BARNOLDSWICK WAR MEMORIAL RE-DEDICATION

[Tizer]

Thomo, don't let anyone spoil your big project, you've got so much momentum now that it should sweep away any dissenters!

Regarding the blue reconnaissance Spitfire, that reminds me of one of `Johnny' Kent's stories. In the early days of the war in France he was flying one of the first of this breed, with no armament and no armour but cameras instead. On his way back from enemy air space he saw a group of Bf109s ahead blocking his path so he deliberately flew straight into them. They scattered and left him alone, thinking he must be an ace fighter pilot to be flying a bright blue aeroplane! Of course, their assumption turned out to be correct, as he proved his worth throughout the war.

[PanBiker]

I will catch up with you over the weekend on the land line Thomo. At the end of the day our War Memorial was raised by public subscription from the people of Barnoldswick. It belongs to no one but the community. It may be in the care of some supposed higher authority but that is not the point. The memorial and what it represents should transcend all political affiliations and County loyalties. We can only run with those that have had the grace to reply and support what we are trying to achieve. As Tizer says above we have a certain amount of momentum here which should hold us in good stead.

[Thomo]

This is possibly where it all kicked off again:-

Wondered if you could answer a couple of questions with regards to this, as I would like to feature the decision online:

Why did the town decide to award the Freedom of Barnoldswick to the Yorkshire Regiment?
It may seem odd to those who don’t know the area that a Lancashire town is giving the award to a Yorkshire Regiment. Could you explain the links between the town and the regiment?

Thanks

Chris Long

Broadcast Journalist

BBC News Online - North West.

A full and detailed explanation has been given by the Chairman of the town council.
This is how it was reported online yesterday:=

Barnoldswick votes to honour Yorkshire Regiment. A council has decided to award the freedom of a Lancashire town to Yorkshire soldiers.The honour will be conferred at the rededication of the town's war memorial

Barnoldswick Town Council voted to award the honorary freedom to the Yorkshire Regiment on Thursday.

The town falls under the jurisdiction of Pendle Borough Council, but was historically part of Yorkshire.

Council chairman Ken Hartley said the award was not an attempt to "restart the War of the Roses, just a desire to recognise our heritage".

The honour will be conferred on the regiment at a ceremony in September, which will also see the rededication of the town's war memorial after 46 additional names were added.

Mr Hartley said that of the 317 names which would now be on the memorial, 126 were associated with the Yorkshire Regiment.

The regiment was formed in 2006 by the amalgamation of the Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire, the Green Howards, The Duke of Wellington's Regiment and associated army reserve units.

He said most of the names were from WWI, when Barnoldswick was a "rural district council and not part of Pendle".

"The Duke of Wellington's Regiment had recruiting offices in Earby, Barnoldswick and Colne and had great success in recruiting our own local townsfolk," Mr Hartley said.

"Indeed, the 6th Battalion The Duke of Wellington's Regiment led the 1919 WWI Victory Parade in Barnoldswick."

[Tardis]

...is under attack from Lancashire. Pendle Council, Lancashire Constabulary, The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment, the BBC and others, some political. A man who has worked very hard for this event has again been called into question, accused of trying to re-start the war of the roses!!

Name, names. It isn't a time or event to be getting political, by anyone! But all those variables should have been included in any assessment before political people became directly involved; nor for an over excessive zeal in bureaurcracy.

I could understand if the police have safety concerns, but any parade needs the OK of the police. It normally takes one meeting to sort out, then you have the 'nod' to close roads etc.

Please outline what Pendle and Lancashire's objections are. They do have jurisdiction over litter, noise, roads etc and they do like to be consulted, if only to say 'OK'. Jumping through their hoops is normal. If you want these proceedures to be changed then ask your councillors, that's what they are elected for.

It was quite an eye opener when I had to do the University Rag Parade and we had 40 curtain siders, flat backs and low loaders plus the extra vehicles. I dare say it has got more paper intensive since then, but waving insurance certificates and 'permissions' used to work wonders. We did it without any councillor involvement because it is simple, although a sometimes frustrating process.

The Ridings haven't been abolished

Historically 'we' fought with the Lancastrian rose against the Yorkists, but both Dukes were southerners, so take your pick

I think that we're pragmatic enough to enjoy the best bits of both sides of the 'burearcrat's pencil drawn' border

At the end of the day, it is about Barnoldswick, the people who made the ultimate sacrifice, and not about political dividing lines.

[Tardis]

This is possibly where it all kicked off again:-

BBC News Online - North West.

