Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

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Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 04 Jan 2020, 03:01

Hello fellow Genealogist’s and Craven Historians.

I am an Australian Harrison Family researcher with ancestral ties to many of the areas around the Craven area. My GGG Grandfather William and his son Henry are in my line (from Earby) and almost all the Harrison’s buried at Broughton All Saints Church are my relatives.

I have a research request that is born out of my inability to solve a puzzle that has haunted me and many other Harrison researchers for many years. I have exhausted all my accessible on-line resources, co-researchers ideas and my interpretations and understanding of the information that I either hold or have accessed.

To make a long story short and hopefully clear, there were two Jeremiah Harrison’s Christened at Broughton.

In 1740 Jeremiah to William Harrison (laborer) and Martha (Nutter) of Elslack.
In 1741 Jeremiah to Francis Harrison (Taylor) and Mary (Greenwood) of Elslack.

One of these Jeremiah Harrison’s married Mary Clark and they farmed at Smearber Farm in Elslack for many years, Jeremiah Lived until he was 90 - 1830 and Mary until 76 – 1818, both apparently buried at Broughton All Saints, but the headstones are missing.

My quest is to determine which Jeremiah Harrison married Mary Clark, the son of William OR the son of Francis? Because of this confusion there are many published Harrison Family Trees that are split, some go the William direction and some go the Francis direction. One is clearly wrong?

I had hoped that I could solve this problem but I’ve failed. I’m hopeful that there might be an actual family tree that is constructed by the ancestral Harrison family still located locally in the Craven area that might contain this vital clue. If such a vital document doesn’t exist, then I’m hopeful that there might be evidence buried within the dusty corners of an Archive, a Records Office, Family History Society, Parish Church, House attic or cellar, or someone’s memory that might shine a light on this problem. We/us contemporary researchers using on-line resources haven’t been able to solve this problem successfully. Local knowledge and good old fashioned records, recollections and research will be our only hope I think?

Could I please request the help of your local Family History sleuths and or possibly the local Harrison’s to unravel this mystery.

Many thanks

Ian Harrison
Ianharrison3hh@gmail.com

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Stanley » 04 Jan 2020, 05:42

I've sent Ian some pics that he wanted. This could be an interesting investigation!
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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Wendyf » 04 Jan 2020, 06:59

Good morning Ian and good luck with your quest! I will search the Earby History Society's archive for any clues.
Did both couples marry at Broughton?

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 04 Jan 2020, 20:09

Hi Wendy,

Yes, both couples were married at Broughton All Saints;

(1) William Harrison (Farrier) & Martha Nutter of Thornton by License June 4th 1732-3
(2) Francis Harrison (Cooper) & Mary Greenwood Spinster of Broughton by Banns Oct 13th 1740

Ian

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 04 Jan 2020, 20:21

Hi,

I have invited Linda (Harrisa) to this discussion.

She has previously been a Harrison contributor on this Forum,

Her Richard 1797-8 is the brother to William 1799 one of the original Smearber Harrison's. She is a Craven area and Broughton Harrison Ancestor.

One of the (1740/41) Jeremiah's in question is the father of Jeremiah (B) 1772 and Martha Lund, the parents of her Richard (B) 1797)

Ian

Harrisa (PM'd)

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 04 Jan 2020, 21:44

Hi, I have invited Harricroft to this discussion;

He has previously been a Harrison contributor on this Forum,

His interests were Descendants of Edmund Harrison & Dodgson Descendants

His Edmund (B 1708) is part of this family and the William he refers to (Edmund's father) will be part of this discussion.

The original "Ed-Hunters" an international and local group of researchers eventually located Edmund's Christening details obscured in a corner of the original Broughton Registration Book (PR's) at the Archives. (]never previously indexed or transcribed into contemporary documents) Interestingly, the Harrison's were the Church Wardens at Broughton and responsible for the documentation of these registrations....LOL

Ian

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 04 Jan 2020, 22:11

Hi,
sorry to report my first error (so soon)!!

when I listed the the two Jeremiah's I indicated the wrong Francis Harrison (there were two) our man is a "Cooper"

(Error) - In 1741 Jeremiah to Francis Harrison (Taylor) and Mary (Greenwood) of Elslack.
(Corrected) - In 1741 Jeremiah to Francis Harrison (Cooper) and Mary (Greenwood) of Elslack.

