POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 11 Aug 2018, 04:36

I see Project Fear is being cited by the Brexiteers over possible shortages if and when customs bite. More lies and half truths.
I came across this in PE letters yesterday and it seems worth repeating. I was torn between here and Quotes so I'll post it in both.
A man called John Evans wrote that whilst Nye Bevan's reference to vermin is often connected the formation of the NHS it was a different context. He made it during a speech in Manchester on 4 July 1948 the day before the NHS commenced. The context was the hated Means Test and the pitiful level of relief given to poor families when the bread-winner was unemployed. He was referring to his experiences in the Welsh Valleys in the 1920s when he suffered under the Means Test.
That is why no amount of cajolery and no attempts at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. I warn young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now... They have not changed.. if they have, they are slightly worse than they were".
It seems to me that these words apply today but we haven't got a Nye Bevan.......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 11 Aug 2018, 11:48

Stanley wrote:
11 Aug 2018, 04:36
They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation.
Tripps reply in 'Quotes' ...The quote was of its time, and probably appropriate then. Now? I don't think so.
The dramatic rise in food banks tends to point that austerity is taking its toll. Will the UK ever reach the point of semi starvation? I hope not but its on the cards. If you look outside the UK and reflect what happened during the Bush / Blair sanctions on Iraq prior to the invasion where untold thousands were actually starving its not hard to see that the logic is still a tool to be used to suppress a population. The final invasion of Iraq with even more unnecessary deaths was the last stage of the process to take control of a country under the guise of protecting the population from further suffering. America is now applying the same tactics to Iran with totally unnecessary sanctions and is even going to the extreme of threatening sanctions on countries that trade with them. And here we are promising trade deals with the USA should we crash out of the Brexit. Sorry to say but the Americans are trying to rule the World and don't give a damn about anybody else.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 12 Aug 2018, 02:41

P they call it collateral damage now..... I have believed, and have repeatedly said so, that since 2010 the Tory Project was to return the condition of the poor to that of the 19th century. In fact they are going back even further by re-introducing the concept of 'less eligibility' into Benefits, a principle introduced in the 'New Poor Law under Elizabeth I. That is the principle that those in receipt of benefits should not be better off than those without and in work. If at the same time you reduce the benefits of work by austerity and manipulation of wages and working conditions you get a better result. Truly a Cunning Wheeze and I'll bet Nye would have seen through it.
[David asks me to think again..... I have been thinking about it for 40 years..... For evidence read up the 'New Poor Law' then go to the Rowntree Foundation reports from the end of the 19th century to the present day and read them. I have, and they present a consistent picture throughout. Nothing has changed since Seebohm Rowntree commissioned the first report.]
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 12 Aug 2018, 06:13

I've just heard a BBC report that an unnamed member of the Cabinet, commenting on the Johnson 'letter box' furore has said "There isn't a single serious political brain in Downing Street". I can't disagree with that......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 13 Aug 2018, 02:59

From the deathly hush in Westminster you could almost imagine that no great matters of State were in abeyance....... Meanwhile, we gradually slide towards what could be the edge of the cliff.
The Boris row isn't going away. See THIS slightly hysterical report from the Express suggesting that it could lead to a no-confidence vote in T May. I doubt whether the Tories are ready to grasp this nettle, it's the silly season and the papers have no news.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 13 Aug 2018, 08:11

Boris and his partner oaf Mogg know that they can effectively say what they want without serious repercussions. If right was right they should both be thrown out of the party along with any others that share their views. Zero majority or thereabouts provides get out of jail free cards for anyone that wants them though. If it was Jeremy...
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 13 Aug 2018, 09:06

Burka / Burqa, To us Westerners a totally alien form of dress that attracts attention and comment. We find it strange and disconcerting to have women walking about with their faces covered. There is undoubtedly cases where security or facial recognition is required they should be removed other than that its down to culture and opinions. My own bête noire is tattoos on women. Anyone who visits a swimming pool will see some women with more tattoos than a drunken sailor. Every bit of their bodies plus thankfully bits we can't see is covered with what is euphemistically called 'body art'. In my mind these are much more regressive in dress than burkas. The whole uproar is just a diversion away from real political issues and designed to get Boris on the front pages before he slides into obscurity.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 13 Aug 2018, 09:38

But the tattooed women who offend you could say the tattoos are down to their `culture and opinions'. If I had a job serving the public such as a shopkeeper, shop assistant, bank teller, health visitor, carer etc I wouldn't like having to deal with people who covered half or more of their face. For a start there is the security aspect of anyone wearing what is essentially a facial mask that allows them to avoid recognition and secondly it's impolite and suggests that they consider me not fit to see their face.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The FT front page this morning announces its own damning report on Britain's productivity crisis: FT productivity report It's a shocking report and the section heads alone tell the story:

1. Productivity is near bottom of G7 league table
2. UK once had best productivity in Europe
3. Productivity slump has been worse than elsewhere
4. Best industries fizz less than they did
5. The most productive companies have lost momentum
6. There is a ‘long tail’ of unproductive companies
7. Many regions don’t have enough productive companies
8. Low skilled workers are too prevalent

At the end it notes that the OECD found in 2016 that England had one of the largest proportions of low-skilled young workers among advanced economies.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 13 Aug 2018, 11:44

PanBiker wrote:
13 Aug 2018, 08:11
Boris and his partner oaf Mogg
In all fairness - I'm not sure that oaf is the correct insult to use. :smile:

A man who is rough or clumsy and unintelligent.
‘they are just big, clumsy oafs’
Origin
Early 17th century: variant of obsolete auf, from Old Norse álfr ‘elf’.
The original meaning was ‘elf's child, changeling’,
later ‘idiot child’ and ‘halfwit’, generalized in the current sense.


Though other definitions include 'clown' which would probably fit.
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 13 Aug 2018, 12:40

Any insult will do for me, they are both from privileged backgrounds but don't behave as such. Par for the course for those that think they are masters of the universe rather than the spoilt brats that they are.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 13 Aug 2018, 13:38

On a more positive note than talking about the self serving buffoons in politics.

I have just completed my ballot entries for the Labour Party Summer Elections for the National Executive Committee (NEC) representatives and those for the North West representatives for the National Policy Forum (NPF). Completed it all online using the security credentials received on the postal ballot papers, this saves money for the party. Very quick and easy to use system with my ballots confirmed as received and recorded. I completed the optional survey offered by the Electoral Reform Service which asked for preferences of ballot communication and voting options.
Ian

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 14 Aug 2018, 02:58

"The whole uproar is just a diversion away from real political issues and designed to get Boris on the front pages before he slides into obscurity." Quite right P!
That's a shocking report Tiz. They should have included time wasted on smart phones...... Oh, and waiting in traffic or for late trains. My own opinion is that there is a higher level of incompetence these days as well, but that may be my age poking through.
Later.... some very focussed criticism of the BofE and it's failure to control the runaway growth of credit. In addition they appear to have overestimated wage growth when they raised the interest rate, latest figures show that in real terms it is lower than forecast. This credit is seen as a very real threat to the economy.
If you want to give the impression you are governing and your heart is in the right place issue yet another statement of aspiration on low cost social housing. A cunning wheeze except for the fact that the Rowntree Foundation has pointed out a catalogue of the Tory failings in the time they have been in office. Shelter have also cast doubts on the measure. (LINK)
Meanwhile, the clock ticks and we slide down the slope.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 14 Aug 2018, 08:36

Stanley wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 02:58
My own opinion is that there is a higher level of incompetence these days as well, but that may be my age poking through.
In that case my age is poking through too because I see, and experience, the incompetence that you see too. Oodles of it. I saw a news story of a man who received a letter from the local council's Head of Education saying he would be fined for taking his kids on holiday in term time. The man ringed in red ink about eight spelling errors in the letter and ended by adding `I give it D-' in a red circle then sent it back to the Head of Education.

It was entertaining to hear someone on the radio talking about how everyone keeps blaming our problems on the so-called `elite', whatever that is. And especially when he pointed out that Jacob Rees-Mogg had also blamed the elite!

The Daily Mail this morning has the word CONDEMNED in a giant font above a photo of Corbyn. If he so much as pats a child on the head he'll probably find his photo on the front of the Daily Mail under the word `paedophile' in capital letters. The Daily Mail is a disgrace. The sad fact is that it's by far the most read newspaper in the UK. No wonder we're in a pickle!

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 14 Aug 2018, 11:01

Tizer wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 08:36
The Daily Mail is a disgrace.
So is Corbyn!

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 14 Aug 2018, 11:56

China, everybody's entitled to their opinion but could you please give a bit more detail why you think so. If you take some care to read the comments by the Daily Mail, Express, Sun etc: The timeline of events is often given in the wrong order, their information sources are usually unspecified often quoted as 'government' spokesman or circular repeats of other papers quotes. Within this mix is propaganda of false facts designed to throw doubt into peoples minds. So what is Corbyn currently up against? The Tory Party, Trump and his Republican cohorts, Benjamin Netanyahuand the Israel government, our own right wing newspapers, the top 0.1% of the worlds wealthy people, and just as dangerous, people within the Labour Party who want to get back to the days when they were running it 'their' way. All this is spelled out in Noam Chomsky's YouTube videos where he pulls no punches and explains things as they really are rather than what the masters of the universe would like us to think.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 14 Aug 2018, 12:48

China, have you met the bloke to reach your viewpoint, (I have) or just swallowed all the right wing driven media character assassination attempts? Also why should it worry you living where you do in your chosen utopia?