I think the issue may be a simple one of the BBC not understanding, but also being the "BBC"

[Thomo]

This is not about naming names, unless they are to be added to the Memorial. Sadly when an event such as this one is being planned, whoever is at the forefront of the planning can easily become a target for anyone who revels in being in the limelight, but for whatever reason, feels to be excluded, instead of joining in and making a useful contribution, they tend to pull the other way. Eighteen months ago when I asked someone what they thought of the idea of adding the missing names to the Memorial, the reply was "A complete waste of time, nobody cares anymore", and this was a Councillor. But enough of that! Of course the Police have been consulted, mainly on two counts, 1. They will be providing the rolling road block, and 2. They have been asked if they could provide the lead for the parade, preferably two mounted officers on horseback, or two motorcycle outriders, or a car with the blue lights flashing. Due to the Military involvement, a form needs to be sent to London for approval, where it may well stay at the bottom of someone's in-tray for an indefinite period. Also it could trigger a need for a security sweep of the parade route, frankly the idea of an attack on a body of Soldiers who may well have bayonets fixed is somewhat bizzare, but these things happen. The Police have been aware of our plans for some time and could have laid this before us earlier. I am not aware of what is upsetting Pendle Council as I was not a party to it, but I do know that they wish to speak with the fellow BWMG member who also happens to be the Chairman of the town Council, whilst being reluctant to state a date, place or time!. My part in all of this was originally research, and then due to my interest in the project and certain specific experience and knowledge, other tasks came my way, this was not a problem. Someone had to come up with a design for the plaques and I was quite happy to work with the Borough Engineers and others to get it all together. After the default of the original stone mason, six months were lost, but we all pulled together and got it all back on track. And this is what it is all about, working together, sharing ideas and overcoming pitfalls, this we will continue to do. It was recommended that we give this event a wide press and media coverage for maximum impact and interest, yet even this can cause problems by attracting unwanted visits by fringe groups with their own agenda's. But it has to be done, and so I will post here the information that is to be sent out to the Craven Herald, Yorkshire post, Telegraph and Argus, the areas TV Centres, the press in the Whitby area and others still to contacted, below is the information draft, this can be adjusted to suit specific requirements:-

There is to be a re-dedication Ceremony for the War Memorial in the town of Barnoldswick following the addition of 46 names, 34 from WW1 and 12 from WW2, the research for the missing names began in November 2011 after it became clear that more Servicemen and Women from the town had lost their lives than were recorded on the Memorial, at that time the Barnoldswick War Memorial Group, BWMG, was formed, tasked with the research and working with the town council to achieve a satisfactory conclusion. The War Memorial area has been refurbished and a new entrance created, this will become the New Memorial Area. Each of the two walls flanking the new entrance will have a granite plaque inset into them, the Western plaque will bear the additional names from WW1, opposite on the Eastern plaque and reading from left to right, there will be a panel in memory of the 12 men who lost their lives on October the 30th 1914 when the Hospital Ship, HMHS Rohilla struck rocks near Whitby at night and in severe weather, the 12 were all from Barnoldswick and were members of the Royal Navy Sick Berth Reserve and the local St. John Ambulance Brigade, the centre panels will bear the Additional names from WW2, and the left hand panel will carry the re-dedication details. This event will take place in the afternoon of Sunday the 8th of September 2013.

At the time of both World Wars, Barnoldswick was in the West Riding of Yorkshire, of the 319 Service Personnel who died in WW1, 123 were from the Regiments that were to become the present day Yorkshire Regiment, it was therefore decided that for historic reasons to invite that Regiment to take part in the re-dedication event, this they have agreed to do. On Wednesday the 7th of August, at a special meeting of the town council, it was proposed that the Honorary Freedom of the Town of Barnoldswick be given to the Yorkshire Regiment, the motion was passed with full support. In 1974 there was a boundary change, this placed Barnoldswick in the Pendle District of East Lancashire for administrative purposes, the 2013 Yorkshire Boundary Map shows that it is still within the boundary of that county. Sadly, we are now under pressure from within Lancashire from they who do not appear to understand this towns historic links with Yorkshire. The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment were made aware of what we are doing at the outset, they would still be welcome and already have the Freedom of the Borough of Pendle, our towns Cadet force are from the Duke of Lancaster's and they will be taking part, mounting the Colour Guard for the Royal British Legion. This is not the time for cross border rivalries or Political objections, we have worked with all parties and beliefs to make this event special and successful. In WW1, about one third of the male population of Barnoldswick were eligible for Service, for age and health reasons, one third of these did not return home, a heavy price for a small town.

