POLITICS CORNER
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
It certainly looks that way doesn't it P and on the whole I think you're on the money. Nothing like a bleeding obvious bit of 'statesmanlike' where you are guaranteed a good reception in the House. Trust that bloody Corbyn to rain on her parade.....
I see Boris has told us that we needn't fear a Cold War..... How does he know these things.....?
Good lad Ian, get on with it, the sooner the better.
I quite enjoyed THIS report of the narrow victory gained by the Democrat candidate in Pennsylvania. Trump can bluster but the article is right, it's another nail in his coffin.
I see Boris has told us that we needn't fear a Cold War..... How does he know these things.....?
Good lad Ian, get on with it, the sooner the better.
I quite enjoyed THIS report of the narrow victory gained by the Democrat candidate in Pennsylvania. Trump can bluster but the article is right, it's another nail in his coffin.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
Everything seems to be going well except for the attempted murder in Salisbury........
See THIS BBC report about Jeremy Corbyn's Guardian article today in which he defends his attitude. Predictably there is a howl of outrage from all sides because he is warning, quite sensibly in my opinion, of the dangers of rushing to judgement on what could be flawed interpretation of what looks like the bleeding obvious. I suspect that the official view is probably correct but to base retaliation on a probability is not safe. It may well be that this flag-waving exercise comes back to bite some of the participants. One other area where Jeremy is right is when he warns of a creep towards Macarthysm because anybody who differs from the herd is branded a dissident, a red under the bed or even a traitor. This tendency is there for all to see. It was wrong in Nixon's day and it is wrong now. We need people who offer alternative views, very often they are eventually proved right. So you are right, I might not agree with the way Corbyn has done this but I defend his right to say what he believes is truth to power.
One other thought, does anyone imagine that the measures proposed will affect Putin in the slightest?
See THIS BBC report about Jeremy Corbyn's Guardian article today in which he defends his attitude. Predictably there is a howl of outrage from all sides because he is warning, quite sensibly in my opinion, of the dangers of rushing to judgement on what could be flawed interpretation of what looks like the bleeding obvious. I suspect that the official view is probably correct but to base retaliation on a probability is not safe. It may well be that this flag-waving exercise comes back to bite some of the participants. One other area where Jeremy is right is when he warns of a creep towards Macarthysm because anybody who differs from the herd is branded a dissident, a red under the bed or even a traitor. This tendency is there for all to see. It was wrong in Nixon's day and it is wrong now. We need people who offer alternative views, very often they are eventually proved right. So you are right, I might not agree with the way Corbyn has done this but I defend his right to say what he believes is truth to power.
One other thought, does anyone imagine that the measures proposed will affect Putin in the slightest?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
Sorry to go back to the current affair but did you see Boris directly accusing Putin in public yesterday? Not surprising that this provoked the Russian Foreign Office to come back immediately and go for Bo-Jo's throat. I'm sorry but no matter how sincere his beliefs are, it is wrong for our Foreign Secretary to voice them publicly. Diplomacy works best behind closed doors. Why are the Tories pushing this matter so hard?
There is another aspect to this matter that bothers me. As a general rule, whenever I hear politicians using fear as a persuader or wrapping themselves in the flag my crap detector starts to whine. Oscar Wilde said it was the last refuge of the scoundrel. Add to this the track record of this government for using these tactics to pull the wool over our eyes in other matters and I get very uneasy. Can any of us be certain where the truth lies here?
There is another aspect to this matter that bothers me. As a general rule, whenever I hear politicians using fear as a persuader or wrapping themselves in the flag my crap detector starts to whine. Oscar Wilde said it was the last refuge of the scoundrel. Add to this the track record of this government for using these tactics to pull the wool over our eyes in other matters and I get very uneasy. Can any of us be certain where the truth lies here?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
Not a lot going on is there..... I agree with the House Foreign Affairs committee who have warned that even with 21 months 'transition' if we haven't seen positive progress by October we should be looking at a longer period of adjustment. Jacob Rees Mogg of course disagrees and keeps rabbiting on about a 'vassal state'. If by that he means we shan't have 100% independence, he's right but that is an impossibility on a modern world. 'The bell tolls for thee' Jacob whether you like it or not.
