Schools

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Sue
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Schools

Post by Sue » 01 Mar 2019, 16:54

John Widdup was born on the Butts in 1870 and lived there until about 1890. Where would he have gone to school and is the school still there
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Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 02 Mar 2019, 03:54

I've had a furtle Sue.... You have a choice depending on what age he started school, I can give you the chronology.
Up to 1876 what became the Pigeon Club in Butts was the National School.

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Here it is in 1982.

In 1874 Billycock Bracewell built what became known as the Brick school in Fountain Street.

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It opened in 1875 as a school and all the pupils from the school in Butts were transferred there in 1876. Later, when the Wesleyan School was built in Rainhall Road the girls were transferred there and the Brick School became boys only. In 1885 when Bracewell died the Fountain Street school closed and became the Liberal Club, having later roles as a joiner's shop and Builder's merchants, The Rover Company may have used it as a social club but around 1950 George Ashby bought it as a club for the Ouzledale workers. It closed in 2001 and was sold for £85,000 and has now reverted to being a private infant school. There is more information in both Atkinson and Warner, both on the site in rare texts.
Bear in mind the Rev. Milner's ploy of building what became St James' on church Street as a school so he could obtain funding more easily..... Atkinson is the source for that. This would be about the same time. If Widdup's family were chapel I'd go for National and Brick schools, if CofE look to St James'.
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Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 02 Mar 2019, 07:36

Thanks so much Stanley, I believe they were Chapel, many cousins and other descendants certainly were. I am at last getting my head round my Widdup notes and hope to write another book like my Maylard one.


I was planning on doing a section on Education. I know he completed his education in the 1890 s at Burnley Mechanics. Would he have left school at 14. In the 1881 census at age 11 he was working in the mills but I think you explained to me once that it would have been a half day only. Have you any idea what his political influences would have been in the 1880s
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Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 02 Mar 2019, 08:50

Sue, it's a mistake to assume that the passing of Forster's Education Act in 1870 introduced standards that were automatically applied country wide, on of the provisions was to give local school boards autonomy. So there is no definitive answer. Half timing was common and stemmed from exceptions granted to agricultural areas in the Act but had been common before the Act. The evidence I have from people like Billy Brooks is that children as young as nine were allowed to go half time if they had an acceptable educational standard but that was a moveable feast, the school board was aware that the children's earnings were essential to the family wage.
My mother Mary Challenger was born in 1905 in Dukinfield and she told me she was half timing when she reached school leaving age which would be between 1915 and 1918. At that time the district had textile mills but I think she was at Jones' Sewing machines...
The bottom line as regards half timing is that whatever the regulations it was still common until at least 1918.
As regards political influences..... I could go on for many pages but to keep it simple and give you some clues...
Until 1900 there were two main parties, Tories and Liberals. Be aware that up until that time the Liberals were regarded as a radical party and many working class people tended towards them. The Labour Party was founded in 1900, having grown out of the trade union movement and socialist parties of the nineteenth century and from that time was the favoured party of many workers, many influenced by support of the Co-operative Movement. From that time the Liberals lost ground as they were seen as more right wing, in fact many Liberals embraced Toryism as they became more prosperous.
As a very general rule it is safe to assume that chapel goers were more likely to be Liberal and then Labour. The Church of England was widely regarded as being 'the Tory party at prayer'. However there were exceptions, many workers thought it safe to support the same party as their employers and this was very likely to be High Tory.
Clues in individual cases could be trade union membership or even choice of daily paper. Membership of the Clarion Cycling Club (there was one in Barlick) almost certainly points to left leaning.
That's as far as I can go without unduly influencing you! I hope it is helpful.
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Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 02 Mar 2019, 10:33

I would imagine he was from a Liberal political background. He was openly a Marxist in his thinking and writing ( his words ratherthan mine) . He split from the SDF at about the time of the formation of the ILP. He wrote and published a rival newspaper to the Justice. ( ?) in the 1890s in Burnley which was not approved of. In the Literature of the British Socialist Party the political leaflets he wrote are recommended reading, and yet by this time I believe family life had taken over and he was no longer politically active. I just wonder what could have motivated him. Perhaps it was when he was at the Burnley Mechanics circa 1892
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Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 02 Mar 2019, 10:40

What age did children normally start school then?
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Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 02 Mar 2019, 10:55

Just found my original article .it was 1889 when he was awarded his certificatesat Burnley Mechanics, where he got a got second class in shorthand and English Literature in May and in the July got first class in Commercial English.
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Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 03 Mar 2019, 04:10

Motivation for being a socialist was almost always a burning sense of injustice and frustration because labour had no representation. The Liberals used to partially fill that role but at the turn of the century were moving to the right. One of the reasons for their decline was the number who tergiversated to the Tories.
Starting school was as early as possible, usually at 4 years old. The main driver for this was the need, in a low wage economy, for mothers to be free to work during the day and school was the best child-minder. This still applied when I went to school at 4 years old in 1940 but then I think the driver was to free mothers for war work.
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Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 03 Mar 2019, 07:36

Reading around about tge Burnley Mechanics Institute in old newspapers online I think he may have studied Political Economy there or been involved in some sort of debating society. I am still following a thread there via a cousin who is also a very good genealogy and history researcher who used to work there. Thanks for your help and pointers Stanley. I also found that he probably left school at 14 or 15 according to one article I read
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Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 03 Mar 2019, 08:46

He must have been a very good scholar and might possibly have been teaching others as a student teacher before he left. This was quite common, there's a technical term for it but it escapes me at the moment...
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Re: Schools

Post by Sue » 03 Mar 2019, 09:55

Interesting, I wonder if my cousin can find that out
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Re: Schools

Post by Stanley » 04 Mar 2019, 04:11

:good:
Today they are paid and called 'classroom assistants' but in those days bright pupils took on the role and of course were unpaid! In some cases it became a route into full-time paid teaching.
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