Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Tizer]

It is good news and will save lives but some of the newspaper headlines will give folk the wrong impression, that it can protect them from being harmed by the virus or even stop them catching it. It's only useful for treating people who have already caught the virus and are at the stage of needing respiratory intervention. A great advantage of the drug is that it's a well-known corticosteroid that's been around since the 1960s and has well -researched anti-inflammatory properties. And as Chinatyke says, cheap as chips!

On a different note...
`Coronavirus: Toilet fears hamper high street return for some' LINK
It might sound funny but the lack of toilets will be a major problem. When I walk into town I'll always need a pee before I start the return journey. What am I supposed to do, pee on the nearest statue?

In that article is this: `Scientists in China have found that flushing the toilet with the lid up creates a cloud of spray that can be breathed in and may spread infection, such as coronavirus. Droplets can travel up to 3ft (91cm) from ground level, according to the computer model used by the scientists from Yangzhou University.' Later I saw another article, a more detailed description of presumably the same work: `Flushing 'can propel viral infection 3ft into air' LINK I'm glad they are mentioning this but someone ought to tell them about the British microbiologist John Postgate who wrote `Microbes and Man', published in 1969, and pointed out the dangers of aerosols containing pathogenic microorganisms produced during flushing the loo. He always recommended putting the lid down before flushing. John Postgate (If you read the `Personal Life' section at the end of that Wikipedia article you'll find Postgate was also a jazz musician...and his great-grandfather campaigned against food adulteration.)

[Whyperion]

Rather oddly, the Bible (and probably earlier cuniform scripts) campaigned against the adulteration of food, and use of false weights.

The treatment , if preventing the deaths of say, 1 in 20 , still means 19 out of 20 on ventilators are not helped , sorry to rain on anyones celebratory parade.

[Whyperion]

Numbers 1,056 confirmed positive UK new cases to last night (sunday), Deaths up about 38.

Cases Up to Monday 1,279 increase of new persons, reported deaths up by 233. two days dont make trends.

Tuesday Cases Up 1,115 , deaths up 184 . Oliver Dowden claims 7day average is going down. I dont think for cases that is trend enough, deaths might just be getting lucky, or the better treatment . I would not be happy if the death amounts in England are basically flat in numbers.
Wednesday
Cases Up 1,218 , Deaths Up 135.
Thursday
Cases Up 1,346 Deaths Up 173

Significant totals of outbreaks in food processing plants in wales, are their methods and protections less robust than what has been shown on TV of say a sausage maker or is the situation not really possible to control. One problem may be that food processing has not been formaly shut down for any period so employee numbers have been balanced on a knife edge.

[Whyperion]

From The BBC Again
"Medical workers in Beijing are finding that new patients being treated for Covid-19 are experiencing “strange” symptoms, including joint and stomach discomfort.

They are also finding that “different weather, living habits and body types may result in symptoms varying in different regions”, according to the national Global Times newspaper.

This is not the first time Chinese specialists have seen the virus "change". In mid-May, specialists treating the virus in the north-east noticed different symptoms in patients - fatigue or a sore throat, as opposed to a fever or a persistent cough."

nope, I dont understand it either.

[Whyperion]

With Russia, in case you were wondering. Russia has the third-highest number of cases in the world (552,549) and 7,468 deaths, according to official figures. The Death Figures might look low, this appears to be a possible instance of classifying deaths as Pneumonia. This might be technically correct.

[Stanley]

Dead right again Tiz. Always put the lid down first.

[plaques]

But don't forget to bleach it first.
.

Breakfast.jpg

[Sue]

From The BBC Again
"Medical workers in Beijing are finding that new patients being treated for Covid-19 are experiencing “strange” symptoms, including joint and stomach discomfort.

They are also finding that “different weather, living habits and body types may result in symptoms varying in different regions”, according to the national Global Times newspaper.

This is not the first time Chinese specialists have seen the virus "change". In mid-May, specialists treating the virus in the north-east noticed different symptoms in patients - fatigue or a sore throat, as opposed to a fever or a persistent cough."

nope, I dont understand it either.

They just seem to be identifying in stages, the full range of symptoms that have already been identified and stated elsewhere. It has been known for a long time that a few, and not many sufferers have diarrhoea. I think I read somewhere way back in March, that the same receptor as found in the lungs is also in the intestine, but in general viruses entering the body via the digestive tract will be destroyed by the pH of the stomach. At the tome the only explanation they could give was that the patients had received and ingested a very high loading of the virus which survived the acidity. Many people recovering from COVID complain of muscle aches. I wonder if it is a bit like post viral fatigue syndrome.

[chinatyke]

Breakfast.jpg

Great idea but does it make the food taste better?

[Whyperion]

thanks Sue, given where it was found that makes better sense than the BBC reported conclusion. The increase in muscle ache presumably is from the same ingestion source into the body not via the lungs. Must be quite high into the stomach, depends what else one ate that would give a less unfriendly place for virus to survive in, that can change as the year goes by on season or preferences.

