POLITICS CORNER

[Travis]

Stanley, help me, I'm just a commom man. What does sycophantic eulogies and oblective assessment actally mean?.

[Whyperion]

Unfortunately the outpourings will last until well into next week until the massive funeral has been arranged. Lets see how the Tory government justifies the cost of that to the taxpayer ...... /quote]
William Hague said its all coming out of the 'rebate' negotiated by her from the EU. Funny I thought that things like European Social Fund payments were supposed to help deprived areas accross Europe.

... Norman Lamont was particularly obtuse. If he is right about Thatcherism how come it led to the results we still see today?

Apparently there is a an argument that the Thatcherism / Monetaryism was abandoned and therefore the full benefits of the economic policy were never seen.

Thatcher (and subsequent tories) , never really solved the problem of the UKs full and complete involvement in the EU nor were able to set a meaningful direction for what EU participatory membership could be, she also never solved ( though perhaps paved a way to working to a solution to ), the problems of Northern Ireland. Sorry its difficult to get the Obit out of the Politics ( or the politics out of the obituaries) when it comes to past prime ministers.

Two things I think rarely mentioned. The public spending / defence cuts initiated in the early Thatcher years led to the planned removal of the British Survey Ship to the South Atlantic - giving rise to the Argies considering that the Falklands / South Georgia were open house to them as the token defence had been removed. ( Short-Termism , typical of trying to run the country like a domestic household budget ). And the removal of some building regulations - particularly in respect of minimum room sizes in new build flats and houses, which although leading to increase in dwelling units , resulting in houses that are somewhat unlivable in , certainly compared to much of the remaining 1950s/60s (ex) council stock, Given that new-build today remains small footprint units , overpriced, there is little space within the houses to consume or hold many of the domestic appliances the shops are oft full of, which I think is reflected in the lower household spending of today , and the reliance on eating out / buying cheap and useless food. Oh - and with her chancellor , the single toolbox adjustment tool - with only one main aim - reducing ( or not increasing ) levels of the rate of income tax - this still remains a media fixation , leaving governments with no options other than to either fiddle with other taxes , (or reliefts , bands or benefits taxation) , or to increase socially regressive rates of VAT or to influence interest rates , all of which have led to great , and unnecessary pain.

[Stanley]

Kev, no need to apologise for common sense. Travis, try using a dictionary if big words bother you, that's what I do! I have to go to Webster many a time.
I note that many MPs took the sensible option and didn't attend the House yesterday.
The Eurozone seem to be trying a new tack to deal with the failing Mediterranean economies. Italy is the biggest problem and so the EU have moved the financial goalposts to ensure that Italy is complying. Much criticism of this and the general opinion seems to be that after trying innovation with Cyprus and realising that it was counter-productive they have run out of ideas. The only certainty is that overall, the EU performance is slipping back in the global league tables.

One general point about posts described as "aggressive bile". On man's meat is another's poison and that applies to many of the posts on this topic. The general attitude of the moderators is to allow everyone to go to hell in their own way and only intervene when the tone gets personal or too pointed. This applies to all posts.

[Thomo]

And I am not over fond of the prefix "Big"! Maybe Large would be a suitable substitute. And my thanks to the Member who sent me a lovely PM.

[hartley353]

I am going to stick my neck out and remind the members that this is a community site, and not a political platform, or a suitable place to air your grievances about someone who has died. In order to achieve something that affects "Barlick" I work every day with people from all political persuasions and beliefs, if you want to unload your aggressive bile, do it in your bath!!

Thomo my politics are known only to me and the ballot box. My posting concerns only one individual who did so much harm to the small communities you defend so vigourously, are my words bile, I don't think so just a reasonable response to the deification of a person who is not worthy.

[Thomo]

Then I am indeed fortunate that I was born into a community where there are no apparent long festering hatreds, and where most can put the past behind them, and move on. I have often thought that when I die, and should I get a second go in a few hundred years time, there are some issues that will still be "Rattling around". What happened in the past, happened, and cannot be altered, it also involved more than a single individual and if blame were to be apportioned, there would be a degree of guilt on all sides.

[hartley353]

Then I am indeed fortunate that I was born into a community where there are no apparent long festering hatreds, and where most can put the past behind them, and move on. I have often thought that when I die, and should I get a second go in a few hundred years time, there are some issues that will still be "Rattling around". What happened in the past, happened, and cannot be altered, it also involved more than a single individual and if blame were to be apportioned, there would be a degree of guilt on all sides.

Thatchers mistakes are not in the past, millions are still living with them, there is nothing festering about this, its here and its happening to you,moving on is not a choice for many their lives are blighted to the grave, and their children after them.

