Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Big Kev]

It's good to read unsensationalised information, thank you

[Sue]

Journalists search for the negative worse news related example they can and then present it as the norm, in so doing hiding the real issues. Also they are obsessed with whatever we are doing is wrong and what other countries are doing is right.

Take face-masks for example, everyday we get questions about why other countries are using them so why aren’t we. The answer is always we are being led by science. I have done extensive research on this, there is NO concrete evidence that face masks work to any great extent most cotton ones do not. Without correct filters they do little to prevent the spread of the disease, they have a marginal effect. There has been little or no information given to the public that a filter is needed and what an appropriate filter could be. There is some limited evidence that asymptomatic people may not spread the disease if wearing a mask, but they are the very ones who may toss their mask to one side to use again , because they think it has not been contaminated because they have no symptoms.

France is going to go down the optional route except on public transport. The continuous questions by the journalists convince the general public that the decision being made in the UK is the incorrect one. I think they will go down the optional route too. That way everyone is happy, but I just hope proper guidance for use, reuse and disposal are promoted, otherwise casually removed face masks can be a major source of contamination. Think of all those rubber gloves left abandoned in the countryside. When I think how extensive my training was as a bacteriologist to ensure cross contamination did not happen in the lab.

They are also obsessed every night with telling a heart rending story about someone who has died. Why should one family have their story told. All 20 000 plus people should be honoured if thats the right word or none at all. Its all about emotive persuasion. I detest it.

[plaques]

Both Mrs P and myself are now each the proud possessors of one of Sally's face masks. Clearly identified as not of surgical quality but if the general government advice is to wear one then we will do so. If nothing else it sends a message to everyone that you are playing your part and that you have their well being in mind to minimise the risk. All very psychological but if it gets you into the right frame of mind that you have a responsibility to look after yourself and others I'll go along with it. Actually I'm in favour of opening up schools and other controllable areas but equally I can see that for some it will be open season to ditch all the controls and create a virus 'free for all'.

[Sue]

We too will wear them if it helps us get home, we shall use the ones Bob has. Coffee filters are apparently reasonable filters If placed between two layers of fabric a bit like a pocket.

[PanBiker]

The ones Sally has sewn are triple layer with facing in the middle.

[Stanley]

I have two of them ready for use if and when they are compulsory. Otherwise I rely on avoiding people as much as possible. I temper that, perhaps unwisely, in that I let the Sparks into the house last Thursday but the net result of his being here for 4 hours was a great enough benefit to justify any slight risk in my view.
I agree with you Sue about the exploitation of grief and crocodile tears. I also agree with the NHS nurse who when asked about people going out on the streets to clap said she would rather they spent the energy on communicating with their MP and complaining about staff not getting proper support with PPE and wages.

[Sue]

I am perfectly happy for voluntary use but feel scientific evidence is not good enough to make it compulsory. I think the triple layer sounds good plaques. As well as coffee filters I read that cotton for quilting is more opaque than dressmaking fabric and is thus better. Apparently two layers of jersey T shirting has a slight filtering effect. I liked the sound of the coffee filter so If I had had to make masks I Would have inserted one as a filter.
In a pocket type mask. My sewing teacher sent me a pattern

Its a sign of things progressing in France that masks can be bought from today at the pharmacists. Previously they could be fined for selling them to the public. They are saying that they expect a second peak a d a further confinement period later in the year. Schools go back on May 18 th but many parents are refusing to send their children. The graphs in France have dropped dramatically over the last few days (although still higher than the UK) .

[Stanley]

Difficult to weigh up isn't it Sue. Think what it's like for us non biologists!
To escape Covid19 I am listening to A Life Scientific, on String Theory.... More chance of enlightenment there than in epidemiology!

