POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 10 Jul 2019, 02:19

Sorry, but I am in a frenzy of indifference. Can't be bothered to comment on the pantomime, more interested in surviving today.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 10 Jul 2019, 08:28

Don't worry Stanley, I didn't watch it either but from what I have picked up it was just one bumbling idiot guffawing to another. Pointless as the ballots are already out there and many will already have voted. Why is this being shown Nationally when we can't vote on the matter? We will get who we get, question is will either have the balls to test their tenancy in a General Election? :extrawink:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 10 Jul 2019, 11:22

We watched the full hour because, like it or not, this is a chance to see the two candidates performing. Hunt did well in fending off Blogger Boris and revealing his bad points. Unfortunately, being honest, sensible and reliable counts for less than does being a jokey celebrity as far as many are concerned. To any serious sensible person Boris just came across as being a clown. Oh well, there's a clown in charge in the USA so now it's our turn. Bring on the circus! :smile:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 11 Jul 2019, 02:17

And now we have the fall-out from the resignation of Kim Darroch. Will May have the balls to appoint a sensible successor? Hunt only looks like a reasonable choice because he is contrasted with a total dead loss like Johnson, in truth he is a nonentity and entirely unsuited to being a leader. It is beyond a farce.
Listening to the blue rinses saying it makes no difference to their vote is deeply depressing as they are hell bent on Brexit.... No wonder this country is in a mess!
Once again John Major impresses..... Unprecedented and totally correct.
The Panorama programme last night has tossed a grenade into the Labour Party. I don't know the 'truth' but so much of what I saw rang true and this is reinforced for me by the almost hysterical response from the Party attacking everyone involved. That starts my crap detector whining, things are never as clear cut as that. As far as I am concerned there is some fire behind all this smoke and I hate it..... Lord Levy is speaking now and seems to confirm my fears, he is being very sensible.
Later, Listening to Tom Watson the deputy leader I am astounded to hear that he is being denied sight of communications and any participation in any of these matters. Essentially he is being closed out of the internal affairs of the Party and this seems to me to be unacceptable. It seems to me that the leadership sees him as a rival not a Comrade. This makes me even more worried.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 11 Jul 2019, 07:58

Stanley wrote:
11 Jul 2019, 02:17
It seems to me that the leadership sees him as a rival not a Comrade. This makes me even more worried.....
You mean discombobulated, Watson is not part of the investigation committee but appears to positioning himself as a filter of complaints so that he can judge whether the appropriate and timely action is taking place. Corbyn as leader of the party is not within this loop so as not to influence the end decision. Big fleas have little fleas ......

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 11 Jul 2019, 08:07

I know what I mean P! I'm sure the situation disturbs you as well.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 11 Jul 2019, 09:09

Stanley, I'm glad you are keeping an open mind and not being blinkered by party loyalty. What you are seeing now is what I've been ranting about for some time. Corbyn's office is run by a bunch of nasty extremists who want to bend the Labour Party to their own ends. Corbyn is merely a puppet. Genuine Labour people like Tom Watson have been frozen out - and he's the Deputy Leader! That's tragic because Tom Watson is Labour's only chance of avoiding a long time in the wilderness. He should be the Leader.

Plaques, listen to Watson on this morning's Today programme. He was on at about 08.10.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 11 Jul 2019, 09:41

I remember in one of the books by Admiral Hyman G. Rickover he came across a audit department that was delaying purchases. An investigation showed this department was started and headed by a purchase department employee who had taken to over stamping each purchase 'Passed by the Audit Committee'. Nobody knew who this committee was but it didn't matter since it was 'passed'. Then came the day one, which was obviously wrong, was rejected. And so started the beginnings of a new empire.
Antisemitism is in danger of becoming the new McCarthyism.
Here is Labour's reply to the . Panorama programme. Not surprisingly they reject its presentation as bias.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 11 Jul 2019, 12:50

"Antisemitism is in danger of becoming the new McCarthyism."
I agree with that P but it doesn't help me with the conflicting evidence I am hearing.
Re. Iran denying any of their gunboats was involved in trying to stop the tanker in the Straits of Hormuz. Why didn't we reply "Good. We believe you. In that case you should be aware that people are impersonating your forces, probably the same people that attacked the tankers recently. We will help by identifying who they are and prevent any more attacks."
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 12 Jul 2019, 04:17

There doesn't appear to be any fresh political news this morning. The general opinion seems to be that Labour is ripping itself to pieces so a snap election under Boris gains traction. By the way he is reckoned to be a shoo-in now.
Not a cheerful picture.....
Later.... I hear Jennie Formby has attacked Tom Watson for criticising her especially when she is having chemotherapy... Speaking as a man who is also under treatment I don't see what this has got to do with the fact she has been criticised, it does not confer any sort of immunity and shouldn't be expected to. To cite this weakens her protest.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 12 Jul 2019, 12:24

Tizer wrote:
11 Jul 2019, 09:09
That's tragic because Tom Watson is Labour's only chance of avoiding a long time in the wilderness. He should be the Leader.
Stanley wrote:
12 Jul 2019, 04:17
.. I hear Jennie Formby has attacked Tom Watson for criticising her especially when she is having chemotherapy.