[Stanley]

EU watchers will have noted that Ireland and Portugal have been given an extra seven years to pay back the bail-out loans. This to lessen the possibility of them having to default. Cyprus has found that the bail-out agreed last Friday, €10 billion from the EU and €6 billion from internal sources is not enough. They need an extra €7 billion and the German bankers have turned them down. This means even higher percentages from the major investors, 60% is the estimated figure. What has made things worse is that the Cypriot government has realised that strict capital transfer regulations can't work as they stifle economic activity. It remains to be seen whether Cyprus can make the plan work. Barroso hits back at the US for criticising EU debt and deficit levels. He quite rightly points out that the US debt levels are higher. This looks like a little spat on the surface but it goes to the root of the global problem, unsupportable levels of debt in the major economies. Until this is addressed and rectified everyone is working under a handicap. Worth asking yourself where all the interest on this debt is going.
Here in the UK there is increasing criticism by parliamentary committees and statisticians about the use of statistics by government spokes-persons. The latest furore is over the 'revision' of the figures on the effects of the housing benefit cap particularly in London. It seems that either the figure was inflated in the first announcements or the problem wasn't as great as was anticipated. Questions are also being asked about the treatment of the employment figures used by IDS to 'prove' that the policy was working and driving recipients of benefit to get a job. I have to admit that I do not know the truth in all this (and doubt if anyone else does!) but it brings to mind Charles Webster's paper on 'Healthy or Hungry Thirties' in Rare Texts. When Dr Webster agreed to me transcribing and publishing his lecture he was very enthusiastic because as he said then, there was good evidence that the same manipulation of statistics was happening now and anything which drew attention to it was a good thing. Remember this is the man who was then the historian of the NHS, he knew what he was talking about. I think we are entitled so something better from our politicians.

[Thomo]

Thank you for letting me know whats happening to me. I now feel twice fortunate, having never hated anyone enough to wish to hurl abuse at their coffin.

[hartley353]

Thank you for letting me know whats happening to me. I now feel twice fortunate, having never hated anyone enough to wish to hurl abuse at their coffin.

Why should a coffin offer sanctuary, it contains the remains, the essence lives on eternally and is remembered.

[Nolic]

Gentlemen, can you both please refrain from posts that are likely to provoke the other. I think you have both made it clear where you stand. Thanks, Nolic.

[Thomo]

Quite right Nolic, and I do have much better things to do. The War Memorial Project, The Book and Animal Welfare, being just three. Farewell Manchester!

[hartley353]

We agree to differ, now silence must reign, Thank you nolic.

[Nolic]

I have deleted a post from another member that might have been provocative and re- ignited the above discussion. I have PM'd that person to explain. Nolic

[Stanley]

Good, I saw it and thought it might be a problem and had come back to do the same after giving it some thought.

[Stanley]

Some interesting views expressed this morning by even right-wing commentators as to whether the funeral is perhaps overblown. They fear that it will be seen as Tory Triumphalism. I am in a frenzy of indifference, just get it over and finished with.

[PanBiker]

Fortunately I have the get out of my grandson and CBeebies today so can avoid it!

[Stanley]

I had a day full of visitors....
Sorry to see that the Republicans have blocked new gun control measures in the US. This is a mistake, opposition is growing and it will damage their party.
IMF doles out the most miserable forecast so far for growth in the global economy. It's beginning to dawn on the markets that increasing use of QE is devaluation by the back door. Surprise surprise.....
At home, unemployment is rising even on the official figures and average wages since 2007 have risen 10% but official inflation has risen 20%. This official figure is of course nit right for the poorest as their income is mainly spent on the goods that have risen most in price. Then add the effacts of benefit cuts and you begin to get an idea of just how severe the fall in disposable incomes is. Until this is rectified GDP cannot have a sustained improvement.
Ever heard of the Reinhart-Rogoff study at Harvard on the effects of austerity on national budgets? No, neither had I. However it is one of the main economic arguments used to justify austerity as a way of curing debt crises. Have a look at this LINK to see how grave doubts have been voiced about the accuracy of the calculations. One of the main arguments for austerity seems to be flawed.....

[Stanley]

The Institute of Directors, not normally fans of Keynesian economics have warned the government that they see no signs of improvement and expect the growth in GDP to slip back even more if nothing is done to stimulate the economy. Ossie looks to be on a collision course with the IMF which is also advocating loosening austerity cuts. The sight of Japan throwing $1.5 trillion at their economy looks like a desperate move but what if it works? Funnily enough, and I know that this may surprise some people but in the long run Ossie and Dave may be right in that we have to scale everything back and take the pain to get the national indebtedness, including personal debt, back to a more sensible level. My problem is of course the way it is being done, they are starting at the wrong end with their cuts and the damage to poorer people is going to be enormous. We have seen the employment and income figures getting worse and the main cuts haven't bitten yet. Tin hats on Lads!