[Tizer]

Sue, here's something that might trigger a memory for you. I keep hearing mutterings that `this virus will be with us forever' yet I was taught many decades ago that there was a process called natural attenuation of viruses; you may have been taught the same concept. I've heard nothing of this in the current pandemic. For those who are not familiar with the concept it involves the gradual alteration of the virus strain's genetic material as it passes through consecutive hosts. This occurs by natural mutation of DNA/RNA. For each change there is a much higher probability that it reduces virulence than increases it. For an analogy consider a computer making random changes to the words in a book - degradation is much more likely than improvement. When I search for viral attenuation on the web I find little about the natural process but a great deal about deliberate (artificial) attenuation which is one of the methods used to make vaccines. Of course this virus is new and we haven't had time to see the degree to which it will attenuate naturally, but the process will happen as it passes though increasing numbers of victims. I found this abstract which refers to the process: LINK

[Big Kev]

I had to read the link twice but I think I understand it

[Sue]

Interesting Tizer. Also here is some recent work on home made masks


Attenuation was how they used to make vaccines, I don’t know if they still do. The virus retained its antigenic properties so the body made antibodies but it lost its ability to cause disease symptoms

https://www.sciencealert.com/if-you-re- ... als-to-use

[Tizer]

Back in 1969 when I was working on the A/Tokyo and A/Hong Kong influenza viruses they were being grown up in hens eggs and then the egg allantoic fluid was harvested to make the vaccine. It had to be treated to attenuate the virus, then the fluid was spun in Sharples centrifuges to concentrate it before going to the ampoule filling line. The attenuation was by addition of a small amount of a chemical called beta propriolactone. My mate worked in the influenza vaccine production unit and was responsible for administering the right amount of the right chemical. A big responsibility for a technician in his 20s but he was a good choice, solid as a rock. His dad was in charge of all the forestry equipment for the Forest of Dean so he came from a good background!

[Sue]

Back in 1969 when I was working on the A/Tokyo and A/Hong Kong influenza viruses they were being grown up in hens eggs and then the egg allantoic fluid was harvested to make the vaccine. It had to be treated to attenuate the virus, then the fluid was spun in Sharples centrifuges to concentrate it before going to the ampoule filling line. The attenuation was by addition of a small amount of a chemical called beta propriolactone. My mate worked in the influenza vaccine production unit and was responsible for administering the right amount of the right chemical. A big responsibility for a technician in his 20s but he was a good choice, solid as a rock. His dad was in charge of all the forestry equipment for the Forest of Dean so he came from a good background!

Very interesting. I remember the egg situation. Measles vaccines were made like that and my daughter was allergic to eggs and couldn’t be vaccinated. Of course she got measles and was very ill indeed.

[Stanley]

Fascinating stuff and as far as I can see a viable vaccine is the only thing that will make it safe for me to go anywhere. They are talking about getting things like regular cancer treatments back on track but even if they do I shall refuse them. I reckon at my age I am in greater danger from the virus than the cancer. Also, all this talk about Covid-free treatment centres. How can they guarantee that? How do they know some of the patients aren't asymptomatic or carriers? Then there's the small matter of travelling to the venue, how do you do that in safety?
This virus changes everything and I don't think the scale of the consequences has sunk in yet.

[Tizer]

Here's a good article from James Gallagher, the BBC's Health and science correspondent, explaining what we know and don't know so far on covid immunity...
`Coronavirus immunity: Can you catch it twice?' LINK [Link fixed]

Also there's a lot being said in the media at the moment about covid infection testing (i.e. testing to see whether you're carrying the virus or not) but little said about the fact that you could pass the test as uninfected at 10am today but catch it at 3.00pm in the afternoon and go on to infect lots of other folk. Just because someone has had a desirable negative result don't assume they are still free of the virus.

[PanBiker]

The URL in the link is missing Tiz.

[Sue]

Also there's a lot being said in the media at the moment about covid infection testing (i.e. testing to see whether you're carrying the virus or not) but little said about the fact that you could pass the test as uninfected at 10am today but catch it at 3.00pm in the afternoon and go on to infect lots of other folk. Just because someone has had a desirable negative result don't assume they are still free of the virus.