Ian

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Stanley » 05 Jan 2020, 03:14

I told you this looks interesting!
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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 05 Jan 2020, 04:51

Hi, I have invited Christine (Deconyazzy) to this discussion;

She has previously been a Harrison contributor on this Forum,

Her Harrison family is from The Craven Harrison's, she is a seasoned Genealogist with a significant record of accuracy and a magnificent ancestral tree.

We have spoken of this Jeremiah issue in the distant past and again recently.

Ian

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by deakinyazzy » 05 Jan 2020, 18:43

Hi folks,
Ian at HarroOz and I are trying to find the true father of our Jeremiah Harrison, a farmer, born 1741 and who died at Smearber Farmhouse on 26 Dec 1830. (Parish records).

I think Jeremiah could have been baptised on either of two dates to either of two fathers below:
1) 9 Jan 1741 • Elslack Broughton, Yorkshire-West Riding, son of William of Elslack, no occ given in Parish register.
2) 27.12.1741 • Elslack in Broughton church, son of Francis, cooper.

Ian from Oz states that the father could be:
In 1740 Jeremiah to William Harrison (labourer) and Martha (Nutter) of Elslack.
In 1741 Jeremiah to Francis Harrison (cooper) and Mary (Greenwood) of Elslack.

I think that the answer could lie with Smearber Farmhouse itself - I have plotted the tenancies from Jeremiah's death in 1830 to the 1960s. I also contacted the Elslack Estates in 2014, who still owned the property then but they have no surviving records of it. The Lane-Fox family from Bramham, near Wetherby would have owned the estate in the 1830s or before perhaps? George Lane Fox name has been mentioned also.

Does anyone in the local area know when Smearber was built? We would welcome some input.

I am leaning towards Jeremiah being the son of Francis as there was a daughter Hannah, baptised 1753 at Broughton church, who married a Robert Smith and my husband (the Harrison involved here) is a dna match to a descendant of theirs.

Hoping someone can help solve our mystery, thank you.

deakinyazzy
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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Wendyf » 05 Jan 2020, 19:20

There are Land Tax records covering the 1780's for Broughton & Elslack on Ancestry. The name Jeremiah Harrison crops up regularly in Elslack but the properties aren't named. The owner's name is Sir John Goodricke who, according to Wikipedia, inherited an interest in the Lane Fox estate. He died in 1789.

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Stanley » 06 Jan 2020, 03:04

From a recent article I did on Elslack....

"‘Eleslac’ is noted as being in the possession of Roger de Poitevin, one of William’s Norman knights. In 1318/20 Godfrey de Altaripa held the manor and was licensed to ‘kernel’ his house. This was permission to fortify it because at the time the Craven area suffered regular raids by the Scots. In 1462 one of his descendants married Ralph Radcliffe and the manor was held by the Radcliffe family until 1558 when Alice, daughter and heir of Christopher Radcliffe married William of Malham and the Malhome family held the manor.
In the 18th century the Lane-Fox family gained the manor by marriage and I think held it until the 19th century when Elslack Hall was bought by J J Duckworth, a cotton manufacturer who in 1915 bought Dotcliffe Mill at Kelbrook from the Smallpage family and enlarged it but later moved all his looms to Nelson and retired to Elslack. I met him once at the entrance to the Tempest Arms when he asked me to help him over the step into the building. He told me who he was and said he had a lot of money but would give it all to be able to step up into the pub like I could."
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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 06 Jan 2020, 08:22

Hi all,

Thank you Wendy for the tip regarding the Elslack Land Tax documents on Ancestry, it's worth a look and might fill in any one of a dozen other parts of the puzzle.

Thank you Stanly for the interesting info regarding the history of Elslack, its evident that these farms in the area were mostly owned by either big corporations or previously by wealthy land lords. Tenant Farms?

When I combine Stanly's and Wendy's thread together, I wonder why a tenant is paying Land Tax? perhaps a bit different to Australia? If I own the property and lease it out then I pay the Land Tax

Ian

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Wendyf » 06 Jan 2020, 08:58

They are mostly still tenant farms Ian, the Estate was sold a few years ago to a property company based in Exeter with no connection to the area. Families who have tenanted the farms for generations are at risk of losing their farms, the property company is looking to make profits from their investment.
I'm not certain if Smearber is still part of the Estate.

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 06 Jan 2020, 09:27

Hi,

thank you Yazzie for your thoughts on this issue:

There are two issues that you have raised:

(1) The origins, the integrity, the accuracy and our interpretation of the Records that we have seen so far.
(2) The issue of DNA results which to some degree underpins some of the dynamics of this review.

