FORGOTTEN CORNERS

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 10 May 2018, 03:51

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Over the years stone steps wear like these have and in wet or frosty weather can be lethal. Our ancestors used their heads, the got a mason in to turn them so that the unworn bottom surface became the top and fill the void either with mortar or a stone insert. If you live in an old house with a stone doorstep have a look, you might find out that yours has been done.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Cathy » 10 May 2018, 07:25

Love seeing the wear of time and usage, a bit like Grandma's wooden kitchen board after years of food preparation.
A hand rail would be a good idea though.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Marilyn » 10 May 2018, 11:36

I so wish I had your memory of Grandma and the dent in her table Cathy.. I was just that little bit young I suppose.
(Sigh) such a shame...
I do recall visiting Colne Road as an adult and being overcome by emotion to the point of having trouble breathing. So there must have been some memory there. ( and I did remember the cobbles)

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 11 May 2018, 03:15

That's very touching Maz. Memory can be such a comfort.
Something I learned while doing the interviews for the LTP with the older end about times gone by was that almost all of them told me on first meeting them that they had a bad memory, full of forgotten corners! But as soon as I started the questions I triggered off long term forgotten memories and they were all surprised how much they could remember. A|t one point I suggested that the same techniques should be used as therapy in care homes. Hedley Bradshaw in Earby had zero short term memory but as soon as you triggered him he was eloquent about things long gone. I found the same thing with my mate David Moore after a stroke destroyed his short term memory completely. We all have forgotten corners.......
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Bodger » 11 May 2018, 07:24

Visiting my grandmother in Sheffield and being told to sit at the back of the room and be quiet, sitting on a a sofa stuffed with horse hair that was coming through the covering, in short trousers it was like sitting on thistles

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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 12 May 2018, 02:59

I remember those bristles as well Bodge.

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Newton was into wind power in the 1960s. In 1978 he had sold/given this windmill to Jack Grayson who lived on Havre Park. Jack was a bit of a character, he was a loom sweeper at Bancroft and lived on his own with a house full of cats. One day the police broke in because the neighbours alerted them to the fact Jack hadn't been seen and they were worried about him. When they broke in, the cats all shot out though the door and they found Jack laid dead and the cats had been eating him........

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Jack sweeping looms in better days.....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 13 May 2018, 05:22

I don't know why this came to mind but the lady who used to live at number two in the back street popped into my head. I never knew her name but she always got 'German Anna'. When I first moved in she called round to let me know that we had paid too much for the house, the last occupant had died of cancer and could she come to the house warming party. I asked her what she did for an encore.... I think she cleared houses or something like that and needless to say I kept away from her. A 'bit of a character'.
One snowy morning as I was going out in the dark with Big Jack I found her laid in the street in her night clothes covered with snow. I got her into the house, rugged her up, and called the ambulance. Give her her due, a few weeks later when she was back home she stopped me in the street and thanked me for looking after her, she said she had been told she would have not survived otherwise so I suppose that was a result!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 14 May 2018, 03:36

I haven't got it but I have seen an image of cattle and sheep being sold on Church Street many years ago. I don't know how often the sale tool place. Gisburn and many other towns had the same but every week. That would cause a bit of a stir today!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 15 May 2018, 05:27

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Here's a pic I did this morning. Let's not forget the effort that has gone into improving the small area in front of Foresters Buildings. The Copper Beech was already there but it was an inspired piece of design to install the semi-circular flower bed and its backing in the shape of the horizon over Whitemoor. A good advertisement aimed at anyone approaching the town from the Ribble Valley or Skipton.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 16 May 2018, 02:58

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I mentioned this a while ago. It's the back wall of what used to be David Hoyle's joinery shop in Bank Street which will shortly be vanishing as the site is developed. There is quite a drop there to Bank Street and I wonder what measures have been taken to stabilise the ground......Funny things can happen when old buildings are removed which have been functioning as revetments.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 17 May 2018, 05:24

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The squatter's hovel in Walmsgate in 1982 when the council were considering demolishing it and 'tidying' the site. This came to my notice and I pointed out to the council that it was acting as a revetment to the ground behind and they could perhaps rue taking it out. They took notice, investigated, and refurbished it instead. This preserved the foot path behind which is a remnant of the original direct route through Barlick via Philip Street from what used to be a ford where Gillians Beck crossed the road. Win win all round!
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 18 May 2018, 04:09

Thinking about revetments..... When there was a proposal to redevelop Butts Mill as a supermarket I asked an awkward question: Had anyone considered the effect of removing the mill from the massive cut back into the hill that had been made to build it? If I was living in the houses overlooking the mill I'd want some very strong reassurances and guarantees. It never happened of course and I've often wondered if my question had a bearing. It was legitimate, when the mill was built the hill was cut away and the spoil dumped up Calf Hall Lane filling in an old quarry and I suspect covering part of the old monastic site.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 19 May 2018, 05:36

One of the things that often strikes me as I walk up Butts in a morning from Valley Gardens is how sheltered it is. We know from the old trade directories that part of B&D's yard at the top end used to be a market garden supplying the shops in the town. True, it gets the sun late because of it being a valley and perhaps in winter it could be a frost trap but on the whole there are worst places in the town and I'll bet it was a good place to grow produce. Today it is flown in from all corners of the world, truly a forgotten corner.