[plaques]

The increase in muscle ache presumably is from the same ingestion source into the body not via the lungs.

I've never heard anyone say that the virus is capable of entering the body through food by way of the stomach . Its always been via eyes or mouth, licking contaminated fingers etc, but mainly by breathing droplets containing covid into the lungs. Contaminated chopping blocks may be a source of infection but I rarely eat bat or other exotic foods.
Although inches of news print has been generated over the debated on the use of face masks I've never seen anything about wearing protective glasses of the kind you would use in the workshop. In my mind glasses would be a barrier in receiving and would offer more protection in that respect.

[Stanley]

P, no actually. Lid down and flush, then check for skid marks, brush and bleach, don't flush and leave brush in bleach. Next time you use it it has had a good bleach soak and can be flushed with lid down and you know it's clean.
Once again I urge you to get hold of a copy of Private Eye and read this week's piece by MD. That man should be in charge of everything!

[Sue]

The increase in muscle ache presumably is from the same ingestion source into the body not via the lungs.

I've never heard anyone say that the virus is capable of entering the body through food by way of the stomach . Its always been via eyes or mouth, licking contaminated fingers etc, but mainly by breathing droplets containing covid into the lungs. Contaminated chopping blocks may be a source of infection but I rarely eat bat or other exotic foods.
Although inches of news print has been generated over the debated on the use of face masks I've never seen anything about wearing protective glasses of the kind you would use in the workshop. In my mind glasses would be a barrier in receiving and would offer more protection in that respect.

I have only just erased the article that I researched for a friend who was worried about eating in restaurants because she thought it was like salmonella poisoning. You are right it is by breathing in etc. But they could not explain the diarrhoea symptoms and presence of the virus in the faeces. Bob has also mentioned protective glasses as used in a workshop. I think the problem would be the cleaning due to the intricate shape etc, whereas a visor can be wiped.

[Sue]

This is what I wrote to my friend on April 27 th, I later found an article that supported what I summised


.....
Ok Joan, I can’t find any recent research on the virus in faeces. There is lots or early work ie February and early March that says the faecal virus could be infectious. Only about 3 % -6% of infected people have the virus in their faeces. It also said that those that do actually have a lower survival rate.

Most of what I have read tonight in scientific documents say the same as I said. It should be destroyed by the digestive system, if not its possible not as viable. If it is active then normal hygiene precautions would limit the spread. Ie detergents, bleach, alcohol . I found one article written 8 days ago, but I could not gain access. All the reports say considerable research is needed and it is unlikely to be a major route of infection because the dosage received is important to determine infectivity but in a hospital situation where there is a greater exposure to body fluids of all descriptions then the dose received could be abnormally high and there fore may be a risk. Many articles said that any virus entering by the mouth are usually swallowed and digested, destroyed by stomach and intestine environment.

I did find some of the ordinary newspaper headlines rather scaremongering, with words like could being buried in sensationalist statements and headlines. There is rather a lot of that going on at the moment....

[Sue]

https://www.cghjournal.org/article/S154 ... 0481-X/pdf


This was ‘t it, but it says the same.

[Stanley]

From what I hear on the news the world-beating track and trace app is about to be abandoned. Oh dear! I thought it was essential.

[Big Kev]

Abandoned in favour of an app developed by Apple and Google. They've had years of experience tracking everyone...

[Sue]

From what I hear on the news the world-beating track and trace app is about to be abandoned. Oh dear! I thought it was essential.

Its very complicated Stanley. I recall them saying it would make tracing more effective. I don’t remember the word essential . No the manual tracing is essential, however many are refusing to do the 14 day quarantine required, according to my friend who is a manual tracer. The training was thorough empathetic but this has been a stumbling block. So many don’t understand the reason for it . Apparently many are scared because they were already breaking the isolation rules to be a contact so decline to help!

Social media has been circulating a scam message that the app is an invasion of privacy and people are asking their friends to remove them from their contacts list. This is one of the issues that surface pd on the Isle of Man, and some numb skulls have started scaremongering people. Social media has a lot to answer for.

[Wendyf]

Though the app works on android phones the distance measuring is blocked on Apple devices and Apple won't do anything about it and are developing their own app instead, as are Google. Money, money, money.

[Sue]

Though the app works on android phones the distance measuring is blocked on Apple devices and Apple won't do anything about it and are developing their own app instead, as are Google. Money, money, money.

Bob mentioned that to me as well. But the other issues are major. People who ignore the rules are worried that are going to be continuously in quarantine or on a list somewhere with consequences. These are real issues reported by the tracers, and indeed people who have been traced and refuse to comply. Hopefully enough will comply to have some effect.

[Tizer]

A useful article by Robert Cuffe, Head of Statistics at the BBC...
`Coronavirus: How does the UK's death toll compare with other countries?' LINK
`The UK currently has the third highest number of recorded coronavirus deaths in the world. Only the United States and Brazil have had more, and both countries have far bigger populations. But while the UK has been hit hard, how does it really rank alongside other countries? Just comparing Covid-19 deaths doesn't give the full picture as countries have different ways of recording deaths. Scientists and ministers say it's better to look at total deaths, even the ones that aren't caused by coronavirus. So what can we learn about the UK's toll if we look at it this way?..'.

