Family Matters

[Sue]

All the problems I had with mum and da could be put down to admin and communication failure. Hope it resolves itself qickly

[Tizer]

Thanks for your concern Sue. Unfortunately it looks like being a long wait as the ward is now closed completely. I've been trying to phone the ward to check on my father but couldn't get through. In the end I phoned his GP's surgery and spoke to the secretary who is very helpful. She managed to get through to the ward and they told her that he is fine, doesn't have the virus but transfers were stopped as soon as the outbreak started, so he's stuck there now and we can't visit him. Apparently it could be more than a week before he gets a transfer to the local hospital.

[Stanley]

Panorama last night confirmed all we have been saying above. No surprise to dedicated Private Eye readers or fans of Doctor Phil Hammond, they have been addressing these matters for years.

[Marilyn]

Terrible isn't it? Like being stuck in an airport or something....medical detention!

[EileenDavid]

I can only agree with lack of communication. As I have advised about my torn retina, the optician told me to go to A & E at the Manchester Royal Eye Hospital as if I went to the hospitals in my trust they couldn't perform the surgery and would refer me to the MRE. Which could have taken weeks and by sitting in A & E for two hours saved my sight in the left eye as they operated the same day. Why do we have these trusts when they can't give a descent service. It's time hospitals got back to basics with a Matron in control, most of these bugs are caused by uncleanliness . Our Harry has just started studying Biochemistry at Sheffield wants to do medical research. His first project was researching e coli and next he is going onto MRSA, maybe I should ask him about norovirus the winter most common stomach bug in the UK to be put on the curriclium. If they know this why can't they prevent it? Eileen

[Tizer]

The recent experiences with my dad and my in-laws, as you know, has confirmed for me the communication and coordination problems in the NHS but the norovirus incident set me thinking and reading and I believe the underlying problem with norovirus lies outside in the community, not in the hospitals. The hospitals are vulnerable and easily affected due to their size, the weakened immune systems of their patients, the close contact between people, and the constant stream of visitors passing through as well as patients coming in and out. Hospitals are a soft target for the newspapers, and especially those who like to do down the NHS. Norovirus causes similar outbreaks in schools but we hear less about them. It's notorious on cruise ships and has affected military barracks.

Norovirus is a virus not bacteria and the simple structure of viruses makes them more resistant to the usual disinfectants. Hand gels aren't much use against norovirus and killing it needs a good scrub in very hot water with soap and a brush, but try getting hospital visitors to do that - many of them have probably never scrubbed their hands vigorously with soap and water in their life. I can vouch for the fact that there are still men who use public toilets and walk out without washing their hands - and I'm not talking about just after a pee! Hygiene in the community is not good enough and until we can get that right there will be outbreaks of norovirus in hospitals, schools etc.

Norovirus spreads from person to person through several routes and someone who has had the virus and recovered can still pass it on at least two days after losing the symptoms. Direct contact can pass it on, such as shaking hands and kissing, and indirect such as door handles, supermarket trolley handles, handrails...and just think of all the objects picked up and put down again in shops. The characteristic projectile vomiting during an infection leaves an aerosol of virus particles in the air and the violent diarrhoea does the same in WCs. It can also be caught through contaminated food such as oysters and vegetables that have been in contact with sewage-contaminated water - this happens in countries where sewage treatment is poor and it gets into farmers' irrigation channels and into the oyster beds.

The norovirus gets worse at this time of year because we pack together in shops and pubs, there is more physical contact as we approach the festive season, and we do more shopping and visiting. There is another peak in summer due to holidays, which bring similar opportunities for the virus. Some people will say we didn't suffer this problem in the old days and that it's only affecting us now because we're not exposing ourselves to enough dirt etc. Sorry but I can't agree with that - bacterial and viral strains come and go and they're the masters of adaptation. We've been able to distinguish norovirus from other bugs since 1968 and it's changing all the time. We talk about it as if it's one single entity and that if we get exposed to it we'll be resistant in the future but that's not so. It's a cluster of many strains and they're constantly changing, a bit like the common cold virus, so even if we became immune to one strain there are others out there now that can get us - and new ones in the pipeline.

So, yes, the hospitals must be rigorous with their hygiene but let's not put too much blame on them. They're doing a lot more to maintain hygiene than we see in the world outside. Oh, and the wards at Exeter have matrons but norovirus shows no respect, not even for a Hattie Jaques look-alike!

[Stanley]

Lovely, well-informed post. We are so lucky to have people on the site who can speak with authority and be believed. I have always believed that the more time you spend in your own environment where any contamination is your own, the safer you are. I live quite a solitary life and don't mix with large crowds. Unwittingly, I might be doing a pretty good job of protecting my system against outside attack.
How's your Dad doing Tiz? Apart from being in preventative detention!

[Tripps]

Having been affected by Novovirus twice in recent years, I will say it is amazingly infectious. In addition to physical contact with people and surfaces, I'd say from my experience, that just being near someone who is infectious is enough to transmit the virus. I'll spare you the details, but the only good thing about it, is that it doesn't last too long.

[PanBiker]

Sally and myself would like to thank all the friends on One Guy who have offered their condolences and kind words of support on the loss of our eldest son Daniel. We have some way to go yet as we do not yet know the circumstance of Dan's death. We know how he died and are comforted in the fact that he did not suffer in any way. We are also thankful that the young lady who was involved in the other vehicle was discharged from hospital after a short stay. The collision must have been traumatic for her, she and her father have sent their condolences to us via the police family liaison officer who has been allocated to us.