The re-dedication will be a part of the Barnoldswick Heritage weekend, and in order to make the event a bit more interesting, invitations have gone out to groups from both sides of the border to attend, the Royal British Legion, Veterans, Cadets, Sea Scouts and ex Service Associations being on the list. In the Morning, weather permitting, the Spitfire MK XIX owned by Rolls Royce, (who also have historic connections with the town), is set to circle the town en route from Scotland to its base in the East Midlands. The Colonel in Chief of the Yorkshire Regiment, His Royal Highness the Duke of York has been asked if he would do us the honour of writing a short message to be read out at the ceremony. But this event is not about us, who or where we are, it is about they who gave all on our behalf, and anyone who is interested and wishes to join us here in Barnoldswick will be made most welcome.

[Thomo]

Thank you Gentlemen. Copies of the draft have now gone to:- The Craven Herald, The Yorkshire Post, The Telegraph and Argus, The Lancashire Telegraph, The Whitby Gazette, Calendar and Look North, also the local MP. Others will follow when I have had time to think. "Vertutis Fortuna Comes". or something like that!

[Tardis]

I would recommend finding the officer's name at Pendle and phoning them up, you'll soon discover if the issue is with the Cllr or the actual event or complete hokum.

and yes, the police tend to be reactive rather than pro-active once they start to think about the event. Must have all those boxes ticked. Just process, that is all, once the great bureaurcracy is roused

[Thomo]

That's not up to me Tardis. Other media now mailed are, The Halifax Courier, The Lancaster Guardian and the Keighley News, a copy has also gone to the Dukes Museum at Halifax. An interesting contact this morning was from a Doctor who's Grandfathers name is on the Memorial "R H Heys" , this came about as a result of the BBC online News Coverage, I have sent him all of the info I have on his Grandfather.

[Thomo]

Last week my ten year old Union Flag out on its makeshift flagpole in the front garden, was becoming distressed, I also decided that it was time for a change, and bought a White Ensign. This has been the flag of the Royal Navy since 1707. Technically I should get permission to fly this, but what the hell, my flag, my garden and six generations of my family have served under it, including me.
Here it is:-

[Tardis]

That's not up to me Tardis.

I'll do it if you want to PM me the Pendle Officer's name

Other media now mailed are, The Halifax Courier, The Lancaster Guardian and the Keighley News, a copy has also gone to the Dukes Museum at Halifax.

I saw the write up in the Lancashire Telegraph which had your quotes in the story

[Thomo]

Better news this morning. First and foremost is that the situation is once more under control and second, an e/mail from Lt. Pask at Burnley Sea Cadets showing their interest and asking for further details, these I will send this morning. The Craven Herald will be publishing a piece about the event this week and I had a call from their local reporter yesterday. Oddly, I had a call on Sunday afternoon from the Lancashire Telegraph reporter, before I sent them the draft! it will be interesting to see what they have put out! It would be helpful if the press would stick with printing what they are told or given, but that is not what they often do, they cannot resist "Tweaking" it a bit. That's the second time that the Telegraph have contacted me out of the blue, this I view with a good deal of suspicion!! I have been asked to post an open invitation on this site, to anyone who may have connections with the names that are to be added to the memorial, so the next job is to find the birthplace of each one, these will appear in the new topic later.

[Tardis]

Lancashire Telegraph link:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/ne ... t/?ref=twt

[Thomo]

I am happy with that, let us now hope that there will be no more "toys thrown out of the pram"

[Thomo]

It would appear that we are now back on track, and have now got the Police on board, we may get our Mounted Officers after all. There has not been any media or press response yet from those contacted, other than the Craven Herald and Lancashire Telegraph, the same applies to the Duke of York. I will keep on banging away at them until told to sod off.

[Tardis]

There is a piece in the Craven Herald

A meeting with Mr Mousdale (Deputy Chief Officer of Pendle Council) sounds quite serious, simply because of a lack of formal communication, nothing political about that

[Thomo]

"YES" the worry is behind us, and "YES" we now have the support and backing of Pendle Council, we can finally go ahead and plan this event without further interference or worry, that is of course unless we have cancelations from those invited to participate, and of course it could well rain a lot. So no more being called to answer for the planning and content, its onwards and upwards. "Bring it on"! There is still much to do, groups and individuals to contact, awaiting responses is still the hardest part of that. We have many people to thank for their interest and support, this we will do in due course, or better still, personally on the day. It has been a little difficult trying to let you all know what is happening without upsetting anyone, and I am not a diplomat or heavily involved in local politics, just an old fashioned Barlicker, and there's "Nowt Wrong wi that". And So. If any of you have any ideas that would add a bit extra to the forthcoming event, please feel free to post them here, and, "Thank you Pendle Council".