Tom Watson is only following the old adage of 'Always kick your opponent when he's down.'
Far from being a leader he is systematically doing his best to wreck the party. He is actively pushing the antisemitic agenda as hard as he can. The Jewish Labour Movement (JLM) is affiliated to the Labour Party and quite rightly lobby's in the best interest of its members. This includes getting the Equality and Human Rights Commission, (EHRC) to examine Labour's disciplinary procedure for dealing with antisemitic cases. Currently part of their action is to collect as many complaints as possible to highlight the depth of the problem. Tom Watson appears to think that cases already in the disciplinary queue should also be added to this list thereby stoking up the fire against Corbyn. I doubt if the EHRC brief is to examine possible future complaints only to look at whether the procedure for dealing with them is fit for purpose and those who have gone through it have had a fair hearing.
Sorry, I've no time for Tom Watson and in my view has shown himself to be a typical Blairite conservative.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 12 Jul 2019, 16:15

Plaques, you need to edit your post. You've made the mistake (all too easy!) of typing inside the quote codes of Stanley's post instead of after it, thus making it appear that all you've written was Stanley's words.

In response to the issue of Jenny Formby attacking Tom Watson for criticising her when she's having chemotherapy, I find your comment `Tom Watson is only following the old adage of 'Always kick your opponent when he's down' very cynical. Likewise, your claim that `he is systematically doing his best to wreck the party' is ridiculous. He's the one who is trying to prevent the `four Ms' of Corbyn's office from` wrecking the party'. Financial Times

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 12 Jul 2019, 17:48

Tizer, you are correct about the quotes , somehow they all got mixed up and time was running out to start again. They expressed the feeling so I left them as they were.
The kicking was meant to be cynical. also the word opponent. They are both in the same party aren't they?
The Financial Times is no lover of the Labour Party and there are plenty of 'opinion' articles to demonstrate this. They are generally peppered with 'suggests, sources, elements of' and other vague statements. buried amongst this negative blurb you may get one counter statement. 'But Mr McDonnell told the BBC that accounts of splits at the top of the party were “myths and rubbish”.
Not all that long ago many of Blair's Labour MPs voted against Corbyn as leader. Nothing has changed and like Tom Watson the majority are only interested in furthering their own image.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 12 Jul 2019, 21:54

I have always maintained that Jeremy, once elected twice on his socialist credentials should have had a "night of the long knives" with the rabid Blairites in the party. These are the very same people who have fought tooth and nail to discredit him at every opportunity. In order to have a complete change in the politics of the party you have to sweep away the old ideas. If members cannot support the basic principles of the party any longer they should leave.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 13 Jul 2019, 02:09

I don't know enough about Watson to comment apart from the fact that he seems credible when he speaks but set against that is my agreement with Ian about Corbyn's big mistake which I commented on at the time. He should have had a clear out and a firm line. support the leader and the Party or get out.
There is no doubt in my mind looking in as an outsider that the party is riven internally and I tend to go with Tiz and the fact that the advisers are the source of the problem. Looks like divide and rule to me. Whatever, it is a wasted opportunity, they are unelectable at the moment.
Hunt and Johnson still haven't faced each other. I saw some of the Neill programme and it was all posturing and no substance. Both are working on a wing and a prayer.
The real story of Brexit is happening elsewhere, pound slowly falling, economy at a standstill and the consequences already beginning to happen, like maritime registrations falling like a stone to quote just one.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 13 Jul 2019, 07:28

Let's hope we continue to have different opinions how else do you learn about the bigger picture.
Back to Brexit. I'm gradually beginning to think that all this business about 'making Britain great again' is really about preserving the old Dynasties and the power of new/old Oligarchs. Staying in the EU, a republic, will eventually see the demise of the privileged structure that has ruled since 1066. The Oligarchs are the invisible men who effectively rule the World. The more separated a country is from the rest of the international community the easier it is to control. So take your pick American Oligarchs or Russian Oligarchs but that's where we are heading.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 13 Jul 2019, 09:41

I agree with all of that, Plaques. I find it difficult to dredge up any optimism now. We are heading towards extremism and we have no credible and reliable political leadership in sight. My one hope is that the youngest generations will see the danger and take action. After all, it's their future, not mine. At least the satirists are going to have plenty of material from all this! :smile:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 14 Jul 2019, 03:27

I too agree P, a very perceptive statement of what is obvious to us all. We are told that we are classless these days but that in itself is still a con-trick. Bit like the denigration of the North/South divide. Of course we still have divides in society and a class who are educated in the belief that they are the future ruling elite.