I note that a few moderate voices are supporting Jeremy. Sensible, as one pointed out his track record on foreign affairs is good and consistent.
What the hell is Boris on. I see he has now stated unequivocally that 'Putin has stock piles of nerve gas'. Even if that were true, how can he possibly know this? Is he deliberately trying to provoke Russia?
There's a tactic in American football called 'running interference' which is sending a flying wedge of players down the pitch to confuse the opposing side while a secondary attack slips the ball though in the confusion. Is that what we are seeing here? Is the anti-Russia message being pushed to mask something else, like the complete deadlock of Brexit because there is no solution outside the Single Market to the problem of Irish borders and the Good Friday Agreement? My crap detector is whining.
On the same subject I was struck yesterday by a comment I heard from a member of the Welsh Assembly who said that apart from Ireland, one of the gaps in the process being noted was a complete lack of consultation with the devolved assemblies. That looks like a serious omission.
I note that a few moderate voices are supporting Jeremy. Sensible, as one pointed out his track record on foreign affairs is good and consistent.
What the hell is Boris on. I see he has now stated unequivocally that 'Putin has stock piles of nerve gas'. Even if that were true, how can he possibly know this? Is he deliberately trying to provoke Russia?
There's a tactic in American football called 'running interference' which is sending a flying wedge of players down the pitch to confuse the opposing side while a secondary attack slips the ball though in the confusion. Is that what we are seeing here? Is the anti-Russia message being pushed to mask something else, like the complete deadlock of Brexit because there is no solution outside the Single Market to the problem of Irish borders and the Good Friday Agreement? My crap detector is whining.
On the same subject I was struck yesterday by a comment I heard from a member of the Welsh Assembly who said that apart from Ireland, one of the gaps in the process being noted was a complete lack of consultation with the devolved assemblies. That looks like a serious omission.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
Big smiles all round in Brussels but the elephant in the room is still Ireland and the lack of any action on migration for another three years. Jacob is going to be really upset!
Barnier pours cold water on the parade by pointing out that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. This is only a small step on the way.
Barnier pours cold water on the parade by pointing out that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. This is only a small step on the way.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Re: POLITICS CORNER
Meanwhile a profound problem is being ignored worldwide - the public's distrust of conventional politicians and disengagement with democracy. I read an article describing how Russians feel about Putin and why they wish to support him. It could just as well have been a report on how Americans feel about Trump and want to support him. Probably also how many Brits came to support Farage and vote for UKIP. Somehow we need to restore confidence in politics and democracy. Sadly, I don't see it happening for a long time. Perhaps Earth will be invaded by aliens and they'll put us back on course! ![Smile :smile:](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smile :smile:](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
Quite right Tiz, couldn't agree more. It's the politician's fault. I have to think back to the pre-Thatcher era to find a politician I trusted and that was John Smith. I heard a re-run of Blair announcing that we were going to war against Iraq because of 'weapons of mass destruction' ....... Then there was the expenses scandal and it has all gone downhill from there. We have got to the stage now where blatant lies are peddled and corrections ignored. Look at yesterday's announcement that the inflation figure had dropped 0.2%, it has been greeted by the Tories like the Relief of Mafeking when everyone knows that real incomes are still falling for the bottom 85% of the population and an interest rate rise is still on the cards not to mention the Brexit Effect which is a complete unknown. Can anyone see any reasons to be cheerful?
Reports that Trump ignored his briefing notes when he rang Putin yesterday and congratulated him on winning his new term. Things have got so bad that while people are shocked, they are not surprised.
Reports that Trump ignored his briefing notes when he rang Putin yesterday and congratulated him on winning his new term. Things have got so bad that while people are shocked, they are not surprised.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Re: POLITICS CORNER
Carpetright and Kingfisher are the latest firms to start going belly up. In last Saturday's Times Philip Aldrick's article addressed the deficit and instability but his conclusions could be summed up as "God help us if we are at the end of an another economic cycle and go into recession".