We have used the same records but they have been delivered to us in different ways. My original view of this family and my resultant tree was from the Broughton Parish records alone. These original records were viewed at the Public Records office (not sure where? perhaps, North Allerton) and subsequently the Harrison specific entries were transcribed by Bob Dodgson on behalf of the group known as the "EdHunters" they were searching for Edmund Harrison whose name didn't appear on any officially transcribed or on-line resource. There were glaring omissions in the Parish Records so it was then decided to review the Bishop's Transcripts. The period between 1700 and 1740's was of particular interest because it was known that Edmund was born within this period. This period was also a problem for our Jeremiah's. The combination of the two Registers made a bit more sense and gave some greater detail albeit still a bit confusing.
"I'm not sure who does the writing in these records the Vicar or the Church Warden, but it was the Harrison's who were the Church Wardens and if they were responsible then (three lashes)!!"

Below is a Combination of The Broughton PR's and BT's merged together: (Red=BT's)

WILLIAM the Farrier, Laborer[/b]
* 1732-3 William Ha’sn of Parish of Brt”n, farrier, Martha Nutter of P’rsh of Thr’n, married by License June 4th
* 1740 Jeremiah son of William Harrison of Elslack bapt Jan 15th
1740-41 Jeremiah, s of William H of Elslack labourer bapt Jan 11th
* 1743 Benjamin son of William Harrison of Elslack bapt May 29th
* 1746 William son of William Harrison of Elslack bapt May 18th
* 1749 Bernard son of William Harrison of Elslack bapt May 21st



FRANCIS the COOPER
1740 Francis Harrison and Mary Greenwood of Elslack by banns Dec 25t
1740-41 Francis H cooper and Mary Greenwood spinster of Broughton, married by Banns Oct 13th
* 1741 Jeremiah son of Francis Harrison of Elslack bapt Nov 27th
1741-42 Jeremiah, s of Francis of Elslack bapt Dec 27th
* 1743 John son of Francis Harrison Cooper in Elslack Aug 8th
* 1745 Mary dau of Francis Harrison Cooper bapt Feb 23rd
* 1747 Joseph son of Francis Harrison Cooper in Elslack bapt Mar 20th
* 1750 Greenwood son of Francis Harrison of Elslack Cooper of Elslack bapt June 25th
* 1753 Hannah dau of Francis Harrison Cooper of Elslack bapt Jan 27th
* 1756 David son of Francis Harrison of Elslack Cooper bapt July 25th
* 1758 Francis son of Francis Harrison of Elslack Cooper bapt Oct 29th
# 1763 + Francis Harrison of Elslack cooper buried May 26th
# 1763 +Francis Harrison of Elslack cooper May 26th
# 1764 + Francis son of Mary Harrison widow buried Dec 23rd

The second issue is the complex issue of DNA results. Y-DNA is carried by males, they (DNA) remain almost the same for centuries within families. if everything is going well and there is "no mischief in the moonlight" then your son should inherit your Y-DNA exactly. I have really unusual DNA for someone with proven English heritage. One of the EdHunters has the same DNA as I have he lives in the UK. Of all the Harrison's who have had DNA tests only five Harrison's have the same as mine, there a few hundred others (Harrison's) who have classic English type DNA. Amongst the dozen or so others who have my type of DNA there a three Greens and two or three Nutters all of them in the USA. Broughton and Elslack had quite a few Greens and Nutters, The Harrison's, the Nutters and the Greens intermarried and I'm guessing some other stuff? who's DNA is it the Harrison's, the Greens? Could it have been the Y-DNA of the Broughton All Saints Vicar, Ellis Nutter buried at Broughton in 1726. We will hopefully know more as this story plays out.

Autosomal DNA tests combine the DNA of both parents, MT-DNA does the Female DNA, someone with more knowledge of DNA testing and results might like to clear this up.

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 06 Jan 2020, 11:08

Hi Wendy and Chris,

on the subject of the Tenant Farms, I had heard that this is what is happening over there and its a terrible business. The same over in Oz, the Supermarkets have made it difficult for the farmers on multiple levels and now a drought and huge fires. Not too good to be a farmer in Oz or Yorkshire? Big and overseas companies are buying up the little farms and combining them. Lots of Farmers want out over here.

On Yazzie's subject of DNA matching, I neglected to say that a "match is a match" it does matter that the two comparison tests are the same type, (ie) Y-DNA to Y-DNA, Autosomal to Autosomal, MT-DNA to MT-DNA. So in Yazzies case it must have been Autosomal in both cases.

Cheers

Ian Harro!

