DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 02 Sep 2018, 02:47

I've heard that as well David. I can understand why it is used but don't like it.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by plaques » 02 Sep 2018, 07:52

Otheriziing /otherisation. Here's a definition from one of the various 'Wiki' type definitions.

Quote ' ...used by the neuroscientist kathleen taylor to describe what happens when people are not included in their tribe; the others are commonly cl-ssed as beasts or subhumans.
can be broadened towards separating people belonging to different religions or separating believers/non-believers, friends/not-friends
those who carried out the final solution in n-z- germany could only have done it by otherisation of the jews.

If this is its intended meaning then we shall soon hear that people who have used it in a different context being labeled anti-Semitic. Remember Hitler also classed the Slavs as subhuman because of the shape of their heads.

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 02 Sep 2018, 10:23

I haven't seen it as a verb, `otherise', but I hear a lot now about fear of `other' ever since Brexit and Trump emerged into our world.

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 03 Sep 2018, 02:45

Funny things words.... why is 'tenderise' OK but 'otherise' not?
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 10 Sep 2018, 05:57

'Glimmer'. I used it this morning and wondered where we get that one from....
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 12 Sep 2018, 04:46

Heard in a description of James Anderson the bowler; "he is the most prolific bowler in the world". My understanding is that prolific means abundant or perhaps fertile. I wonder if this is what the commentator meant, perhaps a more simple word like successful would have been more appropriate.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 13 Sep 2018, 03:53

Ian used 'laik' this morning in a response to a post. It reminded me of how words of Scandinavian origin pepper our dialect. I love the reminder of how complex our history is.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 13 Sep 2018, 10:35

I mentioned elsewhere the forename Keren-happuch, derived from the name of one of Job's daughters in the Bible. I've read further and find that it means `horn of the face paint' which referred to a cosmetics box or `horn of antimony'. Having an interest in minerals that rang a bell. Antimony is said to have been used as a black eye liner cosmetic, also known as kohl, in ancient Egypt, although it was really stibnite which is antimony sulphide rather than elemental antimony. It's another of those cases of vanity versus safety - antimony is toxic. As `kohl' is black I wonder whether our word `coal' might be related to that origin; the word for coal in Old English, Dutch, German, Norse all sound the same.

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 14 Sep 2018, 02:47

I think you are on the money Tiz.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Cathy » 14 Sep 2018, 07:15

How can something have so many names?
When is Devon known as Belgium? When it's the name of a sandwich meat.
Known as Devon in many parts of Australia, it's called Belgium sausage in Tasmania, polony in Western Australia, Fritz in South Australia, Windsor sausage in Queensland, Strasburg in Victoria and Luncheon Meat in Britain.
German immigrants introduced it to South Australia in the 1800's. It was called German sausage until WW11 when all things German had to change their names, such as the German shepherd dog becoming an Alsatian.
Most Aussie kids would have tasted this meat, a lot of butchers offer the kids a slice when Mum is buying the weekly meat. Some even shape it into happy faces. :smile:
Being from SA it's always been Fritz to me.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 15 Sep 2018, 03:27

That's interesting Cathy.
I recently heard a discussion (I think it was on Woman's Hour) about Manchester being used as the name for cotton textiles in various parts of the world. I can attest to that.... In J C Penney's in LA the household textile department was called 'Manchester Goods' and they also had this section which made me laugh, over here it refers to genitals....

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 16 Sep 2018, 03:36

When I was a lad squints were not uncommon and we always said that someone who had one was 'Sken-eyed'. I wonder where that one came from....... Can't remember when I last heard it. Allied to this, a dog with one eye a different colour than the other was described as 'wall-eyed'. I still use that one. I like wall eyed dogs, they are different and in my experience have always been good dogs.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by PanBiker » 16 Sep 2018, 08:05

I know of and have used both terms. A variant is "what are you skenning at", for someone who is staring or has a fixed gaze.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 16 Sep 2018, 09:47

My step father used to use the expression 'skenning like a basket o' whelps' to describe someone with a squint. I've an idea we have looked at this before - and I found this reference from Accrington - skenning

Of course whelps has sometimes morphed into whelks, as is often the way with verbally transmitted phrases. :smile:

PS - not checked it but surely Scandinavian origin?
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 17 Sep 2018, 02:43

I had a furtle and the suggestion is that it comes from Denmark, they have the same word.....
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 18 Sep 2018, 05:46

David, 'skimp'. This is the best I could find..... "skimpy (adj.) 1842, from skimp (adj.) "scanty" (1775), which perhaps ultimately is from an early 18c. alteration of scrimp or a variant of scamp (v.). Related: Skimpiness."
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 19 Sep 2018, 03:47

It occurred to me this morning that 'beware' is almost certainly a short form of 'be aware'. Funny how I have never realised that before.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by plaques » 19 Sep 2018, 07:50

One of the golden oldies is the word 'goodbye' a contraction of God be with you, But life's not as simple as that here are some of the variants.

Variants Between 1400 and 1700
Gid be with you (1400-1499)
God be with thee (1400-1499)
God be with you (1500-1700)
God be with yee; God bwy ye; God bwy; (1576-1600)
God be with ye (1576-1650)
God b'wee; God b'wy; God b'w'you; God b'wi'you (1601- 1625)
God buy ye; God buy you; (1601-1625)
God buy (1601-1650)
God be w'you (1626-1650)
God-buy (1651-1675)
God by ye; God-buy (1651-1675)
God bi wi'you (1651-1675)
God b'w'y' (1676-1700)
Godbuy (1676-1700)

Then we have regional accents and all manner of phonetical changes. It goes on and on.

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 20 Sep 2018, 03:14

Then there is 'tara' or 'tata'.
Mantel reminds me that the origin of Hocus Pocus is a corruption of the Latin phrase in the Mass, 'Hoc est corpus meum', this is my body. Another similar corruption, used by conjurers and stage magicians was 'hax pax max Deus adimax'. Complicated stuff isn't it.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 20 Sep 2018, 09:00

Interesting. Here's something similar. Hokey Pokey Similar result - quite different origin. :smile:
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 20 Sep 2018, 09:44

Diverging a bit here but when Mrs Tiz's mother had an ice cream cornet she would never eat what she called the `pokey hat', the tip of the cornet. She'd once got to that bit and found a wasp in it! :smile:

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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 20 Sep 2018, 10:05

Having used the phrase a few moments ago - I thought it might be interesting to look into it.

It was. :smile:

I used to get a weekly email from this site World Wide Words, but the owner Michael Quinion, stopped doing it a while ago. That's a shame, but the archive is still there.

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PS. Don't you just love the self confidence, verging on pomposity, of the phrase -

"I can only assume that some wit invented it and attributed it to Punch to give it a patina of historical verisimilitude, "
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 21 Sep 2018, 02:49

Nice link David. I didn't understand many of the words in the first question.....
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 23 Sep 2018, 03:59

I used an old word this morning on another topic; 'strickle'. This was a stick coated with animal fat and an abrasive that was used to put a fine edge on a scythe after sharpening with a carborundum stone.
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Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 30 Sep 2018, 03:47

From a Scottish cobbler's bill dated 1840. 'Tackets' are mentioned and they refer to the tacks and brads used in shoe repair. There is another term, 'buds' but I don't know what that means, any ideas?
Last edited by Tizer on 30 Sep 2018, 09:16, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed show to shoe
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