DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 48814
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 11 Jan 2019, 03:04

Quite right David but the tautological phrase using 'worst' has become common usage these days. 'Least worse' would be OK I think.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10351
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 12 Jan 2019, 10:22

I've just read in a history book that `slut' had a different meaning in past centuries. No sexual connotation as now, instead it was used to refer to a woman who got dirty in her work, such as a lower servant, and often had a caring or friendly tone to it. Samuel Pepys said he had `an admirable slut for a maidservant'.

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 48814
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 13 Jan 2019, 04:21

I must be old fashioned Tiz, I still use it with that meaning.....
I remember going into a friends house once, there was a large occasional table in the hall. As she passed it she threw her long skirt over it to remove the dust and said "I'm a slut at heart really!" She was using exactly the archaic meaning!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10351
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 13 Jan 2019, 10:20

That history book I mentioned is all about Christmas and it's mind-boggling to see all the origins and derivations of Christmas-related words and activities. Here's just one German word that's made it's way elsewhere in various forms: Belsnickel
(The first para of that Wiki page provides another word new to me: hypocorism)

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 48814
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 14 Jan 2019, 03:27

Hypocorism..... I have been resisting posting any of the obscure words that re-reading of 'A History of Christianity' has thrown up! It looks as though theologians over the centuries have had to manufacture new words to describe each of them and it is bewildering.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
chinatyke
Donor
Posts: 2213
Joined: 21 Apr 2012, 13:14
Location: Pingguo, Guangxi, China

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by chinatyke » 14 Jan 2019, 03:56

Outshut kitchen. Stanley used this phrase in another posting and I had to look it up. I've never heard that kind of building being called anything other than an outhouse. Also known as a catslide, another new name to me.

User avatar
Cathy
Senior Member
Posts: 2336
Joined: 24 Jan 2012, 02:24

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Cathy » 14 Jan 2019, 05:10

Lately I've been hearing young children and young teenagers use the phrase 'very fun', as in It was very fun - It doesn't sound right. Something is great fun or a lot of fun, not very fun. I imagine their Teachers are not happy.
I know I'm in my own little world, but it's OK... they know me here. :)

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 48814
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 14 Jan 2019, 06:12

The use of the word 'very' in inappropriate places is cropping up all over the place. Very similar to the misuse of 'well' as in well good etc.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10351
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 14 Jan 2019, 10:25

Also people saying `I'm good' when they mean `I'm OK' or `I agree'.

China, to me a catslide is a sloping roofed extension on the side of a house where the roof is a continuation of the main house roof. if the outer side is open, e.g. entry for tractor or wagon, then it was a linhay.

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 8462
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by PanBiker » 14 Jan 2019, 10:46

OK, where does that come from?
Ian

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10351
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 14 Jan 2019, 12:38

`This is a lean-to shed with an open front. It’s mainly an English West Country word, from the counties of Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall. However, it has also been recorded in Northern Ireland and Northumberland, which suggests it derives from an ancient English word once more widely distributed. The Oxford English Dictionary tentatively suggests the Old English hlinian, to lean. A related West Country word, mowhay, means a stack-yard or other enclosure. A mow is a heap of some item, usually a useful crop such as hay, wheat, or barley (it seems to be related to words in Swedish and Norwegian but is otherwise obscure in origin). The second element is from Old English and means an enclosed space (it derives from the same root as hedge, which could at one time mean any enclosing barrier, not necessarily a row of bushes or small trees). So a linhay is a leaning enclosed space....'
Full article here: LINK

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 8462
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by PanBiker » 14 Jan 2019, 13:41

Interesting Tiz but I was referring to the short form representative word "OK". What does it actually stand for and where do we get it from?
Ian

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 48814
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 15 Jan 2019, 04:25

OK..... Have a look at THIS Ian and then take your pick!
China, I missed that post about outshut. It's a term used for an extension added to a building and is commonly used in describing vernacular architecture.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 8462
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by PanBiker » 15 Jan 2019, 10:51

So best guess on OK is a spelling mistake, sounds about right. :smile:
Ian

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3189
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 15 Jan 2019, 17:04

I got my explanation from a bottle of brown sauce which had the same name OK sauce. Not made any more but I think it said it was a corruption of all correct.

I liked Plaque's use of the phrase 'Lincoln odds' elsewhere. I know what he means but I doubt many more will. I guess in 20 - 30 years time no one will. :smile:

I noted octogenarian seat blocker Dennis Skinner MP used the phrase - 'he didn't know if he was on this earth or Fullers' in Parliament recently. I liked it. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 48814
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 16 Jan 2019, 03:09

If my memory serves me correctly I used to pass the disused racecourse at Lincoln occasionally. If I am right it was just a spectator's stand stood on an expanse of grass. Did they move it to Doncaster when the course closed in the 1960s?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

plaques
Donor
Posts: 3197
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by plaques » 16 Jan 2019, 12:34

Lincoln Odds. I'm not quite sure where this term originated from. It was something my dad used although he was a non-gambler. His father, born 1858, was a kettle of fish and could probably remember the 2 mile Lincoln races. The term was probably re-enforced by the fact that Abraham Lincoln was initially a 'Dark Horse' ie: very long odds candidate when he first started running for Presidency. Any ideas Tripps.