On the news they said White House staff had put a notice by Trump's phone before the call saying `Do not apologize'. That gave me a vision of the Oval Office next time Kim-il Jon threatened the US. Trump 's desk with black box topped by a big red button and a notice by it saying `Do not press the button'. Will he or won't he?
On the news they said White House staff had put a notice by Trump's phone before the call saying `Do not apologize'. That gave me a vision of the Oval Office next time Kim-il Jon threatened the US. Trump 's desk with black box topped by a big red button and a notice by it saying `Do not press the button'. Will he or won't he?
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
There is little doubt that the High Street is in trouble Tiz but we are not hearing politicians saying anything about that. What strikes me about economic policies is that from 2101 onwards George Osborne was trumpeting the 'Economic Miracle' and yet real incomes were falling for everyone except the super-rich. Go figure.....
Later, once more Boris baffles me. He is now publicly comparing Putin to Hitler and the World Cup to the 1936 Olympic Games.... Why is he stoking the tension up in this matter daily? Could it be to reinforce T May's appearance in Brussels today where she is going to remind the EU of how dangerous Russia is? This of course reinforces her previous messages about the necessity of preserving intelligence links with the EU post Brexit.
Later, once more Boris baffles me. He is now publicly comparing Putin to Hitler and the World Cup to the 1936 Olympic Games.... Why is he stoking the tension up in this matter daily? Could it be to reinforce T May's appearance in Brussels today where she is going to remind the EU of how dangerous Russia is? This of course reinforces her previous messages about the necessity of preserving intelligence links with the EU post Brexit.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Re: POLITICS CORNER
May's promotion of her threatening attitude to Russia is playing perfectly into Putin's hands. It's just what he wants so he can say to the Russian public and the world at large `Britain is a threat and you need a strong man like me to protect you'. We'd be better to play it down and keep quiet about our thoughts and plans. Why are we making such a big fuss about Russian spies being attacked and killed in Britain, by Russians? They're spies, spies kill spies. Russians have always believed they have the right to eliminate their traitors in other countries. I know the spy's daughter and a policeman have been affected too but it's still not something to go to war about.
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
Re: POLITICS CORNER
Just to add another conspiracy theory to the list and muddy the issue even further. What if his daughter was so distraught by her father being a traitor that she smuggled in some of the nerve agent that he had stashed away while he was attached to the military that she was prepared to kill her own father? Why are the authorities taking such an interest in the car that picked her up from the airport? Not being a fully fledged spy she probably just made a complete mess of trying to poison him. Note! this theory has no basis in fact and should not be taken as remotely true.
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
Trouble is that these politicians are so bereft of ideas for meaningful policies that once they latch on to a 'good idea' or even a Cunning Wheeze, they stick to it like glue. That's how we got Cameron's Catastrophe!
As for the way the whole concept of 'war on terror' is being promoted (see memorial services in London yesterday), I know it's heresy but I think of the daily deaths from more mundane causes and how they mount up. If you want to control society, think up a good scare story like the fires of hell or WMD. That does it every time. Communism has always been a favourite. (Except when we needed them to win a war for us......)
Look at what we did to Afghanistan and the NW Frontier in the days of the Raj by fear of 'The Russian Bear'. All because we needed a buffer between Russia and India and this was long before the Revolution.
If there's trouble at home, wrap yourself in the flag, invent a threat and go patriotic.
As for the way the whole concept of 'war on terror' is being promoted (see memorial services in London yesterday), I know it's heresy but I think of the daily deaths from more mundane causes and how they mount up. If you want to control society, think up a good scare story like the fires of hell or WMD. That does it every time. Communism has always been a favourite. (Except when we needed them to win a war for us......)
Look at what we did to Afghanistan and the NW Frontier in the days of the Raj by fear of 'The Russian Bear'. All because we needed a buffer between Russia and India and this was long before the Revolution.