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Stanley » 07 Jan 2020, 03:11

I watch with awe......
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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 07 Jan 2020, 07:37

Hi All,

I thought that I should provide a better view of this issue so that it's easier to understand;

1/ The A column is the Francis derived Jeremiah and the B Column is the William derived Jeremiah.
2/ The C Column are the descendants of Jeremiah Harrison and Mary Harrison (Clark). (either the 1740 or the 1741 choice)
3/ This is just the Smearber Harrison's of Elslack used for an example. The entire Harrison Clan is a V'-Large project.
4/ The name in red is the ancestor of the group beneath, each separated group is a family (siblings)(generation)
5/ The problem we need to solve is: The incorrect Jeremiah choice leads to a an incorrect Ancestry (family & generations) above him..

https://oneguyfrombarlick.co.uk/downloa ... ew&id=2216

Cheers Harro
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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by deakinyazzy » 07 Jan 2020, 17:02

Thank you to Wendy (also for your help back in 2014), Stanley, Ian etc.

On the DNA front the match my Harrison husband had was an autosomal but very soon we should his Ydna results...'being processed'....as they say.

Re ownership of Smearber I was in contact with a very helpful man at Davis-Bowring.co.uk, managing agent of the Elslack Estate, who said the current owners purchased the estate in the late 1920’s and that Smearber is a three bed farmhouse and thought it had been a dairy farm for some time. The land is now farmed as a beef and sheep farm and the house let separately. It is a very nice three bed house with a very good view. That was April 2014.

Yazzy a.k.a Christine

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Wendyf » 07 Jan 2020, 18:09

The estate is now owned by a company called Carleton Estates based in Exeter. No connection to Carleton in Craven.

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by HarroOz » 07 Jan 2020, 20:12

Hi, Thanks Wendy and Christine,

I agree with you that it's possible that the Smearber Farm might have the answer we are seeking.

Who was living at that property in, before and around 1740 might be important to determine which Jeremiah or more importantly which set of parents were living there.

I'm concurrently looking into all my old documents to see if I've missed anything, I was reading some old books last night and came across quite a lot of "Broughton cum Elslack" historical facts and I'll stay on that tack for a while, I have initiated a request for Local Smearber family knowledge in another domain and hope this might pan out to be a good lead into the family group and then maybe a residency tree?

Also trying to locate documents regarding Elslack township directories so we can see who was doing what in (C)1740's, specifically, Laborers, Coopers, Farriers etc. If there are any locals reading this who might know of the existence of such things, please let us know

Here below, an exert from "Whitaker"s History of Craven book" dealing with issues surrounding Broughton and Elslack, the church, lands and importantly the missing entries in the Parish Records between 1700 - 1740, possibly for us, an entire generation lost.

BROUGHTON,IN AIREDALE.—ALLSAINTS.—(Discharged Vicarage.)—Area,3,950acres.Staincliffe wapentake,E. D.PopULATION,407';Church-Room,sufficient; NETVALUE,190l.–Given to the Abbey of Bolton by William, nephew of the King of Scots, and Cicily de Rumely, his wife, and appropriated thereto in 1442,and a Vicarage ordained; and at the Dissolution, the patronage was given to the Dean and Canons of Christ Church, who are still the patrons and impropriators. The impropriators are charged with. . Including Elslack. In 1834,the population is stated to be 427.

250ARCHDEACONRYOF YORK.a payment of 3s. 4d. to the poor, in time of Lent. Valued in Pope Nicholas's first taxation, at 201.; and in his new taxation, at 10l. 13s. 4d. ; in the King's books, at 5l. 16s.per annum; in the Parliamentary Survey, vol. xviii. page 206,at 27l.per annum; and the certified value, in 1818,was 24!.12s. Augmented in 1742,with 200l.,to meet benefaction of 200l. from Mr.Edward Guy.“The corn tithes of the parish impropriated to the Earl of Burlington, and farmed by him of the Dean and Chapter of Christ Church, Oxford, except some that belong to Mr. F, and the corn tithe of four closes in Elslack. All other tithes belonging to the Church. Endowed with all small tithes. Not taken notice of in the Valor Ecc. Yearly value of the Vicarage, 25l.per annum. Church founded by Alice Duramella. ”Signed,“Ellis Nutter,Vic.”—Notitia Parochialis,No.87.Dr. Whitaker gives the substance of the endowment, and a catalogue of the Vicars. 4th September 1786,faculty to take away a barn. The glebe house is fit for residence. The Registers are returned to Parliament as commencing in 1689, but imperfect till 1703,though Dr. Whitaker supposed they were lost from their commencement to 1746; but it appears that there is a chasm from 1703 to 1740.-Wide transcript sat York. Parochial Charities.—No return. Post town, Skipton. Torre' sMS. ,page 477.Mon. Angl.,vol. vi.page201.Whitaker's Craven,page87. BURNSALL.—

Cheers Harro

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Stanley » 08 Jan 2020, 03:48

Ian, if you look in Stanley's View you'll find two recent articles I wrote about Elslack and Broughton based on reading my copy of Whitaker.