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3189
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 16 Jan 2019, 14:48

I take it to mean big odds.

The race - now at Doncaster - is run on the opening day of the flat season, is a very competitive and valuable handicap, and since traditionally there was no turf flat racing since the previous November, there was not a lot of recent form available. (This may have changed in recent years due to the increased popularity of 'All Weather' racing). Consequently there is not likely to be a heavily backed favourite.

As a big fan of Occam's razor - I'd dismiss any connection with Abe Lincoln. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3189
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 17 Jan 2019, 16:38

Here's a little gem -

Yorkshire Dictionary

I've only had a quick look, but there seems to be hours of innocent fun to be had. I could expand on 'bait' (not just food for horses), and 'back end' (also means Autumn/end of year).

I'll be back . . . .
PS.
I never knew this - :smile:
Treacle
This word derives ultimately from Greek but it was brought here by the Normans. Originally, it was the name given to a salve which was used as an antidote to poison and apparently made up of spices and drugs, in which sense it is on record in England from 1340 (OED).
Treacler
An apothecary, one who gave his patients ‘treacle’.

Now the jackpot - this confirms what I've seen occasionally elsewhere -
Tripherd - A 'trip' was a small flock of animals, especially goats and sheep, and Bolton Priory records contain several references to the animals and the related occupation.
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 48814
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 18 Jan 2019, 03:23

:good:
'Neatherd' was one who prevented deer straying from the Royal Forest and is said to be the origin of the name Nutter. Shepherd as a name origin is obvious, I can't think of anything derived from tripherd.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3189
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 18 Jan 2019, 10:49

Stanley wrote:
18 Jan 2019, 03:23
I can't think of anything derived from tripherd.
Try harder - I can. :laugh5:
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10351
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 18 Jan 2019, 16:07

Trippier! :interesting:

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 48814
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Stanley » 19 Jan 2019, 04:17

Well..... It's always a possibility of course but the Oxford Dictionary of Surnames favours either derived from Tripe Dresser and dealer or the ME 'Trippere', a dancer. There is also a suggestion that it could refer back to the old French 'tripot', an evil trick.
Then, digging further....

This surname is derived from an occupation. 'a tripherd,' a goatherd, Yorkshire and Lancashire. 'Trip, a flock of sheep, a herd of swine or goats' (Halliwell).
'Item, in pane pro triphyrdes sarculant indent,' 1305: Whitaker's Craven.
'Item pro geldherds, pro tripherds,' 1317: ibid.
The editor adds, 'Trip is a herd of goats, and has given origin to the surname yet remaining in Lancashire, Tripyer'; compare Tupper for Tupherd.
Walter Tripper, 1379: Poll Tax of Yorkshire.
Willelmus Tripper, 1379: ibid.
A Mrs. Trippier let lodgings at Seascale, Cumberland (1887).
[— A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames, written: 1872-1896 by Charles Wareing Endell Bardsley]

Here's a bit of bragging for you.... I have checked in my Latin Version of the Bolton Priory Compotus and the Whitaker reference is correct. :cool4:

(English)1 = Tripp (q.v.) + the English agential suff. -er- 2 for Tripherd, q.v.
(Anglo-French) the common French Trip(p)ier= 1 Tripe-Dealer [French tripier, from tripe, tripe (of Celtic orig.) + the agential suff. -ier] Tripier.—Celui qui vend en détail les issues des animaux tués à la boucherie.— Littré, Dict., ed. 1889.
2 Velveteen Maker or Dealer [from French tripe, imitation velvet, velveteen] Wallerand Colbert, trippier de velours (1570).—Godefroy.
[— Surnames of the United Kingdom (1912) by Henry Harrison]
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10351
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tizer » 19 Jan 2019, 12:31

I like the thought that Tripps might be descended from a dancing tripe dresser! :smile:

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 3189
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: DIALECT AND WORD MEANINGS

Post by Tripps » 19 Jan 2019, 21:18

Tizer wrote:
19 Jan 2019, 12:31
I like the thought that Tripps might be descended from a dancing tripe dresser!
:smile:

Thanks for that. i have most of what you quote, but it's nice to have it confirmed. I read the 'dancing' connection in a book in the Central Library in Manchester when I was at school, but I've never seen any reference to it since. Sounds possible. The gift hasn't been passed to me though. :smile:

I tried to make a list of everyone who ever had the name - and it's extensive, but not complete. I know it is not a common name, and I wondered whether a first name, date and place of birth, would be enough to separate them all. I found that it almost is, and that there are of course a lot of variations in spelling.

I decided that there was probably more than one derivation. It is definitely found in France, and I think the tripe connection is valid there, but I think the English version is more likely to be from the goat herds. There is some sign that French came to England, but not a lot. I get Huguenots mentioned a lot, but can't work out why they should all go to Rossendale area. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

Post Reply

Return to “General Miscellaneous Chat & Gossip”