If there's trouble at home, wrap yourself in the flag, invent a threat and go patriotic.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Re: POLITICS CORNER
Bad news today. Trump has replaced McMaster with John Bolton. He's known for promoting attacks on Iran and North Korea. LINK I hope Trump will tire of him very quickly and that in the meantime there are enough wiser heads around Trump to keep Bolton in check. Otherwise it's tin hat time.
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
Re: POLITICS CORNER
Update on my last conspiracy. From the Guardian. Link. Quote. Counter-terrorism officials have given no details of how the Skripals may have come into contact with the nerve agent, which has been identified as a novichok.
There was speculation it could have been placed on the door handles of Skripal’s BMW or in the car’s ventilation system. Another suggestion is that Yulia Skripal, who arrived in the UK on a flight from Russia the day before she and her father collapsed, may have brought it into the country.
Remember, you read it on OG first.
There was speculation it could have been placed on the door handles of Skripal’s BMW or in the car’s ventilation system. Another suggestion is that Yulia Skripal, who arrived in the UK on a flight from Russia the day before she and her father collapsed, may have brought it into the country.
Remember, you read it on OG first.
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
I saw that report as well Tiz and share your misgivings.
David, the politicians rail against conspiracy theorists but they are the best ally for anyone using the 'fear' ploy.....
T May milking the anti-Russia theme as hard as she can and crowing about success on the transition but all she has is what the EU was going to suggest in the first place. No mention of Ireland or Gibraltar.........
David, the politicians rail against conspiracy theorists but they are the best ally for anyone using the 'fear' ploy.....
T May milking the anti-Russia theme as hard as she can and crowing about success on the transition but all she has is what the EU was going to suggest in the first place. No mention of Ireland or Gibraltar.........
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Re: POLITICS CORNER
A bit more comment on Trump in the aftermath of the Boldon appointment, on the Beeb's web site:
According to the New York Times, President Trump decamped to his ocean front estate in Palm Beach on Friday, after what it calls "another week of chaos" which "left heads spinning". West Wing staff apparently describe an atmosphere of "bewildered resignation" as they grapple with the task of "predicting and reacting in real time to the president's shifting moods". The Politico website talks of Mr Trump's aides being "at their wits ends" over his unpredictable behaviour which has staff "worried about their own credibility".
Owen Smith sacked from Labour's shadow cabinet because he wrote an article calling for a second vote on Brexit. This seems to confirm that Corbyn is a Eurosceptic. That sort of thing is going to lower Corbyn's rating in the eyes of young people.
According to the New York Times, President Trump decamped to his ocean front estate in Palm Beach on Friday, after what it calls "another week of chaos" which "left heads spinning". West Wing staff apparently describe an atmosphere of "bewildered resignation" as they grapple with the task of "predicting and reacting in real time to the president's shifting moods". The Politico website talks of Mr Trump's aides being "at their wits ends" over his unpredictable behaviour which has staff "worried about their own credibility".
Owen Smith sacked from Labour's shadow cabinet because he wrote an article calling for a second vote on Brexit. This seems to confirm that Corbyn is a Eurosceptic. That sort of thing is going to lower Corbyn's rating in the eyes of young people.
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
- PanBiker
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
It does not confirm that Jeremy Corbyn is a Eurosceptic as such, it's party policy. Perfectly acceptable to argue your point from the back benches. I'm fairly sure there will be many more that share various reservations of the way that Brexit is going. It's impossible to remain as a front bench member though if they choose to argue against adopted policy.
Ian
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
I know it's not very helpful but I have never known politics to be in such dire straits, everywhere I look!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Re: POLITICS CORNER
You may say that the politicians are playing politics. Cameron made a drastic mistake in thinking that the UK would vote 'remain'. Corbyn said that he was 70% remain, 30% leave. The country on a small majority voted leave, the poorer areas carrying the day. These were mainly Labour supporters. The Tories are now in big trouble trying to negotiate terms that will suit their own split party. A second referendum would probably be the most sensible thing to do but both Mrs May and Corbyn know that to suggest this approach would produce an avalanche of abuse in the rightwing press that would be negative for the party that made it their main platform. The game is now set that Mrs May is in an alligator ridden swamp and Corbyn is not going to help pull her out.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
Which is exactly what I predicted when the proverbial hit the fan in the first place. Poison chalice.