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The 1892 map is admirable but doesn't identify the market gardens however you can see there is plenty of room for them.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 20 May 2018, 03:32

Something I have only just noticed on the above map. I knew that a house and a stable had been demolished on the gable end of 12 King Street to allow access between Brook Street and King Street but hadn't realised until now that there was a through way along the back of the houses into the top end of Newtown. Brook Street was the recognised town market place at the end of the 19th century of course, that's why over the years it has never been built on and is now a handy car park.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Nolic » 20 May 2018, 07:13

I have vague memories of their being a market on Brook Street in the very early 50's. Nolic
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by PanBiker » 20 May 2018, 20:09

I can remember the market there also in the mid to late 50's it was on the way up to my grandparents who lived on King Street
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 21 May 2018, 02:22

I didn't realise it survived so late. thanks for that.
At one time in the late 19th century there was also a market on the land now occupied by the Clinic in Butts. Then it became a skating rink called the Alhambra but was destroyed by fire in the 1930s.

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Notice Butts Mill chimney in the background.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 22 May 2018, 03:51

One of the outcomes from asking questions for the LTP was that I learned a lot of little known facts about the town. One item was a bit of forgotten history. Harold Duxbury told me that for some obscure reason, as Managing Director of the Calf Hall Shed Company he was responsible for collecting the rents for small pieces of land that used to be part of the Parrock Estate behind the old chapel in Walmsgate. The only problem was that he didn't know where to send the proceeds, he didn't know who the beneficial owner was. Before you ask I don't know what happened to the money but knowing Harold it would be dealt with honestly. I don't know what the position is now....
Later when I transcribed the CHSC Minute Books I found that when they bought the Parrock land there were all sorts of legal problems about who actually had rights to what, the Trustees of the Baptist Chapel never did have an absolutely clear title and this reverberated down the years. It's fascinating to think that there are still pieces of ground in the middle of the town that have a chequered history when it comes to proving ownership. A true forgotten corner!

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This is the corner in question.... and yes, it's where the Alhambra skating rink was.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 23 May 2018, 03:20

Another forgotten corner I found was the ownership of many shares in the Calf Hall Shed Company. In the days before easy access to banks many families bought a couple of shares in the firm they worked for and they became family heirlooms. Victor Hedges (see LTP) who was a partner in Proctor and Proctor at Burnley told me that in the latter days of the company the number of these small shareholders was a problem as it cost more in time, effort and postage to send out the annual dividend than the payment was worth. When they finally wound the CHSC up the ownership of many of these shares was lost and Malcolm Sterratt on Church Street had the job of dealing with these residual owners for many years. I don't know what the dénouement was.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 24 May 2018, 03:53

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The Clinic in Butts in 1982, unchanged today. I often wonder whether there was an uncomplicated title to this land and the area adjacent inside the Carlson perimeter fence. That used to be a bowling green for the Conservative Club and Ernie Roberts told me that in the inter-war years the Con Club used to have an annual 'sizzle' there and all the kids could go and have a free meal. I get the feeling that under wartime Emergency Powers the title to the land was sorted as Butts was developed by the Ministry of Aircraft Production (MAP) for a shadow factory. If you want to learn more about that read the Calf Hall Shed Company minutes for the war years. What we forget these days is how efficient the civil service administration of the war effort was in the run up to war and during the war itself. It was a good example of how well governance and the state can function if the goals are clear and agreed. This started well before the war behind the scenes in that the MAP were seeking out suitable places for shadow factories long before the war started.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 25 May 2018, 03:18

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Here's another example. Poorbones on Manchester Road. Once used as a yard for knapping road stone by people on Outdoor Relief from Skipton Workhouse it has been derelict for 60 years to my knowledge. I have agitated over the years for the local council to take it over as a site of heritage interest. I wouldn't mind betting that Skipton Hospital has the title to it.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 26 May 2018, 03:49

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This is the far SW corner of the Manor of Barnoldswick. This standing stone behind Stanistone Cottage is the one that gives Standing Stone Gate its name and is an ancient shire boundary marker. If you look carefully you can see that this was once the line of the medieval road across to Blacko but when Whitemoor Reservoir was built by the canal company in about 1840 the road was realigned on its present day line. The land between this old road and the new one is overgrown and I'll lay a small bet is another of the bits of land to which clear title has been lost. I wonder if it's protected in any way? This is the sort of priceless relic that sinks into obscurity and eventually is lost.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 27 May 2018, 03:46

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If only old stones could speak! Here are two on Letcliffe that would have a tale to tell...... I'd guess at least as old as the standing stone yesterday.
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 28 May 2018, 04:13

History is in plain sight in Barlick but we get so used to living with it that it can become invisible.

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Here's a pic of Mitchell Terrace on Manchester Road which of course was originally Barnoldswick Lane. It's called Mitchell Terrace because the builders were the Mitchells who originally started and ran what was later Clough Mill across the road, now of course long gone. How many people recognise that as they pass? Another little thing, have you ever wondered why there is no footpath on that side of the road until you get further up the hill? If you read Atkinson's 'Old Barlick' (on the site in rare texts) you'll find that this puzzled him as well over 100 years ago. He implies that it was a mistake on the part of the Local Board/BUDC.
Walk further up and on the right, before Castle View you can walk on the original elevated foot path with a dry stone wall revetment, all this on a short stretch of road passed thousands of times a day and yet invisible history.....
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Re: FORGOTTEN CORNERS

Post by Stanley » 29 May 2018, 05:14

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Further up Manchester Road in 2002. Wild's garage is being demolished. For many years Wild Brothers ran a fleet of wagons which specialised in container transport in the latter years and of course the coaches, 'Travel with Wild's for Miles of Smiles'. With the increase in size of wagons it was decided not to re-invest in new premises and a new fleet but to liquidate.

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A year later in 2003 demolition was almost complete. An important bit of history had gone....

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Some of the drivers in 1962.
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