Image

This is a pic of Billy Harrison's son John in 1977 when he visited Hey Farm. Ian asked me if I knew where he was but I am afraid I've never heard from him since. I don't have a pic of Jack either.....
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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by deakinyazzy » 08 Jan 2020, 12:50

Shame @Wendy about the Exeter company business - I thought there might have been a local connection due to the name so had a quick look at the company directors - seems it's a name connection only as in surnames!

I have a photo of young John with dad Billy - it says 69 on it but John was born in 1955 so that would make him 14 - he doesn't look that old on it - can't remember where I got it from now either! Hve tried to attach it hope it shows, Yazzy/Christine
Bill Harrison & John 69.jpg
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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by Harricroft » 08 Jan 2020, 17:23

Hello, Ian. Sorry for the delayed response, I've had trouble logging on.

I'm afraid I can't help with your query. The parish registers have relatively limited information which doesn't help distinguish between these two Jeremiahs. I've been in touch with Chris Harrison who you know. He similarly has no answer unfortunately.

Are there any wills that might help, if not Harrison then perhaps wills of family members of partners of Harrisons??

Edmund Harrison (1708) was also described as a cooper at one point from memory and I have a vague recollection that there was or is a house in Elslack named "Cooper's Cottage".

Whether that is an accurate (and in any way relevant!!!) memory of a building named after an occupation rather than surname is another matter,

What I am sure of is that you couldn't find a better source of potential help than this site. Best wishes, Bob

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Re: Craven Harrison’s – Jeremiah 1740 vs Jeremiah 1741

Post by ChrisHarrison » 08 Jan 2020, 20:08

Hello, all.

I'm sure most of you know most of this already, so apologies in advance.

What remains of the Broughton register is on film at the Yorkshire Record Office, which was in Northallerton when I visited, although I believe it's moved since. The film I looked at was 1690-1778. The early years appear very flaky and incomplete. The years 1708 (part) to 1739 are missing. The film shows torn-out pages for those years as well as charring on some pages before and after, which makes many of the entries less than legible. The librarian who was on duty when I visited the YRO said that the register had been rescued from a bonfire. We presumed it must have happened rather more recently than the last edition of Whitaker (1878), but obviously not! Perhaps someone wanted to hide something. I've heard of registers being destroyed in an attempt to conceal evidence during property disputes/inheritance struggles, etc. While there, I took notes of everything Harrison-related.

I was desperate to find the baptism of Edmund, as mentioned above. The last legible part-page for 1708 ended with "Edmund, son of". The rest of the page was torn out. Grrrrr!

Fortunately, the Broughton churchwardens (not all Harrisons, I have to say!) submitted copies of each year's register to the diocese - the Bishop's Transcripts - although they are rarely accurate or complete in my experience. The BTs for Broughton are at the Borthwick Institute in York.
When I visited (with Bob D), we found Edmund's baptism there: Edmund, son of William Harrison, bapt 27 June, 1708.

Just to throw a spanner in the Jeremiah works, from Bob's transcription of the Broughton BTs, I have baptisms of the following children of several Francis Harrisons:

9.5.1734 - John of Francis of Elslack, Taylor
5.12.1734 - Anne of Francis, farrier
31.7.1737 - George of Francis, Taylor of Elslack
17.8.1740 - Joseph of Francis of Elslack, Taylor
27.12.1741 - Jeremiah of Francis of Elslack
13.2.1742 - Charles of Francis of Elslack
8.8.1743 - John of Francis of Elslack
23.2.1745 - Mary of Francis
20.3.1747 - Joseph of Francis of Elslack
25.6.1750 - Greenwood of Francis of Elslack, Cooper

Three different occupations are given, as well as none. How on earth is one supposed to work out which Francis is which? Or which one is Jeremiah's father?

As far as Cooper's Cottage is concerned, the property was renovated by the owner about 10 years ago. I happened to see him as I drove through Elslack one weekend and asked what he knew about the name. He told me that he'd bought the house from an old boy by the name of Cooper!

Cheers!
Chris

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