Interesting data on accumulation of virus in the wild food chain - rather like the concentration of pollutants in the ocean food chain...
`New evidence of virus risks from wildlife trade' LINK
`Rats sold in the markets and restaurants of Southeast Asia harbour multiple coronaviruses, a study shows. The proportion of positives increased as live animals were moved from "field to fork", suggesting they were picking up viruses in the process. The strains detected are different from Covid-19 and are not thought to be dangerous to human health. But scientists have long warned that the wildlife trade can be an incubator for disease. The mixing of multiple coronaviruses, and their apparent amplification along the supply chain into restaurants, suggests "maximal risk for end consumers", said a team of researchers from the US and Vietnam...
`...High proportions of positive samples were found in field rats destined for human consumption. The proportion of positives significantly increased along the supply chain:
Farms - 6%
Traders - 21%
Large markets - 32%
Restaurants - 56%.
Detection rates in rodent populations in their "natural" habitat are closer to 0-2%, said the researchers...'.

If you listen to Inside Science you'll have heard this story already. How the Animal Health Institute at Pirbright in Surrey has been subjected to a torrent of abuse and threats because of conspiracy theorists claiming they are responsible for the covid-19 epidemic, and others claiming they already have a vaccine but are not sharing it. The truth is that the UK's Pirbright institute is world-renowned for its research on all aspects of animal health. Animals suffer from viruses and therefore Pirbright studies them and where possible develops vaccines for our livestock.
`Coronavirus: How a false rumour led to hate online' LINK
`Researching viruses in farm animals is essential rather than glamorous work, and the Pirbright Institute in Surrey excels at it. But recently they've been getting some very unwanted attention. For months they've been unwittingly drawn into the orbit of conspiracy theorists, including those who accuse Bill Gates of planning the coronavirus pandemic. It's led to hate mail and threatening phone calls. "We'd never experienced anything quite like that. Some of the commentary was quite vicious. Calling us murderers, that type of thing", says Teresa Maughan, head of communications...'.

That report makes me think about when I was doing research on influenza viruses and vaccines 50 years ago. If I was doing it now I would probably be facing death threats and claims that I was developing something to kill people! this is the world we live in now, sadly.

[Whyperion]

Even if Pangolins were not the intermediary, we know China had allowed the farming of same, and again it appears that markets for their cities appear concentrated - the Beijing one supplying most of the city. This model seems inherently less safe unless modified for more space, light and air. For meat China probably could not rely on the large beast supply that western europe does due to its much larger population. Some re-thinking required. I wonder if the reproduction rate of smaller mammals enables them to evolve out some of the effects of viruses in the wild, farmed for food they are bred and killed at the same times so they dont get the virus out of the community.
It is noteworthy that track and trace one of the social againsts could be the need for the 14 days self-isolation , which unless accompanied by say 70% furlough paid by government people could be unwilling to risk employment income losses - more so in america where state support for those testing postive seems megre to non-existent. Are our governments serious about eliminating Covid-19 I cannot see how it is a disease that can be livid with.

[Big Kev]

Just announced on the BBC, what are the implications of this information though? Will the minority think it's now safe to do whatever they want?

Screenshot_20200619-112551_Metal Pro.jpg

[Whyperion]

see my comment on the Politics thread, and read between the lines on my earlier post.

With respect to the 3 Sisters Food Processing in Angelsey and now an Asda Supplier in Cleckheaton.

Copied from the BBC
"Why does coronavirus hit so many meat processing plants?

Analysis by David Shukman, science editor

Anywhere cold, damp and indoors is an ideal environment for the coronavirus to thrive.
It survives best on cool surfaces, especially if there's no dry breeze to get rid of the moisture or any ultraviolet light from the sun to kill it off.
Add to that the challenges of social distancing on a busy production line, together with loud machinery forcing staff to raise their voices.
Researchers know that situations where people sing - or have to shout - increases the chances of them projecting the virus to others nearby.
According to Prof Calum Semple, an infectious disease specialist at the University of Liverpool and an adviser to the government, meat processing plants can be "a perfect environment for the virus to persist on surfaces and in the air"."

The BBC Keeping Britain Fed showed a mix of additional shifts at the featured plant, and only a 24 hour weekly shut down for cleaning all the machinery.

This might also give some reasons for the places where the virus shows up in China and the USA. We may need to build more processing facilities with more time for cleaning, redunance and shifts.

[plaques]

Copied from the BBC
"Why does coronavirus hit so many meat processing plants?
Analysis by David Shukman, science editor
Anywhere cold, damp and indoors is an ideal environment for the coronavirus to thrive.

I said this weeks ago in one of my posts. Bloody obvious I'd say. Doesn't need a phd or a scientific investigation. We are told that in level 3 the virus is out there. So if you see it avoid it like the plague. Terrific I feel a lot more confident now.