Image

Need I say more? Think Heath and Thatcher, the establishment slipped up there and let them in and that's why they were never trusted by the Establishment. It is also why Labour have never managed to retain power, Blair was the exception of course because he was actually a closet Tory and had the right education and background.After all they wear flat caps and walk whippets! Think Keir Hardie and his statement dress on taking his seat. Above all, read the history!
Like Tiz, I am, along with many other friends more intelligent than me, very depressed about the course we are on now. The pendulum will eventually swing but how long Lord?
Later.... See THIS from the Detroit News. The Mail has published more leaked emails this morning. So much for the warning from the Met!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 14 Jul 2019, 07:38

I'd put my reading of Tom Brown's School Days on the back burner until I'd finished a couple of other books. Now getting into the meat of the book you can almost substitute Trump for Flashman. A cowardly bully that uses his money and position to get his own way. These people will be forever with us but the answer is for the little people to get together and throw them out.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 15 Jul 2019, 02:54

Or better still, demonstrate continually with evidence how incompetent they are!
For instance... In another part of the forest Trump accuses for women of colour of undermining government initiatives on immigration (Actually his.). He tells them to go back where they came from and address the problems in their own crime-ridden governments. Problem is that three out of the four were born in the US. Oh dear!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 15 Jul 2019, 08:00

Stanley wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 02:54
Or better still, demonstrate continually with evidence how incompetent they are!
Human nature being what it is will always resent being shown obvious inequalities even if they agree with them. With the present hierarchical structure which we have now which put them at the top how can it be wrong.
I now see that Charles Edward Maurice Spencer, 9th Earl Spencer, DL (born 20 May 1964), styled Viscount Althorp between 1975 and 1992, is a British nobleman, peer, Spencer is claiming ancestry back to the Despensers 1250's , Dynasties are alive and kicking. Make England great again.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 16 Jul 2019, 02:31

That's nothing! If my family evidence is correct, part of my ancestry goes back to the earliest aborigines in Australia. A bit earlier than the de Spencers. Incidentally they only claim what they think is proof of aristocracy and 'good family', their ancestry goes back just as far. Only thing about them is that their early forbears had more influence and climbed over more people than others to get their foothold as 'a good family', simply the biggest thieves! (I'm letting my prejudices break through aren't I!)
Meanwhile, Tweedledum and Tweedledee continue the pantomime... Boris being very careful not to upset his friend Donald..... He's already booked his flight to the US as Prime Minister....
Question. Is Boris making the same mistake as May? Is he struggling to be PM when in fact the job is a poisoned chalice? On the whole I think he is and this may be why nobody is very keen on toppling the government. Whoever is in charge is on a hiding to nothing I fear, best to let the Tories taste the full dregs of defeat.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 16 Jul 2019, 07:44

Stanley wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 02:31
That's nothing! If my family evidence is correct, part of my ancestry goes back to the earliest aborigines in Australia
Apart from the odd Neanderthal that has escaped extinction most of us go back to Lucy. Most of our British history is shaped by the Danes and the French. As you pointed out as far as our written history goes their intent was to steal as much as they could from the incumbent residents then spend another millennium trying to steal it from each other. These warring Barons put self interest above everything else and so it would continue if we are daft enough to let them.
Normally what goes on abroad is of little interest to the average voter but I think most people can see that once we leave the EU we shall be totally at the beck and call of the Americans. Currently this being psychopath Trump. Our foreign Minister Mr Hunt has just made his first biggest public blunder by pirating the Iranian oil tanker. This act of insanity will end in a total humiliation for us or a dangerous escalation that nobody wants. Meanwhile Boris is mouthing off on what the EU and America will have to agree to when every schoolboy knows that the boot is on the other foot. The inmates have taken charge of the asylum.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 16 Jul 2019, 09:35

Aborigines? I've always wondered why Stanley went walkabout every morning! :smile:

I agree with both of you although I think Plaques might have to modify his comment that `most of us go back to Lucy'. Evidence is gathering that Homo sapiens had its origins in more than one place. I always found it hard to believe the Lucy story - too much like Adam & Eve!

I missed his name but someone made a very good point about Brexit on `Today' this morning. He quite rightly said that populist referendums are no way to make democratic decisions on very complicated and technical issues and we shouldn't have had one to decide whether or not to leave the EU. He went on to say that we're heading for a catastrophic no-deal Brexit and the only way to handle this now is to have a second referendum to allow the electorate, in the light of all that has gone on in the last 3 years and with what they know now, to have a chance to say whether they want to continue or to back out of Brexit. We let a referendum get us into this situation and we need to use one to get us out of it, whether it's by leaving or staying. Although we believe a referendum is the wrong tool to use in such decisions we allowed one to get us into the quandary and we've got to use one to get us out of it. Let's face it, the politicians haven't the guts to make the decision themselves even though they got us into the problem.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 16 Jul 2019, 11:45

This is funny - and has 'the ring of truth' about it? :smile:

Boris Johnson interview.
Born to be mild. . .

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