I have been saying that from Day 1 Tiz. .

[Tizer]

The URL in the link is missing Tiz.

Thanks, I've corrected it now. A case of brain fade!

[Stanley]

Sue and Tiz are both right. Mick and Susan are both certified as free of the virus now and can go back to work at the care homes but they agree not to visit me in case they are carrying it. The test is like an MOT certificate, goof for when the test was done but no further guarantee.
I get the impression the politicians are preparing us fro bad news from the care homes.
(LINK)

[Sue]

Sue and Tiz are both right. Mick and Susan are both certified as free of the virus now and can go back to work at the care homes but they agree not to visit me in case they are carrying it. The test is like an MOT certificate, goof for when the test was done but no further guarantee.
I get the impression the politicians are preparing us fro bad news from the care homes.
(LINK)

Expected we didn’t need preparing. It is the most at risk community . Figures still not as high as France in that respect too. We had a friend in a care home once locally. She used to keep falling with undiagnosable dizzy spells. Anyway it was not safe for her to live at home so was in a care home or as I prefer the french name a maison de retraite. Oh what a dismal dreary, depressing place. When I taught Health and Social Care years ago I used to visit our students on placements at Care homes. What palaces compared to the one here!

[Sue]

Its a very sad reality that the people most hit by this tragedy will be those in care homes

Many have underlying major health issues
Age
Many have poor personal hygiene so WASH YOUR HANDS is not a viable solution
Many will reject the protective measures pit in place for them out of fear
They may be frightened by too much PPE
They are constantly visited by the outside community

All the PPE and protective measures possible will not change this vulnerability.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52188820

[Stanley]

Unfortunately all that's true Sue. You can't 'lock down' a care home any more than a hospital and so there is always the danger of unwanted contact. That's why I have made up my mind that I am not going to go to any medical facility for any treatment until there is a proven vaccine. Picking up the virus is a far bigger risk than any I face in terms of my general health. If I stop feeling well and get symptoms then I will have a rethink but I never forget my age, something could get me quite soon and make all my decisions for me!

[plaques]

It doesn't take a genius to know that if you group vulnerable people together then once the virus strikes then all the group are at risk including the carers. Why has it taken four months for this simple fact to sink in?
Stanley I think you're going over the top refusing any official medical care treatment. The staff will be well aware of the problems and work areas / waiting rooms will be all set up to avoid cross infection. You're main problem is getting there. I'm sure that later in the game it can be done even if it means going a bit extreme with sprays, masks etc.

[PanBiker]

Why has it taken four months for this simple fact to sink in?

Particularly as they had the perfect storm example of Italy where it took out thousands of old but extremely healthy folk due to their diet regime. If it had the potential to kill the fit elderly, those predominately sedentary in care homes have no chance.

That's why I have made up my mind that I am not going to go to any medical facility for any treatment until there is a proven vaccine.

I will be testing the NHSBT regime this afternoon. I don't have any worries as I have read and digested the extra triage and operational methods they have put into place at the sessions. Blood banks are low and only work on a 10 day supply knife edge at the best of times when all 4% of regular donors turn up. The service like any other has been hit with folk staying away. I feel well enough and can tick all the boxes so will support.

[plaques]

Going back to the cygnus report where it pointed out that if 50% of the population contracted this virus then this would apply equally to care workers. We are now seeing that this simple logic is further aggravated by the fact that some ethnic groups may be at a bigger risk than others.
NHS staff from black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds will be given different roles away from the frontline under plans to reduce their disproportionately high death rate from Covid-19. Identified under the acronym BAME. This is going to put the NHS under extreme pressure since we rely heavily on foreign workers. I think Preti Patel is going to have to reign back on her plan to limit these workers. Total nonsense, she's just trying to get on the Trump bandwagon of blaming immigrants for the austerity failings.