PC 97 Sharon Coldrick has been an angel in disguise to us during this very difficult time. I cannot praise the professionalism coupled with compassion that she has shown to Sally, myself, and Dan's elder sister Carla and younger brother Jack. Sharon met us in Stratford when we had to go down to formerly identify Dan. She helped us through the process with the utmost care. The following day she picked us up and took us to the location of the accident and made sure we were safe whilst laying a floral tribute. She is available to us at any-time 24 hours a day if there is anything we need to know and will give us the facts as they become known.

An inquest has been opened into Dan's death and adjourned. This allowed the coroner to issue an interim death certificate so the we could bring Dan home and sort out his funeral arrangements. The inquest will be at sometime in the New Year when the Warwickshire Police road traffic collision department have made their report to the coroners department and any witness information that may come to light can be presented. We will have all the information prior to attending the inquest so there will be no revelations on the day other than the final pronouncement of the coroner. We have been told that we will have a choice of dates for the inquest once all the information is available.

I cannot put into words what we have been through since the knock on the door in the early hours of the 19th November. It has however been helped by the many friends and family members alike that have come to our aid, it is very much appreciated. We find that talking about it helps. We had 32 years with Dan, years that we will never forget. We now have his four year old daughter Ruby to look out for, if she turns out anything like her dad she will be OK.

[Marilyn]

So glad you are getting the care and support you need at this difficult time.
Our thoughts are with you too.

[Wendyf]

I hope you don't have to wait too long for the inquest Ian. How is your younger son coping?

[PanBiker]

Both Carla and Jack have been fantastic, they are obviously hurting but have different diversions to keep them busy. Carla has two young children of her own and only works 3 days in school. She is going back for the first time next week. All the kids in her class know what has happened so she wanted to be ready for the inevitable questions that may arise. When she goes back there will only be 6 days left until the Christmas break, curriculum has more or less finished for the term so it will be a case of engaging games and tasks for the 30 kids in her class.
Jack went back to work last week, he house shares with two other mates in Earby and did not want to be in the house on his own while they were at work. He works in IT support for Primary Schools over in Bradford. He has five or six schools that he looks after and spends full days in each one. He is usually on his own but he has been allocated another technician to shadow him for the time being. Jack has some really good mates that are keeping an eye on him as well.
We still see them as our kids of course but Carla is 34 and Jack turned 26 in last April. We are very proud of both of them, they both stepped up when we were all in our darkest hour. Carla organised our initial Stay in Stratford and Jack took on the liaison role with the Police and had absolutely no hesitation in stepping forward for the official identification of his brother. It's another thing to take comfort from in that they are strong enough to shoulder the responsibility when push comes to shove.

[Big Kev]

Probably the hardest thing a parent would ever have to deal with. Be strong, and patient.

[EileenDavid]

It's good to have family. Glad to hear you are all coping it's surprising how strong people are when they need to be . My mother outlived 3 of her children but non in your tragic circumstances Eileen

[Tizer]

Ian, I'm glad to hear you had good service from PC Sharon. I'm amazed by the patience and sympathy shown by so many NHS staff in dealing with the troubles of my father and Mrs Tiz's parents.

Stanley, thanks for asking about my father. He's physically as sound as a bell but still a bit too confused to go home, so they're holding onto him to try and get some improvement. Unfortunately the norovirus outbreak at the hospital has stopped us visiting him - that and the floods have meant we haven't seen him for two weeks now and he's been in nearly three weeks. Yesterday Mrs Tiz's father fell over - and knocked her mother over, banging her head. The carer happened to be there and had to send for an ambulance. Blood everywhere. They've been in overnight, patched up and are now back at home. You wouldn't believe (well, maybe you would) the number of phone calls in the last 24 hours trying to sort them out.

I posted a longer version of all this here yesterday, together with comments in reply to Tripps about norovirus, but the post seems to have disappeared. Strange.

[Marilyn]

OMG! ( Mrs Tiz's father fell over, knocking over her Mum and both have been in hospital?)
When will it end for you two?
Life must be so stressful for you both at present...
Time to buy a lottery ticket I think. Something good is due to you folk!

[EileenDavid]

Tiz life can only get better for you and Mrs Tiz you have had more than your share of bad luck. Hope all are well soon Eileen

[Tizer]

Thanks for your kind thoughts. We are lucky in other ways...and at least we've recently retired, otherwise it could have been more stressful! And Panbiker's troubles put ours into perspective.

[Moh]

The diappearing post Tiz. is down to the lights!!!!

[Moh]

The disappearing post Tiz. is down to the lights!!!!

[PanBiker]

Thanks for your kind thoughts. We are lucky in other ways...and at least we've recently retired, otherwise it could have been more stressful! And Panbiker's troubles put ours into perspective.

We both seem to have a plateful at the moment Peter. I hope your dad goes on OK and Mrs Tiz's mum and dad as well. It all seems to come at once some times.

We are going down to see Ruby in her school nativity, she is an angel (we already knew that) with a speaking part as well! Good job she is only four, she does not know that we will be there, a lovely diversion for us although probably tearful.

[Wendyf]

I've never been to a school nativity play that wasn't tearful Ian, even in the happiest of circumstances.....I'm tearful just thinking about you going to see Ruby being an angel. I hope you will be able to bring a picture of her to show us.

[PanBiker]

Not sure what the school regs are on taking pictures, we shall see. Having worked in school it is generally accepted that you do not marry a name with a photo, especially with younger children.

[Wendyf]

Sorry, I'd forgotten about that.

[Stanley]

It all shows how luicky I have been, apart from Harry, a sheltered life!