[hartley353]

Quantative easing in japan has caused their stock market to rise 30%, surprising in this educated world that throwing good money after bad is still treated as an adage by many. Japan is heading for a mighty fall, from whence did this faith in gambling come.

[Stanley]

The indices due out today aren't going to be good news. Basically a flat-lining economy and a sharp drop in disposable incomes. Ossie and Dave are going to come under increasing pressure. If they are right everyone else is wrong and they have no evidence of the former. Tin hats.....

[Stanley]

Some strange and not fully thought-through messages coming out of No!0. Yesterdays announcement that nurses should do a year of care in the home before entering their course has been derided by the Nurses union. My question is if it is appropriate for nurses wouldn't the same principle be useful for doctors and NHS managers? Today we have reports that Dave says the boss of Google shouldn't be a business adviser to government because of his company's attitude to tax avoidance. If he extended this principle to former accountants and bankers who supervised and allowed aggressive tax avoidance schemes he would lose most of his senior financial advisers sitting on government committees. It all smacks a bit of diversionary tactics as the latest borrowing figures and financial indices come out. Even the IMF says that the austerity programme is damaging the UK economy.
Our new archbishop of Canterbury says that we need extraordinary measures to get us out of the crisis. Remember he was in business. He's right and for a long while I have advocated regarding it as a war situation, forming a coalition government and stopping inter-party fighting. Time everyone worked together, dropped dogma and did what was economically necessary.

[Stanley]

Ossie assures us that all is going well and the government's policies of austerity are on track. Leaving aside global opinion and the IMF he has seen a further blow to his strategy this morning. The Co-operative Bank have withdrawn from the purchase of the Lloyd’s branches ordered by the EU competition rules and there is even talk of them withdrawing from banking altogether. A new CEO is about to take charge and the matter will be under review. Their assessment given as a reason for not going forward with the Lloyd's branches is that at the moment the climate in UK banking gives them no confidence.
At the same time HSBC announce that they are 'demising' 3,000 jobs. (LINK) They say that 3,000 will be 'impacted' by the changes. Why can't they use plain English and say that 3,000 jobs are in danger and the result will be either re-location or redundancy for the staff involved? Do they really think that using ridiculous euphemisms like this helps their case? Time for at least one sacking in the PR department I think.
It looks as though the GDP figures are going to 'prove' that we have narrowly avoided a triple dip recession. I think it's fairly certain that pressure has been exerted to ensure that the statistics are as optimistic as possible and wonder what tricks are being used to massage the figures. All right I'm a cynic but I do have the evidence of how this has been done in the past, see Charles Webster's lecture on 'Healthy or Hungry Thirties in Rare Texts. My cynicism could well be realism.

[hartley353]

The cynicism you feel is not misplaced Stanley, you can be pretty certain that our goverments have been misleading us for many years, One of the most easy to spot we see every time we shop. The illusion that there is no inflation, The price doesn't increase but the contents decrease,did manufacturers decide to do this or was their hand steered by government. Yesterday I bought some packs of wooden cladding 4 pieces to a pack price appeared little different to what I paid a year ago, when I dug out an old invoice ,there used to be 5 pieces to a pack.

[Stanley]

The magnifying glasses will be deployed in Downing Street today as the spin doctors look for the most minute trace of growth. This says it all really, regardless of whether we are technically in a triple dip depression or not, growth is flat-lining and this means that the assets are deteriorating. Forget the unemployment figures or how many jobs have been 'created' (probably the operative word.) the bottom line is that total wages are falling because many of these 'jobs' are part time and do not lift the recipients out of benefit. Total disposable income in the 85% percentile is falling and has been since 2009 and there is no sign of anything but further shrinkage as benefit cuts bite and inflation of essential goods, what the poor spend their money on, is much higher than the overall inflation figure. Increasingly, even right wing commentators are noting the lack of investment in industry. Cameron brings in another Old Etonian, Boris Johnson's brother, into Downing Street to head his policy wonks. Increasingly he is being forced by his back benchers to toe a strict Tory line ready for the general election. They are looking for a magic bullet.
In the EU the latest surveys of business confidence are depressing. There are no signs of any improvement and this is affecting investment and business confidence.
Tin hats Lads!