Ian
Re: POLITICS CORNER
I read in The Times that Nick Clegg has been stressing the need for a new, more centrist political party in the UK. The two main parties are pulling further apart and leaving a gap that needs filling. Politics has become too binary, too polarised. And neither of the main parties is going to get us out of the Brexit mess. I remember Matthew Parris writing an article saying that Remainers shouldn't be giving up and accepting Brexit, we should be pointing out the flaws in the referendum process and demanding at least another, better informed referendum or preferably a complete U-turn. We now need a new party to do this for us.
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
Re: POLITICS CORNER
I noticed this today Arlene Foster
I've been wondering what would happen after watching the whole of her appearance before a committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly. I thought then she'd be lucky to survive. Well the Assembly stopped, but when you are in charge of whether the whole UK government stands or falls and have their sensitive bits firmly in your grasp, and are not afraid to sqeeze very tightly, things get a whole lot easier for you.
There'll surely be a knighthood, at the very least, for the civil servant concerned.
I've been wondering what would happen after watching the whole of her appearance before a committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly. I thought then she'd be lucky to survive. Well the Assembly stopped, but when you are in charge of whether the whole UK government stands or falls and have their sensitive bits firmly in your grasp, and are not afraid to sqeeze very tightly, things get a whole lot easier for you.
![Smile :smile:](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
There'll surely be a knighthood, at the very least, for the civil servant concerned.
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- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
There's more to the Irish situation than meets the eye David. Somehow the DUP are being kept on side and it is costing us a lot of money. Phil never mentioned that.....
Not a word about anti terrorist activity in Salisbury now the town is complaining about visitor and retail trade being damaged by it.
Obvious conclusion, go Corbyn Bashing!
Meanwhile Boris ditches the rules on comments on matters that are sub judice to tell us the accusations of illegal spending by Leave! are ridiculous. PE has been giving the details of how the scam was worked for months..... They have dug up some very interesting linkages and funding sources.
Not a word in all this circus of how the Brussels talks are going..... Ireland and Gibraltar don't exist......
Only a year to go come Thursday until we cut the anchor chain and drift off into the Atlantic........
Trump and Stormy Daniels..... Need I say more?
Not a word about anti terrorist activity in Salisbury now the town is complaining about visitor and retail trade being damaged by it.
Obvious conclusion, go Corbyn Bashing!
Meanwhile Boris ditches the rules on comments on matters that are sub judice to tell us the accusations of illegal spending by Leave! are ridiculous. PE has been giving the details of how the scam was worked for months..... They have dug up some very interesting linkages and funding sources.
Not a word in all this circus of how the Brussels talks are going..... Ireland and Gibraltar don't exist......
Only a year to go come Thursday until we cut the anchor chain and drift off into the Atlantic........
Trump and Stormy Daniels..... Need I say more?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
- Stanley
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Re: POLITICS CORNER
The spy scare...... Boris says he wants to 'normalise' relations after doing all he can to stoke the fire. Mrs May is credited with a diplomatic triumph as diplomats are sent home around the world. At the same time there is a concerted attack on Corbyn on the anti-semitic problem. What on earth is going on?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net
"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
Re: POLITICS CORNER
Remember a country always needs an ENEMY. ( one of George Orwell's themes in 1984) Ever since the last cold war we have tried a number of different ideas but they never took off so we are back to the cold war. Capitalism V Communism with the rightwing press pushing hard to label Corbyn a commie.
An anti-semitic stance always draws a lot of sympathy and quite rightly so. Intentionally upsetting religious or racial groups for no other reason than to be cruel and bigoted deserves to be highlighted.
An anti-semitic stance always draws a lot of sympathy and quite rightly so. Intentionally upsetting religious or racial groups for no other reason than to be cruel and bigoted deserves to be highlighted.