Stumbled across this a few days ago. I'm sure I can fit it in somewhere. . . .

1. Ultracrepidarian (n): "Somebody who gives opinions on subjects they know nothing about."

[Stanley]

If you can use it in the same sentence as tergiversation you get a bonus!

[chinatyke]

Like most ultracrepidarians, he has the gift for tergiversation.

[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... iversation] - Almost!

Edit: sorry, I cannot spell words I've never come across, my English was bad that day, now corrected! Love the ultracrepidarian word!

[Tripps]

Welcome back China. I've been wondering whether a semi tropical climate, cheap beer and takeaways, were sufficient compensation for a lack of this site. It's a close call.

[Stanley]

He must not post pics of himself from now on. I'm convinced that was the cause!

[Tizer]

Perhaps that device on his head was a secret Chinese invention and they're worried he's given the game away.