Oh and If you think I am rising to the bait you are mistaken.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Big Kev » 14 Aug 2018, 14:11

I would not want to be a politician for any party, especially if they were running the country. Whatever they did, or didn't do, would be wrong in someone's world...
Kev

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 14 Aug 2018, 14:51

I appreciate why Barlick would be a Labour stronghold and I read plenty of anti-Conservative Party/anti-government comments on here. Do you think it is right for Corbyn in his position to be laying wreaths at Terrorist shrines, or is that just Daily Mail propaganda?
The whole adversarial way of governing the country is wrong: all government members should be rowing in the same direction not along party lines.
Long live the Revolution!

By the way, it doesn't worry me one little bit "living in my Utopia" as you put it. I'm alright Jack!

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 14 Aug 2018, 17:56

China, This link is to our 'independent ?' BBC. Link.. Lets go through some of the weasel words.
Sub headline.Jeremy Corbyn has refused to apologise for being present when a wreath was laid in memory of some of those accused of the 1972 Munich terror attack. "This states he was present at those accused but not at a service for those who did this terrible deed." "Were they actually proven terrorist or assumed terrorists because they were PLO members?"
Daily Mail. Mr Corbyn has faced fresh questions about the 2014 conference after the Daily Mail said he was pictured with a wreath near memorials to members of the Black September organisation. "Not quite the same as purposely attending a service."
Corbyn. Mr Corbyn said he had attended to take part in a ceremony honouring innocent victims of a 1985 Israeli air strike.
"This was an attack by the Israeli air force on the PLO offices which killed quite a number of people." "The assumption is that all PLO were terrorists and therefore OK to kill them. As long as Israel is backed by the Americans, who are very good at this type of physical intervention, there will be no peace settlement in this area."

Your throwaway line. The whole adversarial way of governing the country is wrong: all government members should be rowing in the same direction not along party lines.
Long live the Revolution! ---- "or Dictatorship!

At least you added some zip to OG political discussions.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 15 Aug 2018, 02:49

plaques wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 17:56
China, This link is to our 'independent ?' BBC. Link..
Sorry, I can't get BBC in Utopia. [There are ways but I must toe the line.]

Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive. :biggrin2:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 15 Aug 2018, 03:21

We're not doing too badly China. By the way, Barlick isn't a Labour stronghold, just a normal place with some very good people in it who see through the Tory con tricks.
Some good posts Lads.... I too deplore the killing of innocent Palestinian women and children. The bus incident that was perpetrated recently is a good example. Netanyahu is as big a danger to peace in the Middle East as Trump and the Iranians.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 15 Aug 2018, 06:17

Later...... A couple of economic items have caught my attention and in view of their possible effects on politics I think this is the place for them.
There was already some concern over the fact that the rate at which wages are rising is not keeping up with inflation, especially the higher prices of the essentials which are all the lower orders can afford. Inflation is expected to rise again slightly this morning to 2.5% which will make things worse. Add to this the news of the continued uncontrolled rise in executive pay which is reaching ridiculous levels. See THIS BBC report. This is a national scandal and it's high time action was taken beyond mild slaps on the wrist.
Then there is our friend Grayling...... He's at it again. He is arguing for the lower rate of inflation to be used to regulate train fare rises instead of the higher one based on RPI. I agree with that but being Grayling he has had to include a cunning wheeze, apply a cap to rail pay rises. I don't know enough about wage rates to comment on this but what is obvious is that he has provoked and immediate negative reaction from the unions. I would have thought that part of the strategy for repairing our broken rail system (if that is possible) is avoiding provocation of the unions. I fear that this man is creating yet another problem, something he does in every job he takes with monotonous regularity.
Meanwhile the clock ticks, the PM is on holiday in Switzerland now and there is no Brexit news.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 15 Aug 2018, 10:17

chinatyke wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 02:49
Sorry, I can't get BBC in Utopia. [There are ways but I must toe the line.]
I'm curious to know where you get your information on the UK political and social situation, China. Do you have access to UK newspapers in China and, if so, which ones do you read?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 15 Aug 2018, 11:29

Yes, we can read daily newspapers from other countries. I read Daily Mail, The Times, The Guardian, China Daily, People's Daily, CCTV Com English, whatever takes my fancy on the day. We get fed propaganda nonsense also, the same as you do in the UK. My main beef is people who constantly oppose what their government is doing, they're wreckers and traitors.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 15 Aug 2018, 12:12

chinatyke wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 11:29
We get fed propaganda nonsense also, the same as you do in the UK. My main beef is people who constantly oppose what their government is doing, they're wreckers and traitors.
The difference for us of course in a democracy is that we can protest, complain and demonstrate to our hearts content about our government if we feel the need. What do you expect us to do, just roll over and accept injustice in all it's different guises? Doesn't work in a single party state though does it? I don't consider myself a traitor either, just a bloke with his own mind and the nous to use it.
Ian

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