[Thomo]

Confirmation this morning that we now have our two Mounted Officers, 3 dress options were given 1. High Visibility, 2. Standard Tunic Dress and 3. Full Ceremonial with plumed helmets etc. As there will be plenty of colour immediately behind them, option 2 has been chosen, smart and efficient. Its beginning to come together nicely now, and I slept a bit easier last night, now back to work!

[Thomo]

Following a telecon this morning with Colin Brittain, another attempt will be made to get the William Riley here before the end of this month, he will also be passing the news info details to the Whitby Gazette tomorrow. Time for the midday tot!

[PanBiker]

That sounds promising Thomo as does the mounted officers and the backing of PBC. With my dad's long association with the Legion and SSAFA including his service as standard bearer (twice at the Festival of Remembrance at the Albert Hall during his stint), I am debating whether or not to wear his service medals and award. If I do I will have to get new ribbons for them. I have looked at a few companies that can do this work and turn them round in a few days, I still have time to get them done.

[Thomo]

Wear them Ian, and with pride. I also have a problem as my medals, Silver Jubilee and RN long service and good conduct, were left behind on Anglesey together with my uniforms, and appear to have vanished. I am going to get new mounted ribbons and there are several options under "Medal Ribbons" online. A wreath has been ordered for BWMG, how would you feel about carrying is it in the procession? 3 weeks to go, I hope the weather improves a bit!

[Tardis]

On the B&E website, down in the comments:

http://www.pendletoday.co.uk/news/local ... -1-5937527

There is an error on the article in the comment about the Regiments that make up the Yorkshire Regiment. The Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry is not one of them.

In 1881, during the Childers reforms of the army, the 51st King's Own Light Infantry was renamed as the '1st Battalion, The King's Own Light Infantry (South Yorkshire Regiment).' The '105th Regiment of Foot (Madras Light Infantry)' was amalgamated with the regiment to become its 2nd Battalion. In 1897 the regimental title was changed to 'The King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry),' and in 1921 renamed to 'The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.' In 1968 it ceased to exist and became the 5th Battalion of 'The Rifles'

[Thomo]

"Well Shiver me timbers and blow me down" If that were true. it makes not one iota of difference, as the majority of men who died from this town were still from the constituent Regiments that make up the current Yorkshire Regiment, and they consider the KOYLI to be one of them. We are trying to plan an event, and not re-write history. I have ordered my ribbon bars today from Bigbury Mint, Ian I think that you will find that they have anything you need.

[Thomo]

Someone is awake and on the ball, Wikipedia's page on the Yorkshire Regiment has been amended to include this:-

"On Sunday 8 September 2013 the regiment will be given the Freedom of Barnoldswick, in Lancashire during a rededication ceremony of the town War Memorial, when 46 new names from the two world wars will be added. prior to the 1974 provisions of the Local Government Act 1972 Barnoldswick was part of the West Riding of Yorkshire".

We now know that we have the Regimental Band and 30 Soldiers from the 4th Battalion, and that the Senior Officer who will be taking the Salute is to the be the CO of the Regiment. The Parade Marshall will Sgt. Major Lynden Robinson whom I have already met, a very imposing and "colourful" Gentleman. Also attending will be other groups of the Royal British Legion with their standards, from areas contacted by the Regiment.

The Regimental Band:-

[Thomo]

When working on an event such as this one, and due to our location in what may appear to be "No mans land" one begins to realise just how complicated it can become. A recently asked question was "is the Lord Lieutenant coming"? which immediately poses the question of which one! this opens 3 options: 1. Lancashire. 2. Yorkshire. or 3. Both! Another problem arises when asked "Who is coming" Many individuals and groups have been invited, and in this age of swift communication options, I am frankly appalled at the apparent reluctance to even bother to reply, a simple yes or no would suffice. Having had no reply from the Dukes of York's Private Secretary, I have written direct to the Duke, this has gone 1st class recorded delivery and may well be followed shortly by a similar letter to her Majesty! We did however get a "Good Luck" e/mail this morning from an old Barlicker now living in Canada/Jamaica.